Contradictions in Consumer Preferences

[Fat Guy]

As you might imagine, not only because I'm nosy but also because it's my profession, I take a keen interest in what the other people on line are buying at the supermarket. Lately I've noticed that a lot more folks are buying organic milk and organic eggs.

Many of these people do not, however, seem to be buying organic anything else. Indeed, they fill their carts with processed industrial crapola like Froot Loops and Easy Cheese, but for whatever reason they draw the line at milk and eggs.

Of course, the organic milk they're buying in the big chain supermarkets is also industrially processed -- it's ultra-pasteurized so it can sit on the shelves for 70 days without going bad -- but at least only organic foodstuffs will touch their Froot Loops.

[munchymom]

A lot of people buy organic dairy, eggs, and meat because they're under the impression that the animals involved are treated more humanely. Unfortunately, most of the time this impression is incorrect (see the chapter in Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma about Industrial Organic food.)

[highchef]

I like the taste of the milk much better, good organic seems less watery and richer than store brand milk.

That said, I've heard theories from some M.D.'s that I know and trust, that they believe there is a link between added hormones, nasty feed and other additives and conditons the dairy is processed under that can cause prostate problems. The thinking is that the dairy is more readily absorbed by the body and therefore everything in it. I cannot verify this theory, but I buy organic dairy just in case it proves to be true. Besides I like it.

Fruit loops are not allowed in my house. No pre-sweetened cereal is.

Not to say we don't use sugar, but that's another story.

[Chris Amirault]

American Public Media's Marketplace had a story on this very subject today, on the expansion of organic opportunities. The story emphasizes in particular that organic milk is flying off the shelves:

Huge demand has created a severe organic milk shortage that drives the big price difference. With organic milk running two-and-a-half times the nonorganic price, Getz has growing company around Vermont.

Across the Green Mountains in tiny Washington, Vermont, Russ Deberville is rejoining the business his family abandoned 20 years ago.

The Debervilles stopped milking because they couldn't make money at it. But Russ Deberville says the economics of organic change dairying for small farms especially.

[johnsmith45678]

I'm the opposite -- I buy the "healthier" cereals and the cheap milk...

[maggiethecat]

American Public Media's Marketplace had a story on this very subject today, on the expansion of organic opportunities. The story emphasizes in particular that organic milk is flying off the shelves:

Huge demand has created a severe organic milk shortage that drives the big price difference. With organic milk running two-and-a-half times the nonorganic price, Getz has growing company around Vermont.

Across the Green Mountains in tiny Washington, Vermont, Russ Deberville is rejoining the business his family abandoned 20 years ago.

The Debervilles stopped milking because they couldn't make money at it. But Russ Deberville says the economics of organic change dairying for small farms especially.

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You beat me to it, Chris. My husband was so enchanted by the story that I might have my very own milking parlor in the Green Mountains.

My supermarket doesn't offer organic milk, but it has two kinds of pricey organic eggs in complicated plastic containers -- lose the packaging, Dudes, and shave fifty cents off the price of a dozen. One kind is free range, the other isn't. Romantic fool that I am, you know the dozen I buy. I can get farm eggs -- beauties and cheap --organic, but as the farmer told me: semi-free range.

Steven, the journey of a thousand miles, etc. I agree that parents who buy Count Chockula should have to go through something like Driving School or AA, but if they're doing one thing right, it's a start.

Confession: I'm too busy getting a free peek at the Enquirer while I'm waiting in line to snoop in other people's carts. Besides, I know what they'll contain: Six liters of on sale Pepsi, Pokemon Mac and Cheese, and twelve Lean Cuisines. If there's a carton of organic eggs in there, it makes me happy. It's something.

[BigboyDan]

I'm the opposite -- I buy the "healthier" cereals and the cheap milk...

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Yep, me too. I try and buy organic vegetables and meats at every opportunity, though. Hmmm... maybe I...

[Fat Guy]

I like the taste of the milk much better, good organic seems less watery and richer than store brand milk.

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I wonder if what you're tasting is the effect of ultrapasteurization -- the heating of milk to around 280 degrees -- common to the major brands of organic milk. None of the organic milk I recently saw at the supermarket was locally produced -- it all came from hundreds of miles away. It seems that when you buy organic milk in the supermarket you're getting milk from cows that have been fed according to organic guidelines, but the tradeoff is that your milk is ultrapasteurized and shipped long distances and therefore likely older than the local non-organic milk at the same supermarket.

lose the packaging, Dudes, and shave fifty cents off the price of a dozen.

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I think again this may have to do with shipping. I imagine those Land-O-Lakes organic eggs are coming from a longer distance than the cheap store-brand eggs, simply because a national brand can't possibly have as many production nodes as the gigantic network of local farms that provides milk and eggs to local supermarkets across North America. Once you start shipping eggs long distance and charging serious money for them, it becomes worthwhile to invest in technology to protect them from breakage. That packaging also, I think, gives the appearance of a premium product. I agree, though, that the trifold plastic egg containers suck -- they're a huge pain especially if you just want to grab an egg from the fridge for a recipe, because you need both hands, a square foot of counter space, and your full attention to extract an egg.

[markk]

I snoop too because I am intrigued by what people buy and eat, but I would say that the people I see buying organic milk and eggs are pretty much not buying processed foods, and I'm always impressed by that, that they got it right, I mean.

But I also see a frighteningly lot of people buying entire carts full of crap; I mean the other day I saw a woman with a 7 or 8 year old girl (who was severely overweight), and they had a cart full of Count Chocula and Fruit Loops, cartons of fruit "drinks" that are pure high-fructose corn sweetner, and the complete line Hostess and Tastycake packaged cupcakes and things like Twinkies and the chocolate things with the creme inside, and lots of candy. They had nothing organic, or even resembling food, in their cart, and I see this all the time.

On a related note, today I bought Grape Jelly for the first time in perhaps 20 years, and as I looked at the brands in the supermarket, I saw that Smuckers had an "organic" version; whatever kind of grape was in there (I didn't notice but I presume it's organic), I noticed that it contained only "organic sugar" but no high-fructose sweetner, but that all the other brand did.

[Heidi the Pilgrim]

The levels of rBGH and IGF-1 in milk aren't normal levels, for anyone or anyTHING, and it's genetically modified besides. You have to wonder how much Monsanto is paying off in campaign contributions to not be required to do human studies on the effects of ingesting this crap. I had enough 'hormone' issues to not touch regular milk, ever, I'll happily pay more for organic....of course for my organic cereal with organic fruit, and Newman's oreos....

[Kent Wang]

I also prefer the taste of organic milk but I have heard that this is because they simply add a bit more milkfat. Can anyone substantiate this?

[johnsmith45678]

"Genetically-modified" doesn't scare me. Much ado about nothing.

[BigboyDan]

It's all "genetically-modified", just some of it by farmers over the last 30,000 years, and other by Monsanto last year. Heck, all farmed food-stuffs and domesticated animals have been genetically-modified by man...

[johnsmith45678]

It's all "genetically-modified", just some of it by farmers over the last 30,000 years, and other by Monsanto last year. Heck, all farmed food-stuffs and domesticated animals have been genetically-modified by man...

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Totally.

[acautrell]

I buy organic milk occaisonally, maybe once every couple of months. I've noticed (though maybe it's all in my head) that the flavor of the organic milk can vary quite a bit, including one carton that just tasted so "grassy" that I couldn't drink it. In comparison, it seems like the normal store-brand skim milk always tastes exactly the same.

And yes, I will pour organic milk on my processed Cheerios, or drink it with my Cheezits.

[jkonick]

In my opinion, organic milk tastes better than non-organic, but sugar-loaded junk cereals taste better than the organic or health food-y ones. Healthier? Certainly not. Tastier? Certainly!

[Heidi the Pilgrim]

It's all "genetically-modified", just some of it by farmers over the last 30,000 years, and other by Monsanto last year. Heck, all farmed food-stuffs and domesticated animals have been genetically-modified by man...

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Selective breeding is not the same as genetically spliced.

[ghostrider]

I have yet to see any organic milk in the supermarkets in my corner of Jersey.

Either there's a huge market here waiting to be tapped, or the organic mega-merchants have already done focus groups, concluded that there are too many brain-damaged shoppers from years of exposure to Jersey toxins, and written us off as impervious to organic marketing.

Time will tell, I suppose.

[BarbaraY]

We recently bought a half gallon of raw organic milk for my daughter to make yogurt. It was without a doubt the best yogurt we have ever tasted with a nice creamy top.

Very pricey but way good for a treat.

I was raised on raw milk from my grandparents cows. Pasteurized milk took a long while to get used to and I still have never found cottage cheese or butter to compare with the home made.

Edited August 17, 2006 by BarbaraY (log)

[Fat Guy]

I guess it's hard to separate the issues, however what I was really focused on when I started this discussion was the contradictory/inconsistent behavior I'm starting to see among consumers in the general population. Surely we could debate the merits of organic milk and eggs versus conventional, and it's no surprise that the American consumer buys a lot of processed garbage. What I've been seeing, however, is a milk-and-eggs exception. It seems that the same consumers who buy a lot of processed garbage are nonetheless buying organic milk and eggs. Maybe it's because, especially with milk, there has been a lot of word-of-mouth and forwarded-email pseudo-scientific rumor circulating about how the hormones in dairy cause early puberty, etc., and that has somehow caused the average consumer to draw a line, kind of like when people get the Big Mac extra value meal with Diet Coke. I don't know. It's definitely something I've seen enough examples of, however, that it can't possibly be a fluke -- it seems to be what a lot of people are doing.

[markk]

It seems that the same consumers who buy a lot of processed garbage are nonetheless buying organic milk and eggs. Maybe it's because, especially with milk, there has been a lot of word-of-mouth and forwarded-email pseudo-scientific rumor circulating about how the hormones in dairy cause early puberty, etc., and that has somehow caused the average consumer to draw a line,

Well, I know a lot of parents who buy organic milk, and somehow when you reach for something that kids need and which you traditionally think of as "wholesome", the carton that says "organic" makes you think that the other milks which don't, and are right there in the same dairy case, have all kinds of hormones antibiotics and things that don't belong in milk, and are not what you want to feed to your growing children. Besides, I don't think kids can taste the difference between organic and non-organic milk. But when it comes to cereals, the "health-food" cereals that don't have the high-fructose corn sweetner or partially hydrogenated fats, etc., are usually in a totally different aisle, perhaps even an aisle that many people don't even venture into, so it may never occur to them that there's a choice; but also, in this case, kids can certainly taste the difference, and if you give a kid an unsweetened whole grain cereal instead of his Frosted Count Chocula Loops, he'll likely spit it out and demand the regular cereal. So it might be that parents who are rushing through the supermarket don't know that there are choices in things other than milk and eggs, and it might be that if they're only somewhat health-conscious or just paying lip-service to it, they can get their kids to drink organic milk much easier than they can get them to eat other healthier options, which require some pretty difficult parenting, and ease their consciences with the thought that they did buy the organic milk and eggs at least.

[miladyinsanity]

It's the same thing here.

I've relatives who pay 2-3 times the regular price to buy French organic dairy products etc at Carrefour, and at the same time, my cousins are inhaling Froot Loops and Cocoa Puffs.

[cakewalk]

People are inconsistent. It's our right -- perhaps even part of our definition -- as human beings, y'know?

I mean, take this place, for example. There is thread after thread in praise of junk food, and they're pretty dern particular about it, too. And in almost the same breath there's the adulation of all the biggies (I don't want to go through the whole list, I'm sure I don't need to spell it out for you.) And there's stuff like the precision necessary for perfection in baking (1/2 tsp soda, no 1/4 tsp soda, no 1/4 tsp plus a little pinch, etc.) vs. the ecstasy of deep fried twinkies. So how do you reconcile that?

I don't think one is very different from the other.

BTW -- I'm in the camp that will only buy healthy cereals, but I buy regular milk. And I buy cheap butter unless I'm baking something special. And I use regular eggs in baking but I try to get organic free range eggs if I'm just gonna eat the eggs. There's no rhyme or reason in any of that. But we're all entitle to our idiosynchracies.

[phaelon56]

90% of my at home milk consumption (apart from ice cream and cheese) gets into my system in the form of six ounce lattes (3.5 oz of foamed milk plus the espresso) - a few each day on weekends. Lately I have purchased organic milk on occasion to see if I can detect the supposedly superior taste and texture characteristics - but thus far I can't. That said... now that I'm well into reading "The Omnivore's Dilemma" it's become evident why it doesn't seem much different (because I'm getting industrial organic supermarket milk).

I'm surprised that North Jersey supermarkets (Ghostrider's locale) don't have much in the way of organic milk. It's in just about every decent sized supermarket here - not just in the big fancy Wegman's - and central NY state is a very blue collar economically depressed area. Even among the non-organic store brands there is always a choice between non BGH milk and the hormone laden stuff (and almost no price difference between the two).

I think it's time for me to check out my neighborhood food co-op and see what locally produced organic milk they have - I'm curious to see if I'll discover the difference.

But the seemingly contradictions and schisms in people among what they will and won't eat are not only amazing but preceded the current phase. I've met or known of more than a few people who won't eat pork because (their words) it's an "unclean" mea. But then they'll take a break from the holiday dinner table and go outside to have some cognac, smoke a cigarette or maybe even get a quick hit or two on a crack pipe

[JohnL]

I think with dairy products mouthfeel is important.

One big problem is additives/stabilizers like guar gum

and carageenan--somewhat tolerable in Half and Half etc

but for me intolerable in ice cream (most anyway).

I am sure these are "organic" --but to me organic has little meaning.

It seems to be pretty confused given some threads and discussions here and elsewhere.

In the end--for me--it is about flavor--good tasting things whether they are processed or not.

(I like processed cheese stuff--melted on a cheese steak or on a slice of Wonder bread!!!)

I also love artisinal cheeses like Vermont Shepherd and Coach and....

If I am in the mood for a BLT I may go for the riper better tasting (to me) hot house tomato over the locally grown so called "heirloom" that has little taste.

I also have had some outrageous tasting heirlooms!

I like a twinkie now and then and also love local NY fois gras (natural and organic and local) but I also do not eat either the twinkies or the fois gras three times a week!

(the great lesson Morgan Spurlock taught us is--moderation--not abstinence)

so--yes a lot of folks will order that diet coke with the supersized happy meal--but in the end the key is "happy."

We try to do what we can to balance the need for pleasure and enjoyment with the fear of death--and somehow get through life as best we can!