11 Madison Hot Dog Cart

[lullyloo]

When I read Chicago style dog, I assumed the 2.50 included tomato, onion, pickle relish, and a cucumber spear with celery seed sprinkled on top. That's a Chicago style dog and worth the extra buck, IMO. Did those condiments not come with it, Billy D?

[cabrales]

Is it possible some purchasers of hot dogs might be deriving satisfaction (not necessarily representing the price difference) from the Danny Meyer and Eleven Madison name? I'd have to say that, while I wouldn't attribute value to the name per se, at the regular sidewalk vendor (non-Papaya, obviously), I would be worried about proper maintenance of sanitary standards, etc. At least with the EM cart, one could have some assurance that the food is carefully kept and prepared.

[jordyn]

Can any hot dog cooked in any kind of water really be better than a Gray's dog? How can you get it all crispy and a teeny bit charred if it's cooked in aromatic water?

[cabrales]

Here is TimeOut's description of the trimmings for the EM hot dog: "check out the fixings: fresh tomatoes, onions, green peppers, lettuce, relish, cucumbers and pickled chili peppers in addition to the requisite ketchup and mustard." (Not connotations with respect to Papaya)

http://www.timeoutny.com/features/347/347....iticspick3.html

[tommy]

How can you get it all crispy and a teeny bit charred if it's cooked in aromatic water?

you don't. i don't know if we want to get into the discussion of if it's "better" charred or not. ho hum.

[Billy D]

If I remember correctly I paid $2.50 for a hot dog with mustard; they may have offered the other condiments but no cucumber spear with celery seed sprinkled on top.

[cabrales]

I'm not too familiar with Papaya hot dogs (or hot dogs in general). However, can they be so "bursting" that they split lengthwise along a seam?

[tommy]

If I remember correctly I paid $2.50 for a hot dog with mustard; they may have offered the other condiments but no cucumber spear with celery seed sprinkled on top.

did you get a receipt for the taxman? you clearly got ripped off if you didn't.

[foodgeek]

I went yesterday. I've never had a chicago hotdog b4, so don't have anything to compare it to. It was interesting. It had chopped tomatoes, a couple of relishes, hot peppers, celery salt, etc... The garlic in the water does add a little flavor.

Their lemonade is really sweet, even for me, and I like things sweet.

[tommy]

was it a rip-off jayask?

[Billy D]

Tommy, how do you define a rip off?

I have explained that I look at value not price; what's your criterion?

[Wilfrid]

If Gray's made a hot dog that way and offered it with those kinds of garnishes, they'd charge more than 75 cents. How much, I don't know. Maybe $1.25, or $1.50. Danny Meyer is charging a dollar on top of that, and he's giving it to charity. Are we really worried about questions of value on the scale of $1?

[Holly Moore]

Apparently, the Chicago-style franks are of the Usinger's brand, and prepared in a broth flavored with garlic, coriander seeds, onions and bay leaves.

Usinger's hot dogs must be grilled. Boiling/seeping them is the eighth deadly sin. Might as well boil an aged ribeye. Beyond that, there is so much spice/flavor in an Usinger's dog that adding herbs and such to the cooking water is a joke.

This is an example of a restaurant owner feeling he has to embellish upon perfection for reasons of PR and ego.

Still, it is evidently for a good cause.

[tommy]

This is an example of a restaurant owner feeling he has to embellish upon perfection for reasons of PR and ego.

i don't think danny needs any additional PR, and he's never really come across as egotistical. in my eyes at least. no one even knows about this cart for cryin out loud.

[Holly Moore]

The other option is that he doesn't understand the product. But my guess is that:

1. Danny Meyer heard Usingers made the best hot dog, which they do, so he is using them.

2. He is steaming / seeping them either because it is the NY Cart way of doing hot dogs or because actual Chicago hot dogs are boiled (they don't use Usingers in Chicago).

3. He is seasoning the water (totally unnecessary for a Usingers hot dog as their dogs have so much flavor in themselves and are already packed with garlic) because he needed to make the plain old hot dog a "Union Square Dog." He wanted to both create some PR points of difference and he hoped such slight-of-hand would meet customer expectations that a Union Square Dog will be "gourmet" - better than the others.

My reaction to Danny Meyer's approach to a hot dog is the same as when some Philadelphia chef makes a cheese steak with prime rib eye and two year aged cheeze wiz, or a place in Maine uses remoulade sauce instead of mayonnaise on a lobster roller. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So, you ask, how would I have approached putting out a top quality dog from a cart in New York. I'd use Usinger's dog, but grill it. Judging by Nathans, Papaya King and Gray's that isn't a novel concept for NY and carts can be set up with grills. I'd fly in New England style hot dog buns. And I'd upscale the condiments - make my own mustard, relish and such.

My goal would be a great, if not the best, New York style hot dog, not an over-embellished Chicago Dog.

[tommy]

I'd use Usinger's dog, but grill it.  Judging by Nathans, Papaya King and Gray's that isn't a novel concept for NY and carts can be set up with grills.  I'd fly in New England style hot dog buns.  And I'd upscale the condiments - make my own mustard, relish and such.

My goal would be a great, if not the best, New York style hot dog, not an over-embellished Chicago Dog.

but the dirty water dog stand has more of a romance attached to it.

make sure you let us know when to you come to NY to open your own stand though. i'm sure it will be great!

[Holly Moore]

Nah, not New York.

But if you're driving through Philadelphia next spring.....

[C Squared]

I find this thread very interesting.

A few months ago, a hot dog was someting I grabbed on the boardwalk.

The began my search for Jimmy John's ( see my thread "The quest for the BEST")

My Google search led me to Holly Moore's Hot Dog page. Since then I have been doing some research. I know about Usinger's, but have never tasted then. I have had Sabrett's and liked them.

I am about to retire and need to do something for extra income. I am considering buying a cart (I have found a supplier in Miami) and I am very interested in the discussion of brands and cooking methods.

If anyone has tasted both, is Usinger's (have to get them from Milwalkee.) better than Sabrett (available locally)

Would the added expense of adding a grill to the cart pay off?

[cabrales]

C Squared -- Presumably, the intended geographic location of your hot dog cart (city, area within the applicable city) might be informative of the types of things you might want to offer.

[C Squared]

I live in Bensalem PA just outide Philly. I am curently checking local orniances to see if I can locate in and industrial park or office complex.

We do have some big ones. I also have contacted local malls with the idea of placing an electric indoor cart.

Another consideration is moving to the Jersey Shore.

Offering from a cart is limited, I plan Hot Dog, Chili dog (I make a pretty mean chili) and slaw dog, but according to the cart manufacurer some Boards of Health won't allow chili or slaw from a cart.

Beverage must be canned, Birch Beer, Cola and Mountain dew.

[foodgeek]

was it a rip-off jayask? 

Nah. :) $2 aint bad with all thsoe toppings...and its obvious that some care and planning has went into the stand. It was nice to try something different, and I may actually drop by there tomorrow for lunch since a friend wants to try it.

[John]

To C Squared,

to answer your questions; yes, Usinger's is better than Sabrett. And I believe that it would be worth your while to invest in a grill. Sabrett is a good dog; in fact only Usinger's and Dietz and Watson New York style all beef (plus the Black Bear frank they make exclusively for Shop Rite) are better, in my opinion. To see the difference between boiled and grilled, have a dirty water dog from any cart with a Sabrett umbrella. Then have a dog from Papaya King. Both are Sabrett; and come 10 to the lb, so they are the same size. But the Papaya King has more flavor and is crunchier from being cooked on a griddle or grill. A lot of people hate the dirty water dog, but love the grilled one even though the same exact dog is being used.

I've compared Usinger's to Sabrett, Dietz and Watson, Grote & Weigel, and Best's. Cooked on my griddle at the same time and tasted side by side blindfolded. Usinger's is clearly better. More flavorfull without being too spicy; a better balance of seasoning than the others. Dietz and Watson is a solid second followed by Sabrett. Grote & Weigle and Best's are close to Sabrett's in flavor and quality. By the way, I've just seen Usinger Angus Franks and beef/pork griddle franks at Foodtown. I believe this chain is only in N.J. The only place I know of in the tri state area that carries this brand.

[cabrales]

C Squared and John -- Do you have a sense that some Usinger's items are in the price range of the other brands mentioned? I assume that profit maximization might be among the goals of C Squared's potential hot dog cart. Some hot dog carts in NY offer two types of sausages -- I wonder what the economic motivation behind that might be.

What brand of buns, mustard (what type?) and ketchup do members think hot dog carts utilize? And what type of relish? Would it be unusual for hot dog carts to offer whole or sliced pickles?

[C Squared]

The price of the dogs is not the only economic factor in choosing a brand.

A supplier for Sabrett tells me a shipper (refrigerated) will charge up to $400 to ship 100lbs of hot dogs. That's $4.00 a pound before you even pay for the hot dogs.

I am close enough to East Rutherford to get Sabretts on my own, but Usingers come from Milwaukee!!

Buns- I'm working on this. I find most hot dog buns to small to pile on a good load of chili and slaw. Jimmy Johns in West Chester uses a bun that is a cross between a hot dog bun and a kaiser roll. (see Holly Moore's Hot Dog page for a pic) I'm still looking for the right bun.

The chili will be mine, spicier than most hot dog chili, but not too much heat.

Ketchup=Heinz

Mustard - The jury is still out on yellow vs. brown.

Serving bins,especially cold are limited on a cart, so a great variety of condiments woud be difficult.

BTW Thanks for the feedback guys.

[foodgeek]

I remember hearing a while back about a butcher shop in College Point (Queens) that makes gr8 hotdogs. Anyone know which I'm talking about? It may be worth investigating.