If not black olives...

[johnsmith45678]

First off, what's wrong with black olives? I think I recently heard them bad-mouthed on some cooking show. I've bought canned black olives from the grocery store for a long time and use them in salads, on pizza, with chicken, and other stuff. I think they're okay, if salty and metallic tasting.

Secondly, if black olives are crap, what to use instead? I think I tried kalamata olives a long time ago, and I've seen the smorgasboard of olives at Whole Foods, but I don't know anything about all the various types.

Anybody help?

Edited August 18, 2006 by johnsmith45678 (log)

[srhcb]

I don't care for black olives myself, but GF and everyone in her family loves them so I always have a can around.

I found the brine works good for braising beef roasts.

[tino27]

My take on olives from the can is that they are simply a mechanism for delivering salt to the mouth. I find that they really don't bring a lot of their own flavor to the party.

However, I do like Kalamata and simply adore Nicoise olives (when I can find them) and will happily use either for all sorts of dishes.

[Dana]

Why don't you get several cartons of different kinds of olives - maybe start with 5 or 6. Take them home and taste them. I will almost guarantee that you'll never buy those canned things again. Notice I didn't call them olives.

[CaliPoutine]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I really like canned black olives. I think it might come from childhood. My mom always made us cream cheese and olive sandwiches and whenever we had salad, lindsey olives were on top( along with good seasons italian dressing). It's funny, because my mom is an excellent cook( and so am I), But, we like what we like eh?

Now, that being said, I don't like green olives at all. ( except in Picadillo).

[BarbaraY]

I think many of us who grew up with canned black olives still like them. I do, even though I love almost every type of real olives.

Somehow the egg salad sandwich with minced olives wouldn't be the same with Kalamata olives.

I say eat what you like but check out other foods.

[Angela Alaimo]

Black olives, I've been told, have been chemically treated in some manner to turn them black, and then they are "sterilized". I reckon those steps are what give them their own special taste.

Back when I lived in the old country, southern Indiana, we only had little green olives with the pimentos in the middle. It wasn't until I was in my late teens before I learned about the exotic black olive.

We usually keep both the black ones and real (untreated? unpitted? You know what I mean) ones around the house. And we also get jars of some big green ones that Goya sells, pull out the pimentos, an install a blanched almond instead. A little time back in the brine and you get a usually-expensive treat for a fraction of the cost. Wonder if it would work with the black ones?

[Oceangroveguy]

"Wonder if it would work with the black ones?"

Probably, but finding black ones stuffed with pimentos to pull out might be tough.....

[gariotin]

I can help here - I have been selling "real" olives for many years, including most of those on the olive bars in WF stores.

The major difference between Lindsey or commercial olives and "real" olives is the use of lye, or other caustic chemicals. Olives must be cured to be edible. When treated with lye, olives can be cured in a matter of hours. Naturally cured olives are held in tanks of salt water, and the salinity is constantly monitered. This takes months, but you end up with an olive that is not compromised in texture or flavor. This also affects price - as you can imagine, if you can turn over your stock quickly, the price can be lower. Naturally cured olives will always be more expensive because the stock must be held during curing.

I have always heard this apocryphal story, so don't know that it is true - that when the old Lindsey plant closed down to move into a larger facility, the land around it was declared an EPA disaster site due to the many years of lye leaching into the ground.

I think Dana's suggestion is a great one - go to that WF, or a store that you know has top-quality olives, and buy a few different types to taste and compare. Curing methods can result in very different textures - oil cured black olives will always be soft and a little chewy, while brine cured olives like kalamatas or green olives will be crunchier. A favorite is a French varietal called a Picholine - it is bright green and sometimes has a buttery flavor, but very crunchy.

As to canned olives, I find that once you have gotten used to fresh olives that are unpasteurized, it is hard to enjoy canned olives. The act of canning cooks them a bit in the tin, affecting the color and texture.\

Let us know what you like!

[Smithy]

The Lindsay plant story is more or less true. I don't know that it turned into a Superfund site, but there was a lot of remediation to be done from the brine leaking from the leaching ponds. I presume the new plant uses steel vats. I'll have to ask about that some time when I'm 'home'.

I still love those black olives, and I assert that they're as "real" as any others. The others are great: kalamatas cured in vinegar and packed in oil and vinegar are a particular favorite of mine. It was a pleasure to branch out and begin learning the different results obtained from different olive varieties and different treatments. Nonetheless, I keep Lindsay Olives (black ripe, green ripe and Spanish style) on hand and they're a staple with my cooking in places where a kalamata would be too sharp.

[johnsmith45678]

I remember now -- the show was Good Eats "Olive Me."

Heh:

For most Americans, olives come in two varieties, Greenus bottlus, and Blackus incanius.

As for black, canned, California, "ripe" olives, well when people tell me they don't like olives, I suspect it's because they've been eating these. Their distinct lack of flavor stems from the fact that they're not actually preserved in a brine or by salt but by the cooking that comes with the canning process. And once they're opened, they're as susceptible to spoilage as any other canned good. The only thing really distinct about this kind of olive is the color: that's shiny black, which comes courtesy of oxidation and a dip in a ferrous gluconate solution. Yum.

Here's the transcript.

[gariotin]

Thanks for the info, Smithy - been telling that story for years, but always preface it with a disclaimer.

[DerekW]

Hi gariotin

Can you offer any explanation or description of the processing used to produce "Moroccan olives"? The ones we get here are bulk, with an intense rich [and salty] flavour, pit in. Just about the opposite end of the spectrum from those tinned processed faucet washers

In truth, I'm a little scared that you might tell us something I do not want to hear, but boy, do the 'Moroccan' olives taste good...

[gariotin]

I'm happy to report that "Moroccan" olives are just fine - they are an excellent example of an oil-cured olive. Oil cure is also kinda a misnomer - because first they are cured in layers of salt, which acts as an agent to extract the bitterness and cure the olive. After curing and rinsing, the typical oil cure olive will be tossed w/oil and often aromatics like garlic or herbs to re-hydrate the flesh of the olives. I love the rich, unctuous flesh that results - they are very intense and delicious. Most French olives that are called "black w/herbes de Provence" use this method and get their raw material from Morocco. There is not much of an olive harvest left in France anymore, outside of the wonderful varietals like Lucques, Picholines, Cassee de Baux, Nicoise, etc. The best French manufacturers have long and loyal family relationships with Moroccan growers, so they import the olives and then cure and flavor them in France.

Canning makes them even softer - try to get "fresh", i.e. unpasteurized ones if you can, but they are always delicious and a little goes a long way in a dish.

BTW, if you are assured that you are getting high quality olives, the brine is a great ingredient, so dont' throw it out. I use it in soups, stews, salad dressings, or a great braising liquid for chard or spinach. I always have several containers or jars of brine in the fridge, just because you never know when it will come in handy!

[goldie]

As you are trying the different olives (because I agree this is the best way to go), you might want to think about what it is that you like about the canned olives. For example, if it is the texture then a an olive such as the nicoise or the piccoline might do the trick. If you enjoy the tinnish taste (let's call it minerality because that is oh so nice ) then try an oiled cured (they look like the raisins on steroids). But to be honest, I think if you like something then there is no problem and you should eat what you enjoy. Yes, it is good to try new things that might expand your taste buds, but at the end of the day (after experiencing new things) go with what gives you pleasure.

[Kim Shook]

Put me into the "I like all olives" camp. My only stipulation is that the canned black ones and the jarred green w/ pimento ones have to be LARGE and seriously crisp. But I like all the stinky, shriveldy, oily, salty, etal. ones, too.

[Ohba]

No way is there anything wrong with black olives just for being black olives. However, if you're buying a cheapish canned product then you are not tasting olives as they should be tasted, and it's that they're canned, not that they're black, that's the problem. Fine if you enjoy them anyway, but olives are not a generic product, and they can be so much better than that.

Edited August 21, 2006 by Ohba (log)

[scubadoo97]

grew up with the basic canned black olive and I have fond memories of cream cheese and black olive sandwiches. My kids love them but I'd much prefer something with a little more taste like a kalamata or other stronger tasting olive. I love the Moroccan dried cured black olives.

[alacarte]

I like black olives very much. Open a can of jumbos, pop one on each finger, enjoy like you're all of six years old.

But if you're looking to substitute for a recipe for someone who can't stand olives, you might try adding capers instead to add a bit of saltiness and tang, like olives do, or perhaps capers and an anchovy or two. But the texture won't be the same.

[MomOfLittleFoodies]

I like olives, black, green, kalamata or otherwise.

[tino27]

I had the great fortune to stumble across the olive bar at Jungle Jim's near Cincinnati, OH and finally found a green olive that I adore as much as the nicoise -- the picholine. I greedily scooped up a pound or so and am now contemplating what to do with the lovely little morsels (other than just eating them straight from the container ).

[MarkinHouston]

Once you branch out from the canned black olives and the bottled green olives, it's difficult to go back down that road. We have both Whole Foods and Central Market in Houston, and even the grocery stores have samll olive bars now, but what really expanded my olive horizon was a Middle Eastern grocer/specialty store. They have about twenty different olives to choose from--my current favorite is an oil-cured black Moroccan olive with walnuts.

Good tips there from gariotin!

[johnsmith45678]

I stopped by Whole Foods tonight and tried most of the different types of olives in their olive bar. Mmm, most of them were sooo good (some were too briney for my liking). Kalamatas, nicoises, and a bunch of others I don't remember. Some were almost like eating fruit, they were so juicy and fruity tasting (yeah, olives are probably fruit, but you know what I mean!). They had some big olives stuffed with habaneros - WOW! I don't think I've ever had habaneros before -- it was intensely and powerfully hot, but it never became painful and didn't stick around too long -- I liked it! They had olives stuffed with almonds too. All the olives were sooo much better than the black olives in a can, or the green ones stuffed with pimentos in a jar.

[Torrilin]

I've had some traditionally prepped olives that were quite awful, and some that are just to die for delicious. They vary quite a bit.

Unfortunately, traditionally cured olives must be high in the same chemical that's in sharp cheeses... If I eat too many, I get a headache just like with the cheese. Sadly, this means no feta for me, and I limit my olive consumption.

Emily

[Smithy]

BTW, if you are assured that you are getting high quality olives, the brine is a great ingredient, so dont' throw it out.  I use it in soups, stews, salad dressings, or a great braising liquid for chard or spinach.  I always have several containers or jars of brine in the fridge, just because you never know when it will come in handy!

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This is a great tip, and I wish I'd thought of it before. Today's lunch salad was dressed with a vinaigrette incorporating some of the oil/vinegar brine from a jar of kalamatas. It was wonderful. Thanks for the idea!