Spring Roll, Egg Roll, Salad Roll

[gfron1]

So, I have a customer who insists that our rice paper wrappers, which are

labeled Spring Roll Wrappers, are NOT spring roll wrappers. According to

him, they've been mislabeled by the company, and are actually "salad roll"

wrappers. Spring rolls, he says, are made with paper-thin wrappers similar

to egg roll wrappers, and not with rice paper. Rice paper is only used for

salad rolls.

When I search for spring roll wrappers on Google, all I get are hits for

rice paper. Same thing if I search for salad rolls. So, is there some truth

to this guys snootiness about our rice paper "spring roll" wrappers? Or is

he just nuts?

Here is a site with the same wrappers that we have: Wrapper

[Shaya]

gfron1, I am not surprised by your question. I have the same wrappers you show, and I find when I make salad rolls, they are just perfect.

However, when I use the same wrappers to make spring rolls (i.e. fried) they turn out a bit sticky, and not at all that fragile crispy texture I have in restaurants.

Needless to say I am as curious as you are to see a response to this quandry!

[Dejah]

gfron1: Your customer is correct. The wrappers shown in the link you provided are rice paper used for "salad rolls". The confusion comes from people calling them "spring rolls". Some people call them "summer rolls" but salad roll probably best describes these as they hold raw ingredients like a salad. These are dry discs and are sold in the grocery section. They must be moistened with warm water before wrapping. These rolls are eaten fresh. I have heard someone saying that you can deep fry them, but from Shaya's results, I don't think they worked well.

The spring rolls that shaya described, with the delicate crispy texture are made with wheat flour wrappers. They are often called lumpia in recipe books (took me a long time to find out what lumpia was). These are sold in the freezer section and labelled Spring Roll Wrappers. They must be thawed completely, pulled apart very carefully, and used to wrap cooked fillings. These are best made then deep fried immediately.

[sanrensho]

Here's some information I found on Google, confirming that there are two types of Vietnamese banh trang.

http://www.geocities.com/emaildaneng/vietricewrapper.html

As Dejah mentioned, there are plenty of references that refer to Vietnamese salad rolls as "spring rolls," hence the confusion.

Edited September 19, 2006 by sanrensho (log)

[Pam R]

I sell this company's springroll wrappers. (Hold your pointer over Spring-roll wrappers and the picture will appear on the right). They're a frozen products - much different from rice paper.

[gfron1]

Now that we seem to have the answer I'd like to wrap this thread up. This does answer it, and I do have the frozen ones as well. I've always told customers the warm water variety are the non-fried spring rolls (so thanks for clearing that up), and that the frozen wrappers were for fried spring rolls (we thought it was a difference between Vietnamese v. Thai). Added to the list are egg roll wrappers, wonton skins, gyoza skins...Sounds like a good theme for a toga party! I'll roll over now and let someone else reply!

[sheetz]

I have always heard the "salad roll" type things called Vietnamese spring rolls. Never heard them called "salad rolls" before, although that's a good way to describe them. The fried type of spring rolls are Chinese. Lumpia is the Philipino version of the Chinese spring roll.

[gfron1]

The spouse is asking me to ask (because he refuses to get on the EGullet bandwagon)...what would happen if you used phyllo dough for (fried) spring rolls - both are wheat and thin.

[aprilmei]

In Vietnam, they sell extraordinarily thin rice paper wrappers for fried spring rolls. I've never found them outside Vietnam so I stock up on them whenever I go there (going there again in December - hooray!). I store them in the wine fridge (not sure why; it just seems they'd keep better for longer when cool. I still have some from my last trip - about 18 months ago - and they're still fine). They're very thin - and what's best, they're pliable, not brittle. You don't have to soak or dampen them in order to make them pliable; they just wrap without cracking/breaking. When fried, the wrapper is crisp and delicate.

[Dejah]

In Vietnam, they sell extraordinarily thin rice paper wrappers for fried spring rolls. I've never found them outside Vietnam so I stock up on them whenever I go there (going there again in December - hooray!).

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Any chance of seeing a picture of these wrappers, aprilmei?

[Lilija]

I've seen the things using rice paper wrappers, on some menus, labeled as "fresh spring rolls" which took me by suprise...

So, maybe it's a regional thing? I've seen the thing in the picture up there labeled as both a "fresh spring roll" and a "salad roll".

[aprilmei]

In Vietnam, they sell extraordinarily thin rice paper wrappers for fried spring rolls. I've never found them outside Vietnam so I stock up on them whenever I go there (going there again in December - hooray!).

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Any chance of seeing a picture of these wrappers, aprilmei?

←

I'm digital camera incompetent (I can only take very bad, fuzzy pictures) but I'll attempt it and ask my boyfriend to try to upload the pix. If we have any "regular" rice paper wrappers in the house I'll try to show the difference.

And Sheetz, the fried spring rolls are not just Chinese, although the Vietnamese version may stem from the Chinese influence in Vietnam. But the Vietnamese spring rolls are completely different from the Chinese ones my grandmother used to make. The Chinese ones use a wheat wrapper; the Vietnamese spring rolls - at least the ones I've eaten in Vietnam - use rice paper.

[aprilmei]

Okay, I tried to take some pictures of the wrappers but as usual, they're awful (the pix, I mean). But now I'm confused because the packet - which of course is written in Vietnamese, has a drawing of a stalk of something but I can't tell if it's wheat or rice. Perhaps one of our Vietnamese-speaking members can help translate. In large letters it says "banh da nem". At the top of the pack it says "hang xuat khau - chat luong cao", at the bottom of the pack it says "Thanh Phan: bot gao, nuoc, muoi an nacl" (sorry I can't put the accent and other marks above the letters).

Anyway, since I couldn't take a picture I'll have to describe how thin these wrappers are. A packet of 16 weighed only 32 grams; a packet of Thai rice paper wrappers - the same number but slightly smaller in diameter - weighed 98 grams. The Vietnamese wrappers are so pliable I was able to fold it right in half - it left a crease but the wrapper didn't break. I left them at room temperature for about 30 minutes and they were still pliable, unlike the Thai wrappers which became more brittle. The Vietnamese wrappers have a slightly oily feel; they're shiny on one side and matte on the other.

I should also add that the Vietnamese wrappers are perfectly smooth, without any pattern; the Thai wrappers have a a criss-cross pattern (not sure how to describe it) - is that because they were dried on a basket?

Edited September 20, 2006 by aprilmei (log)

[nakji]

Sorry - are your wrappers rectangular or round?

In my experience here in Hanoi, the rectangular ones are served with what people upthread are calling salad rolls. That is, they are left uncooked, not dipped in water, and are used to wrap around lettuce, herbs, beef and various salad-y things like fresh bean sprouts and pineapple cores.

According to my handy Lonely Planet: World Food Vietnam, banh da means rice pancake and nem means - well, what I call a spring roll, but here are just called "nem ran" - these are fried.

The ingredients

From the Lonely Planet:

"bot gao: rice flour made from long-grain rice - different from glutinous rice flour , which is made from sweet rice."

Nuoc is water

muoi an nacl is salt.

Don't know if that sheds any light on the matter, I'm afraid. If it helps, I can hit the supermarket tomorrow for some comparison shopping.

[aprilmei]

These papers are round and about 6-7" in diameter. I also saw the rectangular wrappers in the markets but didn't buy any.

I believe that fried spring rolls have two different names depending on which part of Vietnam you live in.

[Domestic Goddess]

In the Philippines we have the pliable spring rolls that can be eaten without cooking (frying that is) or fried with fillings that can range from ground pork, vegies, chicken or caramelized plantains (a popular snack called banana turon). Our wrappers are called "lumpia". Lumpia is basically filipino for spring roll and are usually available in dinner plate sizes.

[chow guy]

I think many folks call the rolls you mention, spring rolls, but... they're actually called "summer rolls". Spring roll wrappers need to be sturdier and thicker because they're deep fried.

The thin rice wrappers with the rose on the package are my favorite brand for summer rolls. They're sturdier than all the other brands, they sell at Ta Lin... and I've tried em all.

[aprilmei]

Gfron, what kind of cuisine does your restaurant serve? That would help clarify things. Because if it's a Vietnamese restaurant, for fried spring rolls you would ideally be using the very thin rice paper wrappers I described, but they might be difficult to find in the States. I've looked at places like 99 Ranch and they don't have them. I have to stress, they're NOT the type that need to be soaked - they're completely pliable straight out of the packet. When fried, they become almost transparent - you can see some of the ingredients inside the roll. And the texture is very delicately crisp.

If your restaurant serves Chinese/Philippine food, then I think you would want to use the wheat wrappers described by Dejah. But then if your rolls taste good and you and your customers are happy with them, use what you want and maybe call it something else.

btw, back in the days of my "yout" (anyone remember My Cousin Vinnie?) we used to call the Chinese version egg rolls, not spring rolls.

[gfron1]

Sorry for the confusion - we're specialty food store, not a restaurant, and we're in a very small town, trying to accomodate many food needs with a limited inventory. This is more about curiosity than anything else.

[ZenKimchi]

Well, it's not your fault how the factory labels its packages. Maybe you could take advantage of this and make a promotion.

"Salad roll wrappers disguised as spring roll wrappers! Discover the mystery!"