Who Owns a Baker's Recipes?

[Timh]

You should have quit yesterday. Life is too short to cook crappy food, or work in undesireable positions. There are better positions out there and if one is industrious, creative, and flexible, there are better opportunities to be had.

[andrewB]

Huh, I was under the impression it was your own bakery (perhaps you should start your own ). But, yeah, I've also worked with people to whom cooking was just a "job." Working at such places was so unfun.

The dilemma? I have offered up many items out of my personal recipe collection. Stuff that I have collected and tweaked over the years to make my own. Many of these items have become best sellers there. I'm upset and angry at my employers and I just want to take all these recipes back so they can't sell them any more. They haven't been savvy enough to make their own copies or anything, so once they are out of the recipe book, they're gone. I know this is my emotional side talking. Is taking back my recipes ethical? Is there some sort of law that says once I've produced them for that business, that they now "own" the recipes? Will I just be creating trouble for myself? Anyone else been in a similar situation?

I'm curious about this as well. I've wondered what happens when a chef leaves -- whose recipes are they? In a lot of other professions when you are employed by somebody, they usually own the work you produce for them. There recently was a head chef change at a well-known local restaurant (Mel's), and the place kept a lot of the old dishes, but also added a lot of new items created by the new chef (many of which I think he brought from the last place he was a chef).

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The recipes belong to the chef i think. in my case, when we change the menu, i basically sell the restaurant my recipes for that season. to be sneaky though, i take all the old kitchen books home and the translations are done on my computer so i have the originals ))

[Desiderio]

While I dont have much experience on working in a professional enviroment ( I did and was long time ago ), I can say that I agree completely on the respect factor.The fact that the boss feels like he or she in this case can do whatever she wants or say , just because they pay the bills , I really dont think so ,that doesnt have anything to do with respect, if you have workers expecially good ones , wich arent easy to find, you make sure you treat them well and with respect , having different opinion on how things needs to be done is another thing and its part of the job/work enviroment expecially if you work for someone else.

I really hope you will find you place , either your own or with a better boss ,in any case I second the fact that life is too short to be working for someone that doesnt appreaciat you not even a bit or doeasnt treat you right ( thats part of been a good human been by the way respect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!),I do a job that I dont like ( like many people),and I cant change it because it pays the bills and they treat me very well so thats do the trick for now .

The best of luck to you with all my heart.

[Patrick S]

Huh, I was under the impression it was your own bakery (perhaps you should start your own ). But, yeah, I've also worked with people to whom cooking was just a "job." Working at such places was so unfun.

The dilemma? I have offered up many items out of my personal recipe collection. Stuff that I have collected and tweaked over the years to make my own. Many of these items have become best sellers there. I'm upset and angry at my employers and I just want to take all these recipes back so they can't sell them any more. They haven't been savvy enough to make their own copies or anything, so once they are out of the recipe book, they're gone. I know this is my emotional side talking. Is taking back my recipes ethical? Is there some sort of law that says once I've produced them for that business, that they now "own" the recipes? Will I just be creating trouble for myself? Anyone else been in a similar situation?

I'm curious about this as well. I've wondered what happens when a chef leaves -- whose recipes are they? In a lot of other professions when you are employed by somebody, they usually own the work you produce for them. There recently was a head chef change at a well-known local restaurant (Mel's), and the place kept a lot of the old dishes, but also added a lot of new items created by the new chef (many of which I think he brought from the last place he was a chef).

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The recipes belong to the chef i think.

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It depends on what you mean by 'recipe.' As discussed earlier in the thread, in most cases (e.g. where there is no contract to produce a recipe specifically for the restaurant), the chef will only own the physical copies of a recipe that they created, and may have copyright over a specific literary expression of a recipe, but the chef will not own the ideas or the methods themselves. If chefpeon's coworkers know her recipes already, and do not need chefpeon's written copies to make them, I dont think she has any way to prevent them from doing so.

Edited October 12, 2006 by Patrick S (log)

[chefpeon]

If chefpeon's coworkers know her recipes already, and do not need chefpeon's written copies to make them

No worries about that! They live and die by "the book". They are totally lost without it.

I even re-wrote every single recipe with my improvements, tweaks and exact methodology.

It will stay with them. It's a small town and I may need their reference for a new job.

[FWED]

Sorry to hear about the situation. Is there any chance of giving the boss an ultimatum. That the baking kitchen isn't big enough for the boss's wife and the head baker. And so either the wife stays out of the kitchen and doesn't mess with the product or the head baker walks. Don't know if that would work but its worth thinking about. maybe some time off will bring him to his senses when business begins to suffer.

[prasantrin]

No worries about that! They live and die by "the book". They are totally lost without it.

I even re-wrote every single recipe with my improvements, tweaks and exact methodology.

It will stay with them. It's a small town and I may need their reference for a new job.

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About the recipes, I think it's great you're willing to leave them for them. When you do quit, however, (if you haven't already), I would make it known to them that you are doing them a favour by doing so. Something along the lines of..."I'm very sorry, but this really isn't working out for me so I've decided to leave. I've developed a number of recipes for you (show them the recipe book here), and if you like, I'll leave them for you so your customers can continue to enjoy the same products they've come to love."

I know it may seem petty, but given how clueless the owner seems to be, I think you need to make it clear just how much you've done for the bakery. I doubt they realize the goods they sell are really a product of your work, not just a recipe out of a book.

If the wife really is as vindictive or controlling as she appears, she'll probably decline and that will give you the opportunity to take all your recipes out of there without bad feelings on either side. I suspect if you leave the recipes, they're going to tinker with them, and the quality will go down, but they're going to claim they are using the same recipes. Then they're going to find a way to blame you (to the customers) for the crappy goods.

[raisab]

I think some great suggestions have made up here. Do give them the ultimatum if you haven't quit already. If they truly need you they will bend, and if the husband is bright enough he will grow some balls at this point. If not, do tell them about the recipes. Hopefully her pride will not let her accept them. I would put the old ones back in the book and offer them your tweked ones separately. But YOU are the one who needs to do something and now.

Edited October 14, 2006 by raisab (log)

[pjm333]

I started my own wholesale baking business & I rent out a kitchen on a hourly basis. The place I rent from is an existing bakery and the owner/chef is interested in many of my recipes,my question is I am not sure how to handle things with the recipes.I have gave them a couple of recipes but I do want to give any more away. I could sell the recipes to them if they like them or i was thinking that they could include some extra space for me for storage. 

  Basically I am looking for suggestions / ideas on how I / you would handle my concern with the recipes ? Thanks in advance !!

[Tri2Cook]

If you don't want to share your recipes, I would just politely explain that to them. You're paying rent, you don't owe them anything beyond that. If you choose to share an occasional recipe, that still doesn't obligate you to share every recipe they request. If you're interested in selling or bartering space for recipes, I'd just discuss that idea with them. It's a business relationship, they shouldn't be offended by you doing things in a business-like manner. They didn't just give you use of the kitchen because you wanted to use it, they worked out something that makes it beneficial to both parties. Nothing wrong with you doing the same.

[gfweb]

Exactly.

[ElsieD]

I'll give you my pointy-headed accountant's viewpoint.  These recipes are your property and as such, they are an asset belonging to your business.  If you were ever to sell your business, your recipes (and goodwill among other assets) are what you would be selling.  If you have given these recipes away or sold them to another person(s) the value of your business has been diminished.   I would explain it to them that way.  They should be understanding of this because I would be surprised if they gave their recipes away for those same reasons.

[pastrygirl]

I agree, better to discourage that.  If it is something you're selling in your business, why would you give a direct competitor your recipes? 

 

Right now I make mostly chocolates and dessert minis.  If a chef I knew and liked needed a recipe for ice cream or focaccia or something peripheral to the business, I'd share.  If my competitors want to copy me, or if I want to copy my competitors, I think it's up to us to figure it out.

 

Would it be an option to sell to those items to them or trade product as part of your rent? 

Edited March 26, 2017 by pastrygirl
more (log)

[Alex]

People here are being very nice and offering appropriate suggestions -- which probably is a good thing, as I suspect you don't want to lose that space. Me, I'd offer a deal to the owner -- my recipes for your debit card and PIN. S/he'd get the message, I hope.

[JohnT]

Next time they hint at wanting a recipe, make a joke of it - say: "You want another prized, secret recipe? No problem, but I will then have to kill you!" Then just ignor them and carry on doing what you are doing. They should soon get the message. If they persist, just repeat the line and then tell them that you would prefer not to have to permanently iliminate them from society.

 

The above is humour — but it works! Do not give your recipes away unless it is to somebody the other side of the world who you know will not open up in opposition to you in your neighbourhood. You and your recipes are your business and livelihood. You may as well just give your bank account to them!

[Kerry Beal]

When I was in university I took a lot of psychology courses - and I recall learning that if you do something for someone once that YOU are forever in their debt. Backwards to what you would think that if you do something for someone that THEY are in your debt. I have observed the world since and discovered it to be true.

 

So what does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Since you have given them recipes once - it now makes it much more awkward to say no going forward. 

 

But I agree with all the posters above - your recipes are an asset to your business and you need to retain them. 

 

So some combination of the businesslike and humorous "NO, but thanks for asking" needs to be your stance going forward IMHO. 

 

If you want extra storage space - buy it with money!

[Tri2Cook]

My personal policy with my recipes is I don't mind sharing as long as it's not with direct, local competition. And even then, I'm not always as strict with it as I probably should be. Or rather, that was my policy. Since I no longer do catering and most of the recipes we use at work are not mine it's not currently an issue. If I manage to get the chocolates thing off the ground well enough to actually call it a business at some point, I'll have to give it more thought. Right now, there is no local direct competition in that area but I wouldn't want to contribute too heavily to competition being created.

[pjm333]

Thanks everyone for your ideas & input. It is greatly appreciated !!