Do not eat that bagged spinach!

[cinghiale]

Spinach farmers in New Jersey, the country's fourth-largest spinach producer, are getting hit hard -- and are pissed: The FDA's alarm is extreme, area farmers say, and threatens their harvest this month.

I found this information quite surprising, not to say disturbing:

The FDA says the strain of E. coli is so virulent that no amount of washing or cooking raw spinach at home will ensure safety.

[JohnL]

That's the first sensible (and illuminating) article I've read since the whole thing began.  Please thank your husband for me, and thank you, too, for posting it. 

You know, when I took high school biology, they were always quite clear about how dark, damp anaerobic environments were the ideal breeding grounds for bacteria ...

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"Illuminating" yes it was.

However--I would not put any money on one man's opinion (informed as it may be).

The fact is--people ate spinach and got sick.

Leafy greens are the number two source of e-coli.

(ground beef is number one).

There have been over twenty outbreaks of e-coli traced to leafy greens from

the salinas valley in the last ten years

The production of leafy greens is not very regulated (nowhere near as closely as the beef industry).

The FDA and the CDC are investigating this particular outbreak.

Until they are reasonably certain of the cause and the source--it is common sense to avoid

spinach--bagged or otherwise--organic or otherwise.

I would also welcome a cessation of the knee jerk reactions and speculation of many who have an axe to grind.

until we have some idea as to how this outbreak came to be.

[duckduck]

I see your quote in the article, cinghaile, but I see the opposite info on the fda website. This is what is says on the FDA website.

"As stated above, the FDA is currently recommending that the public not consume fresh (uncooked) spinach or salad blends containing fresh spinach. However, E. coli O157:H7 in spinach can be killed by cooking at 160 degrees Fahrenheit for 15 seconds. If consumers choose to cook the spinach they should follow these cooking instructions and also remember to take steps to avoid cross-contamination of the fresh spinach with other foods and food contact surfaces and to wash hands, utensils, and surfaces with hot, soapy water before and after handling the spinach. "

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/spinacqa.html

Edited September 21, 2006 by duckduck (log)

[ghostrider]

I think discarding the spinach is definitely the way to go. Although cooking it may very well destroy whatever E. coli is in the spinach at the time it hits pasteurization temperature, there are also handling concerns. For example, if you take the spinach out of the bag with your hands, you can get E. coli on your hands. Then, whatever else you handle in the kitchen is at risk, or you may transmit it hand to mouth. Likewise, you may use a spoon or other utensil on the spinach before it has reached pasteurization temperature, and then you may use that spoon in something else.

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This is a very good point that I hadn't considered before. It should also be disseminated as a major rationale for just throwing the bags away. Without this rationale though, the instruction gives the false impression, IMO, that under no circumstances would cooked spinach be safe to eat if it has been contaminated. That is simply inaccurate. FG's eplanation makes a lot of sense, however, as to why someone should not attempt to cook the stuff.

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Well, I think it makes sense if you are handling the spinach with less care than you'd apply to raw chicken breasts. If we have to proect those people, fine. But everything Steven mentions would occur to me automatically if I were dealing with a bag of spinach at this point.

There is new info on the FDA website as of yesterday. The link above is well worth rechecking, particularly if you live in WA, OR, ID or MT; there's a new list of contaminated products that don't mention spinach in their brand names - e.g., "Tabouli & Goat Cheese Salad, QFC ."

Curiously, with the 9/22 update, the FDA has removed the info quoted above, re cooking spinach to destroy E. coli & avoiding cross-contamination, from their webpage on the outbreak. This is the kind of thing that makes it harder to trust any source of information these days; why, with no explanation, would they remove what seemed to be sensible and detailed advice?

Edited September 23, 2006 by ghostrider (log)

[duckduck]

Here's the info that replaced it.

"What is FDA's new consumer advice regarding the consumption of spinach?

Spinach implicated in the current outbreak was grown in the California counties of Monterey, San Benito, and Santa Clara only. Spinach from the rest of the U.S. has not been implicated in the current E. coli O157:H7 outbreak. The public can be confident that spinach grown in the non-implicated areas can be consumed.

Processed spinach, including frozen and canned spinach, is not implicated in this outbreak."

From the same link as above.

[snowangel]

So, I had a spinach salad for dinner last night. Pulled from my garden, roots and all. Seriously washed, then trimmed. It was yummy. I think the advice that you need to watch where it comes from is to be heeded. Not all spinach is tainted.

[johnsmith45678]

Alton Brown weighs in on the spinach e. coli outbreak:

http://altonbrown.com/adventure/knowledge/edible_news.html

His answer seems to be locally grown. I don't think I agree with him:

- This could just as easily happened with a local grower (and if you have many many more local growers, you'd think smaller, local e. coli flare-ups would happen more often than larger nation-wide ones).

- I like having produce year-round, damnit!

- Martin Sheen was in Apocalypse Now, not Charile.

Edited September 25, 2006 by johnsmith45678 (log)

[Mimi Sheraton]

Local is fine for many reasons, but everyplace is local somewhere...including environs of the Calif. farms where the tainted spinach is believed to have come from.

Sadly, organic may be part of the problem as discussed in NYTimes today..insufficiently sanitized manure fertilizer....

Bags are also part of the problem..sealed bags, that is...less so the open bags seen at many farmer's markets. Still, selecting from bulk is always better....

[Mimi Sheraton]

And, come to think of it, it's no wonder Popeye ate canned spinach as devotess of that cartoon may recall...His theme song "I fight to the finish, 'cause I eat my spinach, I'm Popeye-the-sailorman.." may have new, macabre meaning.

[JohnL]

Alton Brown weighs in on the spinach e. coli outbreak:

http://altonbrown.com/adventure/knowledge/edible_news.html

His answer seems to be locally grown. I don't think I agree with him:

- This could just as easily happened with a local grower (and if you have many many more local growers, you'd think smaller, local e. coli flare-ups would happen more often than larger nation-wide ones).

- I like having produce year-round, damnit!

- Martin Sheen was in Apocalypse Now, not Charile.

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To add some perspective.

Considering the total amount of spinach produced (in California alone)

and considering the total number of people who eat raw spinach--I would say that

the percentage of people who are seriously ill is quite low.

(certainly this is of little comfort to those who have gotten seriously ill and especially to those

relative few who have died.)

The current system seems to be working. The FDA, the USDA the farmers and the packagers and retailers as well as the media got the word out and are taking appropriate action.

Could the system be better. obviously there are always room for improvements.I am sure that spinach growing and production/distribution will be carefully looked at.

Right now we can get very good quality fresh spinach year round thanks to the long growing season in California.

Growing spinach locally will not remove the risk (it may reduce the scale of that risk) and it will certainly involve higher prices and doing without fresh spinach most of the year.

It may make it even more difficult to recognize problems and to monitor production.

In the end, there is risk reward involved.

If one eats raw food items then unless those items contain preservatives or are treated some way then one risks getting a bacterial infection.

This holds true for most everything. From oysters and clams on the half shell to vegetables and greens to meat.

There are trade offs.

Our pleasure--raw oysters are indeed a wonderful taste experience--vs health concerns.

So the industries that produce food items adapt methods of production (from growth to packaging to retail) and the government establishes guidelines and laws all with an eye toward providing safe food.

It is rational and logical to expect that these people "guarantee" with absolute certainty that all our food is safe to eat raw all the time?

or

Should we be aware of the risk and simply act accordingly.

Should small children or weak or already infirm people be eating any raw foods?

I would like to think that adults are capable of making their own risk reward assessments and decisions for themselves and their families.

The title of this thread should be:

"Do not eat that RAW spinach!--unless you have considered the risk!"

The fact is--it is much (a thousandfold?) safer eating anything raw or cooked today than 100 years ago.

Edited September 25, 2006 by JohnL (log)

[johnsmith45678]

California? I thought they'd tracked the tainted spinach to Wisconsin.

[robyn]

Alton Brown weighs in on the spinach e. coli outbreak:

http://altonbrown.com/adventure/knowledge/edible_news.html

His answer seems to be locally grown. I don't think I agree with him:

- This could just as easily happened with a local grower (and if you have many many more local growers, you'd think smaller, local e. coli flare-ups would happen more often than larger nation-wide ones).

- I like having produce year-round, damnit!

- Martin Sheen was in Apocalypse Now, not Charile.

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I don't agree with him. I live in a big agricultural state - Florida - but climates impose limits. Spinach is a cool weather crop - and there simply isn't a lot of cool weather in Florida. Sure - we get some "cool" in winter - but locally - in north Florida - where we get the most "cool" - we get hard freezes too. Not an ideal climate for even a back yard grower. It would be like telling people in New York to grow their citrus locally (sure - given ideal conditions on your porch - and if you pulled your trees inside at the first signs of frost - you might be able to grow an orange or two). We live in a big country - with a lot of different climates - and I personally enjoy all that our country has to offer in terms of food. Robyn

[stringcheese]

California? I thought they'd tracked the tainted spinach to Wisconsin.

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Many of the cases occurred in Wisconsin (in fact, the first confirmed death was in my town), but the spinach itself was tracked back to CA (Natural Selection/Earthbound Farms).

Incidentally, our local health department has determined that there was a concurrent series of E. coli cases that were *not* linked (epidemiologically or genetically) to the spinach cases. Makes me wonder how prevalent these cases might actually be...

[Sentiamo]

There is a wonderful article about this spinach situation, written by the ex owner of Natural Selections farm, on Chez Pim's blog.

Sorry, I have to dash off and havent time to get the link but Im sure you all will know where I mean!!

[JohnL]

There is a wonderful article about this spinach situation, written by the ex owner of Natural Selections farm, on Chez Pim's blog.

Sorry, I have to dash off and havent time to get the link but Im sure you all will know where I mean!! 

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The article in question was linked in this thread.

See Chardgirl's post of Sept 18th.

IMOP the article is fine in offering some details as to how spinach is produced.

It comes from a someone with a particular point of view and an axe to grind.

Interestingly the writer criticizes the FDA for its actions (as too sweeping) and then

closes with "if I am wrong...."

In doing so the writer makes the case for the FDA's actions.

The fact is--until the investigation turns up some answers then everyone is

right (or wrong?).