Help with a thai dish

[jmolinari]

Posted this in the thai thread in the cooking board, but didn't get a reply. Thought i'd try here.

There is a dish at our favorite local thai resto called "goong obe mau den". It is a rice noodle dish cooked in a clay pot with galangal (among other herbs/spices) and shrimp.

Upon opening the clay pot an incredibly heady aroma of herbs i don't even recognize envelops you...it is amazing.

Does anyone know this method or know how to make this dish or a similar dish?

thanks

jason

[Chris Amirault]

Jason, my copy of Nancie McDermott's Real Thai lists this as "goong ope maw din," or clay-pot shrimp with bean thread noodles. There's a "cilantro pesto" (sorry, man) of cilantro, garlic, and black pepper, and there are a lot of ingredients that reveal the dish's Chinese origin (oyster sauce, sesame oil), but I'm not seeing any galangal....

[jmolinari]

Thanks Chris. I said galangal since it said that in the menu. I'll see if i can find that book somewhere to look up the recipe!

[HKDave]

Jason, are you sure it was rice noodles? The dish you describe sounds like goong ob moh din, better known as goong ob woon sen, which always uses beanthread noodles. I'm not aware of a similar dish using rice noodles. The dish uses ginger, not galangal.

The McDermott recipe Chris mentions can be found here: http://www.astray.com/recipes/?show=Goong%...read%20noodles)

It's reasonably authentic, however I would never use black peppercorns in this dish; they really should be white (and ideally, Thai - Thai white pepper does taste different).

The method I was taught is not to make a paste, but rather to stir-fry bashed coriander root, ginger, whole white peppercorns and a thin sliced white onion; move to a mixing bowl. Add soaked/drained noodles and remaining seasonings and sauces, toss. We always used whiskey instead of cooking wine. Smear the hot pot w/pork fat, drop a couple of slices of ginger in the bottom, dump everything in. You can line the hot pot with a cabbage leaf to prevent burning. It's common in Thailand to put a few slices of pork fat in the hot pot as well, although that will gross out most farangs. About 10 min hot oven.

You can do the same dish with crab, in which case it's called Po Ob Woon Sen.

[jmolinari]

HKDave, you are right. It was bean threads. I actually made this last night, following that recipe you posted...used white pepper of course.

It was good, but WAY WAY too much pepper, and not enough coriander. I made it with chicken, so i guess it was kai obe maw din.

I made it in a clay pot on a stove, so i got some burning at the bottom, also used rice threads as i didn't have bean threads on hand. I'll take your suggestions next time. Thanks!

jason

[Chris Amirault]

This strikes me as a dish in which ground cilantro/coriander root might be the aromatic that you detect....

[jmolinari]

chris, i thikn it was. It was good last night, but i need to up the cilantro, and lower the pepper in that recipe. All we could taste was pepper after a few bites.

[HKDave]

Hmmm. Her recipe is a teaspoon of white peppercorns, but I use more like a tablespoon, and mine is definitely not too hot. This isn't a spicy dish.

Are you crushing the peppercorns? I don't crush them, I use them whole and let them (and the coriander root, ginger and onion) perfume the dish kind of like a bouquet garni, but I don't necessarily eat them. That's the usual way it's done; I think McDermott's 'pesto' style is a bit strange.

[jmolinari]

Dave, yup, i crushed the peppercorns to a powder, and made a paste with teh garlic and cilantro. That probably explains the heat!

Next time i'll try it your way, but how doyou avoid eating the whole peppercorns?

[Chris Amirault]

Are you crushing the peppercorns? I don't crush them, I use them whole and let them (and the coriander root, ginger and onion) perfume the dish kind of like a bouquet garni, but I don't necessarily eat them. That's the usual way it's done; I think McDermott's 'pesto' style is a bit strange.

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I'd think she's trying to make a curry paste but doesn't want to say "curry paste" for some reason, so she's using the more au courant "pesto." Like jmolinari, I've crushed a lot of white peppercorns into curry pastes with a mortar and pestle. David Thompson, my Thai food guru, does it all the time.

[HKDave]

Jason, it's not a big problem avoiding most of the whole peppercorns; they tend to fall to the bottom of the hot pot as you serve the dish. You can see them. Ditto with the coriander roots and ginger slices.

I'd think she's trying to make a curry paste but doesn't want to say "curry paste" for some reason, so she's using the more au courant "pesto."

It could also be that she doesn't want to say 'curry paste' because Thai curry pastes - nam prik gaeng - by definition contain chilies, and this dish doesn't. In this case I disagree with McDermott; there shouldn't be a paste in this dish. The aromatics in woon sen hot pot should should perfume the dish rather than dominate it, and they should be left whole. The white pepper should be more of an aroma than a flavour. If you crush it, you'll get too much pepper flavour, as Jason found.

I'd suggest substituting

- 1 Tbs whole white peppercorn,

- 5 lightly crushed coriander roots (if you can't find roots, sub 10 lower stems, not stems and leaves as she suggests - the leaves taste quite different) and

- 3 slices of lightly crushed ginger

for her 'pesto'. Don't make a paste, just quick fry these with a thin-sliced onion, then add these aromatics to the noodles + sauces before they go into the hot pot.

[jmolinari]

Thanks Dave, i'll definitely try your method.