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Z Kitchen


BryanZ
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Tess, the food is intellectual; that's one of the aims.  The problem is getting people to hear about it.  I have a good deal of interest but people seem unwilling to take the plunge, so to speak.

Viable suggestions anyone?

This seems to be where you are wrong, Bryan. From the response to this thread, it seems like many are indeed willing. You really aren't in any kind of position to 'advertise' what you are doing anyway, so why worry about getting the word out? You can't be investing large sums since you are reservation only. I would think your dontation system would cover the costs of preparing the food for exactly the number of people you are going to serve. The venue of egullet seems a perfect place to let in who you would want your core audience to be, right?

"Godspeed all the bakers at dawn... may they all cut their thumbs and bleed into their buns til they melt away..."

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Is there a actually an eGullet night @ Z Kitchen planned, or did that get sidetracked?

I'll just have Bryan haul his stuff over to my house in Raleigh. We could all cover his costs. detlefchef will pick the wines. I can find room for 20 or so!

Up for it, Bryan??? :wink:

Dean McCord

VarmintBites

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I don't question his right to wonder if people will be into what he's doing but I'm assuming that this forum was intended to be much of his target customers.  Wondering if those of us in the triangle are "ready" can very easily be seen as a challenge. 

Right on, but this "us" thing...I'm almost sure he wasn't talking about eGulleters from the triangle when he wondered if NC was ready. That would've been not only brash but counterproductive and well, not very smart. Maybe he should've said "I don't mean you guys", but I thought that was implied...

As I think I've said, my comments were directed toward what I consider the area at large. And as others have said, the same comments can be applied pretty much everywhere, NYC included. Of course, they were not directed toward eG members. I do understand, however, how my comments could have been misconstrued or seen as brash. And, yes, as detlechef says I don't have a lot to prove my worth besides this idea, a website, and some passion. At the same time I've never said my food or ideas are so good that people just won't be on my level. It's more that I'm doing something that no one in the area is doing so people might be weirded out or even offended. These boards (of "foodies") often show how vehemently against hypermodern cooking people can be.

From the response to this thread, it seems like many are indeed willing. You really aren't in any kind of position to 'advertise' what you are doing anyway, so why worry about getting the word out? You can't be investing large sums since you are reservation only. I would think your dontation system would cover the costs of preparing the food for exactly the number of people you are going to serve. The venue of egullet seems a perfect place to let in who you would want your core audience to be, right?

Willingness is a relative term. People are willing to talk about it (as on eG), or even contact me, but few people are actually taking the plunge and book a party. When time and money are on the line they're less willing to try something new and unfamiliar. That goes for just about anything. I would love for eG'rs to come by, but so far I've not heard from many.

Is there a actually an eGullet night @ Z Kitchen planned, or did that get sidetracked?

I'll just have Bryan haul his stuff over to my house in Raleigh. We could all cover his costs. detlefchef will pick the wines. I can find room for 20 or so!

Up for it, Bryan??? :wink:

Errr. :blink: How about four of you get together and come to Durham. Once I have some patrons (in both senses of the word) I'll consider private dinners off-site.

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I don't question his right to wonder if people will be into what he's doing but I'm assuming that this forum was intended to be much of his target customers.  Wondering if those of us in the triangle are "ready" can very easily be seen as a challenge. 

Right on, but this "us" thing...I'm almost sure he wasn't talking about eGulleters from the triangle when he wondered if NC was ready. That would've been not only brash but counterproductive and well, not very smart. Maybe he should've said "I don't mean you guys", but I thought that was implied...

As I think I've said, my comments were directed toward what I consider the area at large. And as others have said, the same comments can be applied pretty much everywhere, NYC included. Of course, they were not directed toward eG members. I do understand, however, how my comments could have been misconstrued or seen as brash. And, yes, as detlechef says I don't have a lot to prove my worth besides this idea, a website, and some passion. At the same time I've never said my food or ideas are so good that people just won't be on my level. It's more that I'm doing something that no one in the area is doing so people might be weirded out or even offended. These boards (of "foodies") often show how vehemently against hypermodern cooking people can be.

From the response to this thread, it seems like many are indeed willing. You really aren't in any kind of position to 'advertise' what you are doing anyway, so why worry about getting the word out? You can't be investing large sums since you are reservation only. I would think your dontation system would cover the costs of preparing the food for exactly the number of people you are going to serve. The venue of egullet seems a perfect place to let in who you would want your core audience to be, right?

Willingness is a relative term. People are willing to talk about it (as on eG), or even contact me, but few people are actually taking the plunge and book a party. When time and money are on the line they're less willing to try something new and unfamiliar. That goes for just about anything. I would love for eG'rs to come by, but so far I've not heard from many.

Is there a actually an eGullet night @ Z Kitchen planned, or did that get sidetracked?

I'll just have Bryan haul his stuff over to my house in Raleigh. We could all cover his costs. detlefchef will pick the wines. I can find room for 20 or so!

Up for it, Bryan??? :wink:

Errr. :blink: How about four of you get together and come to Durham. Once I have some patrons (in both senses of the word) I'll consider private dinners off-site.

What a very rude response to a very generous offer. Previously I referred to the assurance of youth. Now I'm I'm pondering the arrogance of youth.

"A fool", he said, "would have swallowed it". Samuel Johnson

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Whoa, chill. Varmint's offer was at least somewhat in jest, I think. My response was in keeping with the light hearted discussion; notice the flustered emoticon.

I realize that by starting this thread I've opened myself up to any type of criticism people choose to dish out. But I'm finding that some posts are just downright unfair, out of context, and unfair given that no one here has actually eaten with me.

With that said, I don't mean to proselytize and I love most everyone's ideas. Thanks to everyone so far for contributing.

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Not sure what sort of studies you are engaged in, Bryan, but you seem committed to them. Is there room in there to include a course that covers stuff like setting up a business plan? One of my sons is doing a degree in audio engineering and aside from all the technical and creative stuff, he is learning about the business side - copyright, business plans, marketing, identifying market niche etc etc. After the initial reality check he is discovering you can be a lot more optimistic about your aspirations when armed with the right knowledge.

And don't let anyone shoot down your dreams. You keep motivated!

Website: http://cookingdownunder.com

Blog: http://cookingdownunder.com/blog

Twitter: @patinoz

The floggings will continue until morale improves

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I don't question his right to wonder if people will be into what he's doing but I'm assuming that this forum was intended to be much of his target customers.  Wondering if those of us in the triangle are "ready" can very easily be seen as a challenge. 

Right on, but this "us" thing...I'm almost sure he wasn't talking about eGulleters from the triangle when he wondered if NC was ready. That would've been not only brash but counterproductive and well, not very smart. Maybe he should've said "I don't mean you guys", but I thought that was implied...

As I think I've said, my comments were directed toward what I consider the area at large. And as others have said, the same comments can be applied pretty much everywhere, NYC included. Of course, they were not directed toward eG members. I do understand, however, how my comments could have been misconstrued or seen as brash. And, yes, as detlechef says I don't have a lot to prove my worth besides this idea, a website, and some passion. At the same time I've never said my food or ideas are so good that people just won't be on my level. It's more that I'm doing something that no one in the area is doing so people might be weirded out or even offended. These boards (of "foodies") often show how vehemently against hypermodern cooking people can be.

From the response to this thread, it seems like many are indeed willing. You really aren't in any kind of position to 'advertise' what you are doing anyway, so why worry about getting the word out? You can't be investing large sums since you are reservation only. I would think your dontation system would cover the costs of preparing the food for exactly the number of people you are going to serve. The venue of egullet seems a perfect place to let in who you would want your core audience to be, right?

Willingness is a relative term. People are willing to talk about it (as on eG), or even contact me, but few people are actually taking the plunge and book a party. When time and money are on the line they're less willing to try something new and unfamiliar. That goes for just about anything. I would love for eG'rs to come by, but so far I've not heard from many.

Is there a actually an eGullet night @ Z Kitchen planned, or did that get sidetracked?

I'll just have Bryan haul his stuff over to my house in Raleigh. We could all cover his costs. detlefchef will pick the wines. I can find room for 20 or so!

Up for it, Bryan??? :wink:

Errr. :blink: How about four of you get together and come to Durham. Once I have some patrons (in both senses of the word) I'll consider private dinners off-site.

What a very rude response to a very generous offer. Previously I referred to the assurance of youth. Now I'm I'm pondering the arrogance of youth.

I think you're overreacting.

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It would be great to get the focus of the thread back on his ideas, the food and the concept than about slamming poor Bryan and his venture.

My company just signed an agreement with Duke to do some work with the Duke Diet, so hopefully in the next few weeks I will be visiting Duke, I am surely going to let Bryan know when I am in town.

John

Edited by johnder (log)

John Deragon

foodblog 1 / 2

--

I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day -- Dean Martin

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It would be great to get the focus of the thread back on his ideas, the food and the concept than about slamming poor Bryan and his venture.

the thread has been on track the whole time. there are numerous problems with this business (that's right, i called it a business, because that's what it is) and he can only tapdance around them for so long. the cautionary comments in this thread and other z kitchen-related thread have been spot-on. while some of you may not like them because they aren't cheering him on and saying "yay bryan, you da man!", doesn't lessen their importance.

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Let me jump in as the host of this forum and remind everyone that it's perfectly fine to offer Bryan advice. He asked for it. It's perfectly fine to offer constructive criticism, even when it may be less than positive. But let's not attack any individual or his or her opinion. And keep the discussion focused on food, not legal issues.

Yes, Bryan may very well have some issues to deal with. He may get evicted from his student dorm. He may have to deal with tax issues. And the more successful he is, the more likely he'll be a target. But right now, I'm willing to ask Bryan to cook for us and I'll cover his food costs. There's no profit motive here. C'mon, he's at Duke and travels around the world -- he's not hurting for money!!!

So, I and 5 of my friends will be there on September 29, and we'll report back.

Dean McCord

VarmintBites

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I think if we look at this thread as a whole there are contructive criticisms and ideas that are good for him to hear, especially as the risks of doing that he is doing may be larger (or smaller) then he thinks, and is completely in context of this thread.

The other comments that were judging him based upon his age, or lack of experience is something else that I think was out of the original intention of the thread as Bryan himself mentioned up thread.

John Deragon

foodblog 1 / 2

--

I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day -- Dean Martin

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Going back and re-reading my posts I would like to make one clarification for the sake of semantics. I repeatedly said "I'm not sure the Triangle is ready..." or something to that effect. What I actually meant is "I'm not sure the Triangle is willing to accept..."

The difference between the two is slight but also significant, I think. Those who might have been previously offended by the former iteration of my comments can take the updated version as they will.

Anyway, I'm cooking for some friends on Saturday. Here's a preliminary menu. The restriction was pseudo-kosher, ie no shellfish or dairy (since I'm serving meat). Cooking without butter or cream is going to be hard as hell but here's what I'm thinking of.

Amuse: Lightly pickled roasted beet, baby lettuce (from the Aerogarden), orange blossom honey. It'll be presented cutely, don't worry. I really want to put some cheese on this thing, but alas I can't.

1) Heirloom tomatoes, balsamic-infused watermelon, mint

2) Salmon mi-cuit, braised fennel, raisins, powdered soy sauce

3) An homage to a New York steakhouse - sirloin cuit sous vide, roasted cauliflower puree, roasted mushrooms and Neuske bacon

Pre-dessert: Baked apples, spiced apple air.

4) Carbonated fruit salad, miso-chocolate dipping sauce

I need more plates. I'm trying to place a last minute order and hope that it comes through. My sales rep is apparently on the run, or (more likely) avoiding my emails and calls, so we'll see if it'll happen.

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So I am reading the menu and thinking where is the pseudo coming in.. Alas, the infamous gateway meat, Bacon..

Sounds awesome Bryan.. Looking forward to hearing about it...Will you be discussing the finacial part of it as well.

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Tess, the food is intellectual; that's one of the aims. The problem is getting people to hear about it. I have a good deal of interest but people seem unwilling to take the plunge, so to speak.

Bryan, make friends with some art gallery owners. A vernissage is basically a party...with art. And artists generally hang out where there is cheap alcohol and free food.....but people who BUY art generally like to try new things and don't mind spending money.

Plus, vernissages are fun. You meet all kinds of interesting people.

If only I'd worn looser pants....

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Going back and re-reading my posts I would like to make one clarification for the sake of semantics.  I repeatedly said "I'm not sure the Triangle is ready..." or something to that effect.  What I actually meant is "I'm not sure the Triangle is willing to accept..."

The difference between the two is slight but also significant, I think.  Those who might have been previously offended by the former iteration of my comments can take the updated version as they will.

Anyway, I'm cooking for some friends on Saturday.  Here's a preliminary menu.  The restriction was pseudo-kosher, ie no shellfish or dairy (since I'm serving meat).  Cooking without butter or cream is going to be hard as hell but here's what I'm thinking of.

Amuse: Lightly pickled roasted beet, baby lettuce (from the Aerogarden), orange blossom honey.  It'll be presented cutely, don't worry.  I really want to put some cheese on this thing, but alas I can't.

1) Heirloom tomatoes, balsamic-infused watermelon, mint

2) Salmon mi-cuit, braised fennel, raisins, powdered soy sauce

3) An homage to a New York steakhouse - sirloin cuit sous vide, roasted cauliflower puree, roasted mushrooms and Neuske bacon

Pre-dessert: Baked apples, spiced apple air.

4) Carbonated fruit salad, miso-chocolate dipping sauce

I need more plates.  I'm trying to place a last minute order and hope that it comes through.  My sales rep is apparently on the run, or (more likely) avoiding my emails and calls, so we'll see if it'll happen.

Bryan, that sounds wonderful. Would you post some pictures when you have a chance, I'd love to see them!

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So way after I had supposedly confirmed with kids who are coming on Saturday, I get an email saying one of them doesn't eat beef or chocolate. This made me want to kill myself. So no dairy, no pork (a late addition), and for one of the diners no beef or chocolate.

Awesome.

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So way after I had supposedly confirmed with kids who are coming on Saturday, I get an email saying one of them doesn't eat beef or chocolate.  This made me want to kill myself.  So no dairy, no pork (a late addition), and for one of the diners no beef or chocolate.

Awesome.

Sorry to hear about the last minute additional dining restricitions! Maybe you could keep most of the ideas for your steak course but substitute a braised duck leg dish...

"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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So way after I had supposedly confirmed with kids who are coming on Saturday, I get an email saying one of them doesn't eat beef or chocolate.  This made me want to kill myself.  So no dairy, no pork (a late addition), and for one of the diners no beef or chocolate.

Awesome.

That's not so bad. All you need to do is sub duck or something similar for the beef and ditch the bacon. How about a roasted pineapple-vanilla dipping sauce instead of the miso/chocolate?

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

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Yeah, I'm going to do a cripsy breast of pan roasted chicken instead I think. It's safe and tasty. I would do something like duck or lamb, but I'm scared that if I buy something a little out of the ordinary he won't like it. I guess I have to make compromises.

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So way after I had supposedly confirmed with kids who are coming on Saturday, I get an email saying one of them doesn't eat beef or chocolate.  This made me want to kill myself.  So no dairy, no pork (a late addition), and for one of the diners no beef or chocolate.

Awesome.

That's not so bad. All you need to do is sub duck or something similar for the beef and ditch the bacon. How about a roasted pineapple-vanilla dipping sauce instead of the miso/chocolate?

I've been playing with the idea of a vanila flavored dipping sauce instead for the one diner but can't figure out how to make it without dairy. Ideas?

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  I guess I have to make compromises.

I suspect that it won't be too long before you won't have to. remember, you don't need to fill a lot of seats. It seems to me that the main reason that you are doing this right now (and please correct me if I am wrong in my assessment) is the desire to continue to hone your skills and instincts, build a reputation, turn people on and have some fun. The hard part is getting started.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

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