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Misinformed regional pride


Kent Wang

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For me, I always qualify a "Best of" with "that I've had so far", although I'm always looking for something better. Having a difference of opinion doesn't make either person wrong, it's a factor of individual taste. And until you've FOUND the best, you have to go with the evidence you have gathered to that point.

"Best Of" lists and titles are an interesting diversion, but they mostly come down to a popularity contest, nothing more.

Vince Staten and Greg Anderson subscribe to this philosophy: In their book Real Barbecue, recently reissued and updated, they refuse to say a place is "the best" -- as far as they go is "as good as we've ever had." And they explain why: (Paraphrasing) For all they know, as they're eating the best barbecue ever, someone else, somewhere else, is building a pit, hanging a sign reading "BBQ," and serving 'cue the likes of which the world has not yet seen. That's a very sensible approach, IMO.

Your last sentence is particularly true of readers' and viewers' polls. Editors' picks presumably reflect some degree of critical judgement, but it's not unheard of for a city magazine to prefer advertisers over non-advertisers, to pick a counterexample.

I'm not trying to argue with you.  I am honestly curious as to what BBQ restaurants in Austin are considered by others as being "nostalgic."

Perhaps the better term is "legend"; nostalgic implies a long history, while effective marketing can build a legend in a short period of time. Salt Lick is the top candidate, followed by Stubb's, County Line, Rudy's. Essentially what you would get if you polled the general Austin population.

So Mr. Stubb has a Q joint in Austin? I see his sauce on plenty of supermarket shelves in the Philadelphia area.

Which brings me back to a persistent puzzlement of mine: Why Ollie Gates has never bothered to take his sauce national. Maybe it has to do with quality control.

Sandy Smith, Exile on Oxford Circle, Philadelphia

"95% of success in life is showing up." --Woody Allen

My foodblogs: 1 | 2 | 3

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I say put your photo where your mouth is or prove you know what you are talking about. So, I have been pursuing the best - breaded pork tenderloin sandwich and think I have the proof to back my claims. What I have found so far is that a lot of people don't know what they are talking about when they make recommendations. They only recommend what they know and sometimes that recommendation was from many years ago. Just two days ago I got an email commenting to my web site and the responder said "Yuk" and that none of those pork tenderloins could match the ones he had in his hometown in Illinois. Mind you this guy is now living in Texas and was referring to 1950. :biggrin:

Davydd

It is just an Anglicized Welsh spelling for David to celebrate my English/Welsh ancestry. The Welsh have no "v" in their alphabet or it would be spelled Dafydd.

I must warn you. My passion is the Breaded Pork Tenderloin Sandwich

Now blogging: Pork Tenderloin Sandwich Blog

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Not to dump on the ignorant masses again, but I once found myself in Little Rock, Arkansas, and figured I'd get some ribs. I must have asked everyone in the Holiday Inn where to get the best ribs and, to a man, they pointed me to the Tony Roma's on the tourist-laden Riverwalk (or whatever the heck they called it). Finally found some older guiy working as a doorman, pointed us in the direction of neighborhood where yuppies like myself rarely trod. Great ribs, great atmosphere, and a great smile from the older lady who owned the place when we walked in and ordered. Maybe not the "best" but -- having eaten at Tone Roma's -- superior in every way to what was popularly perceived as "the best."

I'm on the pavement

Thinking about the government.

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My SO was just commenting yesterday about trying to not use absolutes when discussung food; so the caveat of "that I've had so far" seems like an acceptable way of couching their comments to me. She mentioned using "relative to the restaurants I've been to", "compared to the other ones I remember", etc.

While taking physics, my older brother printed posters saying "In Relation To What?" I like relationships. Give me something I can compare your superlative to-- so I can relate.....

If someone is comparing The McRibs sandwich to a Sam's sandwich then it should make you wonder. If the've never left Kansas then their judgement or loyalties would be suspect, too.

I remember one of my first trips to a distant state from my home in Dallas, Texas. I was about 31. I was in Baltimore and had a hot, grilled sandwich; a cheese-steak sandwich. I went back the next day and had a crab (crabcake?) sandwich. I was in heaven. I did not know this kind of food existed! Was it great? At the time I thought so. Now, I can't remember how good it really was (compared to the many I've had since) but it sparked a desire to explore food like it.

Banished from Chowhound; I like it just fine on eGullet!

If you`re not big enough to lose, you`re not big enough to win! Try this jalapeno, son. It ain't hot...

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I'm not trying to argue with you. I am honestly curious as to what BBQ restaurants in Austin are considered by others as being "nostalgic."
...some wax philosophically about Sam's or Stubbs, some Ruby's, Artz, County Line, or something.

Ah, thanks. :rolleyes:

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

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Finally found some older guiy working as a doorman, pointed us in the direction of neighborhood where yuppies like myself rarely trod. Great ribs, great atmosphere, and a great smile from the older lady who owned the place when we walked in and ordered.

Do you happen to remember the name of this place? I get down there from time to time and would love to know.

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

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Finally found some older guiy working as a doorman, pointed us in the direction of neighborhood where yuppies like myself rarely trod. Great ribs, great atmosphere, and a great smile from the older lady who owned the place when we walked in and ordered.

Do you happen to remember the name of this place? I get down there from time to time and would love to know.

I looked on the web for it and I couldn't find a listing that rang a bell. I want to say "Pearl's" or something like that -- seemed like the name of the lady who ran it and who was not young in 1992. Maybe there's a local Arkansan around who recalls?

I'm on the pavement

Thinking about the government.

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Vince Staten and Greg Anderson subscribe to this philosophy:  In their book Real Barbecue, recently reissued and updated, they refuse to say a place is "the best" -- as far as they go is "as good as we've ever had."  And they explain why: (Paraphrasing) For all they know, as they're eating the best barbecue ever, someone else, somewhere else, is building a pit, hanging a sign reading "BBQ," and serving 'cue the likes of which the world has not yet seen.  That's a very sensible approach, IMO.

Agreed. And this is true of some genres more than others. Barbecue, Southern cuisine and soul food are genres that are tied to rural and lower-income groups -- as opposed to cheesesteak which I think is more urban. It's likely that there are great restaurants that are getting by serving their local customers and have not bothered at all with publicity.

Barbecue less so, as it does require a significant investment in resources to build a pit. But home style cuisine like soul food and Southern cuisine are not as well-known and evaluated by the media and internet. Two of the best (so far in my experience) Southern cuisine restaurants in Austin are very well hidden and were only recently discovered by internet sources. One, Lola's, is in a dilapidated 15-seat building, the other, Reggie's, is served out of a trailer in a parking lot. I think it's highly probable that there are other terrific Southern cuisine restaurants out there that have yet to be discovered.

So Mr. Stubb has a Q joint in Austin?  I see his sauce on plenty of supermarket shelves in the Philadelphia area.

Yes, it's a live music venue that also serves barbecue. Much of the fame comes from the music venue, and not from producing quality barbecue. The same can be said of Threadgill's in Austin, a popular music venue that serves Southern cuisine. Common sense should prevail here: Does a venue primarily focused on music have any incentive to serve superlative food?

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So Mr. Stubb has a Q joint in Austin?  I see his sauce on plenty of supermarket shelves in the Philadelphia area.
Yes, it's a live music venue that also serves barbecue.

Well, yes...

And no.

Mr. Stubblefield (Stubb) is dead. He died in 1995. Stubb's in Austin opened in 1996.

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

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I used Woodie's BBQ sauce till I moved from TX to CT; Woodies is not to be found here. Now I use spicy Stubbs. Very similar. My two top favorites.

Stubb's put some of "him" in every bottle, so I guess that killed him.

Banished from Chowhound; I like it just fine on eGullet!

If you`re not big enough to lose, you`re not big enough to win! Try this jalapeno, son. It ain't hot...

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If it's not possible to educate one's palate, what are we all doing here anyway?

Good question. Do you really think we're all here in order to educate the palates of the "misinformed"?

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

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I completely agree with Jaymes. I was thinking about this very idea. We are not here, in this forum, to preach to and convert the misguided, unwashed masses.

I think (perhaps) we're here to preach to the choir. :)

Banished from Chowhound; I like it just fine on eGullet!

If you`re not big enough to lose, you`re not big enough to win! Try this jalapeno, son. It ain't hot...

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I completely agree with Jaymes. I was thinking about this very idea. We are not here, in this forum, to preach to and convert the misguided, unwashed masses.

I think (perhaps) we're here to preach to the choir. :) 

Giving MarketStEl the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he means we are here to educate our own palates.

But that's certainly not the tone of much of this thread.

And speaking just for myself, I happen to like the current education level of my own palate. I'm here in order to garner more delicious stuff with which to feed my already adequately-educated palate.

I'm not here to look down my nose at those I deem to be less "informed" than I.

"Regional" or otherwise.

Edited by Jaymes (log)

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

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Any elitism and snobbery on my part is perceived. I have no desire to educate or proselytize the uninterested, nor to thumb my nose at them. I started this thread simply to discuss this phenomenon, and how it differs from region to region -- and I feel that we have been quite successful in this regard.

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Any elitism and snobbery on my part is perceived. I have no desire to educate or proselytize the uninterested, nor to thumb my nose at them. I started this thread simply to discuss this phenomenon, and how it differs from region to region -- and I feel that we have been quite successful in this regard.

Thank you for clearing that up.

It's obvious I do not understand the meaning of the phrase, "Misinformed regional pride."

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

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As for cheesesteaks in Philly, I always thought Sarcone's was way above the whiz places...

Missed this the first time...

AFAIK, Sarcone's Deli made a damn good hoagie, but I hadn't heard they did cheesesteaks too. Of course, since the bread is as important as the fillings for either sandwich, and Sarcone's makes some of the best hoagie rolls in town (the same rolls are used for cheesesteaks), it wouldn't surprise me if Sarcone's did make a great cheesesteak.

Which, in a sense, underscores Jaymes' point -- but...

I completely agree with Jaymes. I was thinking about this very idea. We are not here, in this forum, to preach to and convert the misguided, unwashed masses.

I think (perhaps) we're here to preach to the choir. :) 

Giving MarketStEl the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he means we are here to educate our own palates.

But that's certainly not the tone of much of this thread.

And speaking just for myself, I happen to like the current education level of my own palate. I'm here in order to garner more delicious stuff with which to feed my already adequately-educated palate.

I'm not here to look down my nose at those I deem to be less "informed" than I.

"Regional" or otherwise.

I hope I'm not coming off as judging those with different tastes from me harshly, and you are half right on your charitable statement above.

I think it's also possible for someone who knows a cuisine to educate the palate of someone who doesn't. You do it more in this manner:

"Here's what to look for in..."

as opposed to

"You poor, benighted fellow."

In my rib example above, when my friend said they were the best ribs he ever had, I explained to him why I've had better, since in that case, the inferior quality was largely the result of preparation, not of taste -- their flavor really wasn't all that bad, but you could tell by their appearance and from their consistency in your mouth--a touch too much fattiness--that they had not been slow-smoked.

Now, I will allow that there are probably those who prefer their ribs parboiled before finishing on a grill or in a smoker. That's fine, but technically speaking, those are not barbecued ribs.

Someone prefers McDonald's burgers to Wendy's or Five Guys or In-n-Out? That's purely a matter of taste*, and as such, can't be argued.** I may not share that view, and most connoisseurs may not either, but what we think there is irrelevant to the person eating the burger.

*or maybe not, if those recent studies that demonstrate the power of branding are any guide.

**Which doesn't mean that I've never done this.

Sandy Smith, Exile on Oxford Circle, Philadelphia

"95% of success in life is showing up." --Woody Allen

My foodblogs: 1 | 2 | 3

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