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Black and White Cookies


Velma

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Ok, so here they are, as baked and iced by me, a West Coast pastry chef:

gallery_16916_433_125642.jpg

here's the inside:

gallery_16916_433_67552.jpg

Ok, New Yorkers......do they look as they should?

Here's my personal opinion (no offense).

Not anything I will make again. They do look pretty cool, but pretty disappointing in taste I must say.

I made the cookies exactly as the recipe was written out of Baking Illustrated (no tweaks).

I wanted to make the "traditional" Black and White. They were cakey, yes, but kind of dryish.

I definitely didn't overbake them. The cookie by itself was quite bland....definitely needed icing.

But once the icing was on, it didn't do much to improve them. I mean, they're OK, but just OK.

To me, the best part of the cookie was the resistance the set icing gave as I sunk my teeth into

it. I love that part.

My husband's opinion, and I quote:

It's the kind of cookie an old lady would serve at her Bridge Club.

I don't think he was too hot on it either.

And now, I'm off to a dinner party. Taking some of the Black and Whites with me, for more opinions! :laugh:

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They look great!! I want one. You could always try Martha's recipe for comparison. I guess maybe because I grew up with them, I love them. But, as I said, I havent had a good one the last few times I've been in Florida. I probably wont search them out the next time I go back.

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Ok, so here they are, as baked and iced by me, a West Coast pastry chef:

gallery_16916_433_125642.jpg

here's the inside:

gallery_16916_433_67552.jpg

Ok, New Yorkers......do they look as they should?

Here's my personal opinion (no offense).

Not anything I will make again. They do look pretty cool, but pretty disappointing in taste I must say.

I made the cookies exactly as the recipe was written out of Baking Illustrated (no tweaks).

I wanted to make the "traditional" Black and White. They were cakey, yes, but kind of dryish.

I definitely didn't overbake them. The cookie by itself was quite bland....definitely needed icing.

But once the icing was on, it didn't do much to improve them. I mean, they're OK, but just OK.

To me, the best part of the cookie was the resistance the set icing gave as I sunk my teeth into

it. I love that part.

My husband's opinion, and I quote:

It's the kind of cookie an old lady would serve at her Bridge Club.

I don't think he was too hot on it either.

And now, I'm off to a dinner party. Taking some of the Black and Whites with me, for more opinions! :laugh:

Those are beautiful-you did better than I did! What was your baking time and temp? I definitely thought that the person who e-mailed me and said that they were the best cookies she had ever eaten was being way over enthusiastic. I would not rate them in that category. However, I thought they tasted better the next day. I guess they grew on me overnight. I do have a soft iced sugar cookie recipe that I like MUCH better.

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chefpeon, does the recipe in Baking Illustrated call for lemon in the dough? I think that greatly improves the flavor.

Your black & whites look fine, but I really would have to taste them myself to appraise them, and unfortunately, that isn't possible at this distance. :wink:

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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One of the other posters here has requested the recipe from Cooks Illustrated and I would be willing to type it in but are there any copyright restrictions on posting recipes from cookbooks? Thanks!

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chefpeon,

they look great, but you iced the wrong side. traditionally, they're iced on the flat side i guess because it is the ugly side stuck to the parchment. the rounded side is where you'll get some nice crust (as pan said you should have in his post).

i agree also with pan that the cookie should have some lemon flavoring, either zest or lemon oil in the batter.

i don't agree with the necessity of good cocoa or chocolate for the "black" side. i still stand by my preference for the fake sort of instant coffee/chocolate tasting black side that i've had on decent black and whites in nyc.

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Black and Whites, Day 2

Ok, so I took the freshy fresh Black and Whites to my dinner party last night. And wouldn't you know it, one of the dinner guests was a native New Yorker! I walked in the front door with my platter, and as he spied them, he said "Hey! Black and Whites!" How perfect....he could tell me how close I got to "authenticity".

He ate one after dinner and said:

Yep! This is it! Except the ones in New York are a little drier and the icing is harder.

He seemed to enjoy it. I'll take his remark as a compliment.

My hostess (and chef extraordinaire) Abra said:

Hey, I actually really like these.

My host, Abra's husband Shel (a wonderful storyteller) said:

These don't suck.

I'll take that as a compliment too.

Others at the dinner party concurred that they weren't too bad. Favorable response overall I'd say.

they look great, but you iced the wrong side. traditionally, they're iced on the flat side i guess because it is the ugly side stuck to the parchment. the rounded side is where you'll get some nice crust (as pan said you should have in his post).

i agree also with pan that the cookie should have some lemon flavoring, either zest or lemon oil in the batter.

In my defense, I will say that the recipe in "Baking OverExplained", uh, er, I mean "Baking Illustrated" said nothing about which side the cookies should be iced on. I guess that's what separates the Easties from the Westies, eh? I didn't ice the wrong sides....I iced them "West Coast Style". :raz: I will also note that my Native New York Critic never said anything like,

"Hey! You iced the wrong side!"

And yeah baby.....I had lemon in there, you betcha!!!!

Now for the amusing part.

I told my husband this morning about the dinner party, and everyone's response to the Black and Whites. He then admitted to me, that he ate another one after I had left for the party. I had them all out on racks because they hadn't all quite set. Then he ate another one, and another one. His final opinion is that they grew on him and he finds them "strangely compelling". I must agree as I ate three of them for breakfast this morning. They are.......kind of......good. Does this explain why perhaps I am craving a Pastrami on Rye for lunch??? :laugh:

Edited by chefpeon (log)
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Ok, here comes the recipe, a la Baking Illustrated, and paraphrased by me.

Black and Whites

Cream together:

1 3/4 cups granulated sugar

2 sticks (8 oz) unsalted butter (softened but still cool)

1/2 tsp salt

1/2 tsp baking powder

Cream til light and fluffy, about 3 minutes or so.

(Yes, I cream my salt and baking powder with my butter and sugars instead of mixing it with the flour and setting it aside. Why? Because it's easier, less messy, and the leavening gets more uniformly mixed into the dough without having to overwork the flour later. That's a trick I figured out by mixing 60 qt. batches of cookie dough at my day job.)

Then add:

2 large eggs (preferably room temp, but it's sort of not a big deal if they aren't)

1/2 tsp. vanilla extract

1/4 tsp. lemon extract (ok, so I did a little tweak...I added a half tsp. of lemon extract)

Scrape down bowl. Then mix until fluffy and uniform.

Then add:

4 cups cake flour (yes, you must use cake flour. All purpose just doesn't produce a tender enough cookie)

1 cup milk

Beginning and ending with the flour, add it alternately with the milk until the mixture is just combined.

Dough will be pretty darn soft. Using an ice cream scoop is the the best way to go, but you can drop the dough onto cookie sheets (greased well), or parchment lined, with a couple of spoons.

Moisten your fingers and gently press the dough globs into disks about 2 1/2 inches wide by 3/8" thick.

Bake at 375 anywhere from 12 to 20 minutes. The cookies don't brown, nor do you want them to. They are done when you see the tiniest tinge of gold around the bottom edge. I baked my cookies one sheet at a time. After 8 minutes I spun the pan around and then they went for 6 minutes more.

Icings:

Bring to boil:

1/4 cup light corn syrup

1/3 cup water

It's easy to do this in the micro, in a large plastic bowl.

Then add:

5 cups powdered sugar

1/2 tsp. vanilla extract

Mix til smooth.

Now, dip your cooled cookies halfway into your icing. Tilt the bowl so you can dip your cookie sufficiently. Let the excess icing drip off a bit, and scrape the bottom of the cookie on the edge of the bowl. I don't know why most of the recipes say to ice the cookies with a spatula. It's stupid...it's messy, and you don't get a perfect "halfway line". Dipping is the way to go. These cookies don't give off any crumbs...my icing was perfect start to finish.

Place your halfway dipped cookies on to racks so the icing can drip off without creating "feet" at the bottom of the cookies. Let them set.

Now melt:

2 ounces unsweetened chocolate (chopped fine)

Easy to do in the micro!

Add it to the remainder of your icing. If you feel you don't have enough icing to do the other half, just add more water, a little corn syrup, maybe more powdered sugar to stretch it out. You may also want to heat it up in the micro a little bit, because the chocolate sort of stiffens it up.

Now dip your other halves. Set on racks to drip. They set in about an hour, and you're good to go!

:wub:

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Thank you, so much for the nice explanation :biggrin: .I kinda think this cookies are something like some cookies in Italy ,they are ok but you cant explain why you cant stop eating them :laugh: .

Since we are on cookies thread, I made some sugar cookies last nite to play with my son ( flour shower :huh: ),the cut out ones ,and I used the cake flour , they came very nice , but cakey like very soft and fragile ,I am not an expert in sugar cookies in fact I really dont know how they are suppose to be .Are the cut out different from the drop ones in texture and taste?

Thank you as usuall these threads always start me to do different things .I WANT COOKIES NOW!!! :laugh:

Edited by Desiderio (log)

Vanessa

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I really liked Chefpeon's black and whites, never having had one before last night. If we hadn't been having jackal10's summer pudding for dessert, I would have certainly eaten more of the B&Ws.

I like them in the same way I like a good marshmallow, something that's delicately sweet and whose texture feels good in your mouth. Gentle. Soothing. It cracks me up that they were iced upsidedown, so I hope she makes more and we can check out the crust theory. Last night's didn't have any snap of crust, they were uniformly soft, so I imagine they would be even better iced the other way 'round.

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don't get too excited abra :raz: . i think the idea is purely aesthetic...since the cookie is peeled off the paper, it just has a naked side to it that is perfect for icing. as chefpeon said, i don't think it is meant to have a "crust" in that sense of the word. at least the ones i've eaten didn't have one...but being in a deli case for a couple of days could eliminate that anyway :laugh:

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I dug out the recipe that Suzilightening snailmailed me back in July 05. I can't believe i havent made them yet.

I'm not sure what book this recipe is from. The side of the paper says " The corner bakery".

Makes 10-12 large or 16-18 small

1 1/3 cup sugar

1 cup solid veg shortening at room temp

1 stick butter( 1/2 cup)

2 tsp light corn syrup

4 eggs, room temp.

2 1/4 cup cake flour

2 tsp baking powder

1/2 tsp salt

2/3 c. milk

2 tsp vanilla

1/4 tsp lemon extract

1/8tsp orange extract

vanilla icing

1 1/2lb powdered sugar, sifted

1/3 cup light corn syrup

1/4 cup water

1/2 tsp vanilla

Choc. Icing

1 recipe vanilla icing

4 oz semisweet choc. chopped

preheat oven to 400f. cover large baking sheet with parchment. If making large cookies, trace four 4 1/2 inch circles on each parchement. For small cookies make 3 1/2 inch circles.

cream butter and sugar and shortening. Add cornsyrup and eggs one at a time. scrape bowl.

In another bowl combine flours, powder and salt.

beat the dry ingredients into butter mixture, alternating with milk. Begin and end with dry ingredients. Add extracts.

Use 1/2 cup measure for large cookie, fill in circle. bake 10 min Use 1/3 cup for smaller cookie. bake 8 min.

Use double boiler to make vanilla icing. cook to 100f. if too thick, add small amount of water. frost 1/2 cookie. Add chocolate to vanilla icing and frost the rest.

IMHO, the baking illust. recipe sounds better because I prefer butter to shortening. Has anyone ever made the above version?

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It cracks me up that they were iced upsidedown, so I hope she makes more and we can check out the crust theory. Last night's didn't have any snap of crust, they were uniformly soft, so I imagine they would be even better iced the other way 'round.

The "crust" is actually softer on the bottoms because when you peel the cookie off the parchment paper, a lot of it gets left behind. The only way the crust would ever "snap" on these cookies is if you overbaked them....a lot. :smile:

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Hmm...another treat I can't find up here in Vancouver! I think the black and whites are similar in appeal as the Red Velvet cake, which I thought was just good at first, but really grew on me the more I ate it. Now I love Red Velvet. I guess I have to start making black and whites as well. :wink:

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Let me just add in that black and whites are definitely available, and have been for a very long time, here on the west coast. That is, of course, for those of us who grew up in LA which has a long tradition of great Jewish delis and bakeries and the like. (See threads elsewhere on pastrami and Langers.) However, it does depend on your areas tradition in this area.

My parents were transplanted NYers who moved west in the middle of the 20th century as did many others. Grandma followed them out here and lived in the Fairfax area where there were any number of great Jewish bakeries along Fairfax and 3rd and other such places (Schwartz's, Star, King David, etc.). When I was 10, the family moved up to San Francisco which had great bread and other food but no tradition of NY-style bakeries and delis. The lack of black and whites was a real disappointment. However, grandma would come up to visit often on PSA (the Southwest Airlines of its day.) Before she would visit, she would B&Ws by the dozens at one of the better bakeries, have them frozen individually before being packed in the bakery boxes with those wax sheets in between. She'd get off the plane with stacks of pink bakery boxes tied together which would live in our freezer till her next visit. Not as good as fresh but they were a real treat. Of course, my Mom would always eat the blacks and leave the whites which was another issue.

There are still many good Jewish eateries around LA. The concentration in the Fairfax area has thinned out as the Jewish population has shifted to Pico, West LA, the Valley and even further.

So long and thanks for all the fish.
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I was asking one Jewish friend about black & whites and he told me this about the frosting:

First, you put the white frosting on the entire cake/cookie (Yes, the whole schmear!!). Let the white frosting harden. Then, the chocolate frosting goes on one-half of the cake/cookie.

Is this so??

Russell J. Wong aka "rjwong"

Food and I, we go way back ...

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I was asking one Jewish friend about black & whites and he told me this about the frosting:

First, you put the white frosting on the entire cake/cookie (Yes, the whole schmear!!). Let the white frosting harden. Then, the chocolate frosting goes on one-half of the cake/cookie. 

Is this so??

i've never had one made this way, but my experience is a bit limited. i'm going to be in nyc in a couple of weeks, so i'll do some research.

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I was asking one Jewish friend about black & whites and he told me this about the frosting:

First, you put the white frosting on the entire cake/cookie (Yes, the whole schmear!!). Let the white frosting harden. Then, the chocolate frosting goes on one-half of the cake/cookie. 

Is this so??

Whoever told you this probably thinks that blueberry or jalapeno are legitimate bagel flavors. 'Nuff said!

So long and thanks for all the fish.
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  • 11 months later...
why is baking powder added? all the cookies i've seen are flat, implying no leavening.

Just because a cookie is flat doesn't mean that there's no leavening. :smile:

ETA: It might mean the difference between a flat and dense cookie and a still-flat but lighter cookie. (Yes, I know this from experience.)

Edited by miladyinsanity (log)

May

Totally More-ish: The New and Improved Foodblog

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I haven't found a decent black and white cookie in NYC in years.  There used to be a Jewish bakery in my neighborhood called Wiesen's that made the best b&w cookies.  I've always been partial to the "black" side of the cookie and they would even make an "all-black" cookie for me if I called in the morning (for after-work pick-up).  But once they closed down, I haven't had one as good since. 

I've tried Zaro's bakery, a neighborhood bakery called Leon's, the plastic wrapped "Joey's" brand b&w cookies and countless others.  They've all ranged from dry and crumbly to artificial tasting (the Joey's brand). 

I would love to be able to recreate the ones I used to get at Wiesens.

The bakeries / cafes that used to be called Yura's and are now called something like The Corner Cafe (main branch, where the kitchen is, Third Avenue and 93rd) makes excellent black and whites. The cake part is lightly flavored with almond extract, which works for me, but if you are outraged by the idea don't even bother making the journey.

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