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chiantiglace

Xanthan

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Just wondering if anyone has any information on Xanthan that I can use. Something specifically from personal experience, particularly something I cant read in a book.

What are some do's and donts?

Same with Alginate while were at it.


Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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From personal experience, I don't like to use it in sauces, coulis etc. It develops a very slippery texture even in small doses. I usually only use it to thicken a liquid base for another purpose, but never for a finished sauce.

I think alot of people use xantham becuase its trendy, when good old cornstarch or agar would do the job better.

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My experience is that I tried it in scratch cakes and my personal conclusion was that the texture and moisture that I gained from using babyfood applesauce was nicer than that gained from xanthan. Also the less xanthan that was used the better. A very small amount was all that was necessary. It heads toward gummy quick. The extra feature of the added flavor of applesauce was another plus for applesauce. However I currently use neither in my cakes. That's just my personal experience when I was testing testing testing.

That reminds me, I should try a dollop of babyfood applesauce in my current offerings. But I would not bother with the xanthan anymore for baked goods like unless someone needed a gluten free and I felt like diddling with that. Which I don't feel like diddling with.


Edited by K8memphis (log)

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It's a good alternative thickener, but xanthan has an alternate use in gluten-free/lactose free baked products to add "mouth-feel".

Don't ask me how it works though? I have a cousin who is both gluten and lactose intolerant and I tried some various baking recipes for him.

An odd asside; there was a rumor that Osama bin Laden's family controlled the world's supply of the substance, which is produced in Sudan.

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An odd asside; there was a rumor that Osama bin Laden's family controlled the world's supply of the substance, which is produced in Sudan.

Actually, the rumor was in regard to Acacia gum, aka gum arabic, which is derived from Acacia trees and is in fact largely supplied to the rest of the world by Sudan. Xanthan gum, on the other hand, is produced from a Xanthamonas bacterium, and was actually discovered by the USDA. I think the largest producer in the world is the US based company CP Kelco.


"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

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An odd asside; there was a rumor that Osama bin Laden's family controlled the world's supply of the substance, which is produced in Sudan.

srhcb, I think you are thinking of arabic gum, that is why many brands turned to the name gum acacia.


Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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sorry patrick, I think we posted at the same time :biggrin: .

You you really feel xanthan is inferior to cornstarch in coulis/fruit sauces?


Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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An odd asside; there was a rumor that Osama bin Laden's family controlled the world's supply of the substance, which is produced in Sudan.

srhcb, I think you are thinking of arabic gum, that is why many brands turned to the name gum acacia.

I should has said "false" rumor.

SB :wacko:

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http://www.foodproductdesign.com/

Do a search for 'xanthan' and read the articles. It'll tell you all the do's and don'ts.

Thanks Scott. There is a lot of good information there.


"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

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sorry patrick, I think we posted at the same time :biggrin: .

You you really feel xanthan is inferior to cornstarch in coulis/fruit sauces?

Pectin or agar-agar > all....

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Does anyone have any rules-of-thumb as far as how much xanthan gum to use for a given quantity of liquid? Since it is soluble in hot or cold liquids, and doesn't have to be boiled to thicken, I suppose you could just add it bit by bit until you got the viscosity you wanted, but it would be good to know what general rules there might be.

ETA: I checked a few sites, and for thickening sauces, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1t per cup seems to be recommended.


Edited by Patrick S (log)

"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

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as you said

you could just add it bit by bit until you got the viscosity you wanted, but it would be good to know what general rules there might be.

start at .1%, your ph balance is also a factor.


www.adrianvasquez.net

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i've read anywhere from .015% to 1%, depending on various things.


Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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start at .1%, your ph balance is also a factor.

Unless you're dealing with an very acidic sauce, pH balance is not a factor with xanthan.

http://www.skidmore-sales.com/whatsnew/new.../summer2001.pdf

Rhodigel Xanthan Gum is an anionic polymer that is

soluble in both hot and cold water, but insoluble in most

organic solvents. It is one of the most effective thickeners

on the market today, providing very high viscosity even at

low concentrations. It is extremely stable in both acidic and

alkaline solutions over a broad pH range of 3 to 10. It is also

stable over a wide range of temperatures.

Xanthan happens to be one of the most acid stable thickeners available.

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Does anyone have any rules-of-thumb as far as how much xanthan gum to use for a given quantity of liquid? Since it is soluble in hot or cold liquids, and doesn't have to be boiled to thicken, I suppose you could just add it bit by bit until you got the viscosity you wanted, but it would be good to know what general rules there might be.

ETA: I checked a few sites, and for thickening sauces, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1t per cup seems to be recommended.

In theory, yes, 1 t. will thicken a cup of liquid, but in practice... you'd end up with a gloppy stringy slimy mess. Commercially, xanthan is almost always used either in small amounts or in conjuction with other thickeners. It has an especially good synergy with guar. I always combine the two.

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start at .1%, your ph balance is also a factor.

Unless you're dealing with an very acidic sauce, pH balance is not a factor with xanthan.

i stand corrected


www.adrianvasquez.net

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Does anyone have any rules-of-thumb as far as how much xanthan gum to use for a given quantity of liquid? Since it is soluble in hot or cold liquids, and doesn't have to be boiled to thicken, I suppose you could just add it bit by bit until you got the viscosity you wanted, but it would be good to know what general rules there might be.

ETA: I checked a few sites, and for thickening sauces, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1t per cup seems to be recommended.

In theory, yes, 1 t. will thicken a cup of liquid, but in practice... you'd end up with a gloppy stringy slimy mess. Commercially, xanthan is almost always used either in small amounts or in conjuction with other thickeners. It has an especially good synergy with guar. I always combine the two.

That's what I'm reading in the Food Product Design articles -- that the best effects are usually achieved with mixtures. I'm very much interested in hearing anything you want to say about how you have used these gums, singly or in combinations, and the successes and failures you've had. I'm curious in particular whether you've experimented with using these in ice creams.


"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

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i linked to this website through an ad on the "food product design" site and they have pretty good information (very basic) on all the gums, etc. they also have application sheets which are pretty interesting.

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I like ultra tek 3 from national food starch for a non cook thickener.

What is that?

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I was actually advised by TIC gums, that as the pH levels decrease (more acidic) that it is likely to need a greater percentage of xanthan.

For instance, our berry sauce I have estimated it at around .3-.35%, while the passion fruit may be as high as .7%.

this may not seem like that much of a difference considering we were using around 3.6% cornstarch previously, but I think it has a considerable difference.

I still have to do some experimenting, so dont come down on me just yet.


Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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Speaking from personal experience here..... I've made non-wheat baked goods for my sister, for whom wheat is a problem. If you're making recipes using xanthan, follow the amounts! It doesn't take very much at all to have an effect, and it can make batters very difficult to work with if you use too much-- and it definitely doesn't take much to be too much. More is not better in the case of xanthan. I've never used xanthan in sauces, but seeing how it works in baked goods, for general home use I'd be more inclined to use cornstarch in sauces. I can see where it would be too easy to get a slimy, gooey sauce with xanthan. I think it would be easier to control the amount of cornstarch used.


"Fat is money." (Per a cracklings maker shown on Dirty Jobs.)

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