Help w/ Cake & Frosting Mix Experiment

[Kim Shook]

I am trying out a new (to me) cake & frosting mix. It is called Mam Papaul's and was pretty expensive. The company is a Louisiana company. I wanted to see if it was truly any better than other cake mixes. I am planning on making this tomorrow. When I read the directions tonight, I noticed that it called for 1 c. milk, 1 1/2 sticks margarine and 1/2 c. shortening. I'd really rather not. The directions call for cooking the milk and frosting mix, cooling it and then adding the margarine and shortening and whipping for 10 minutes. Do you think that I can just use all butter. I don't own any margarine and the idea of putting shortening in a frosting just skeeves me out.

[Luckylies]

I am trying out a new (to me) cake & frosting mix.  It is called Mam Papaul's and was pretty expensive.  The company is a Louisiana company.  I wanted to see if it was truly any better than other cake mixes.  I am planning on making this tomorrow.  When I read the directions tonight, I noticed that it called for 1 c. milk, 1 1/2 sticks margarine and 1/2 c. shortening.  I'd really rather not.  The directions call for cooking the milk and frosting mix, cooling it and then adding the margarine and shortening and whipping for 10 minutes.  Do you think that I can just use all butter.  I don't own any margarine and the idea of putting shortening in a frosting just skeeves me out.

←

I know what you mean about not wanting to use margerine and shortening, but for the fist time I would consider following the instructions and seeing how it turns out...then working from there. Otherwise sub butter for the margerine and keep the shortening.

[SweetSide]

What's in the mix? It sounds like a frosting I make for Red Velvet cake -- cook milk and flour on the stove until thick, cool, then whip that into creamed butter and sugar.

The mix may just be the flour/sugar part, for which you are probably paying too much...

[Kim Shook]

What's in the mix?  It sounds like a frosting I make for Red Velvet cake -- cook milk and flour on the stove until thick, cool, then whip that into creamed butter and sugar. 

The mix may just be the flour/sugar part, for which you are probably paying too much...

←

they don't tell you what is in just the frosting, but the ingredient list for the cake and frosting: sugar, enriched wheat flour bleached, cocoa processed w/ alkali, partially hydrogenated vegetable shortening, with bht and citric acid, dry egg whites, leavening, dry egg yolk, food starch-modified, propylene glycol, mono and diesters, dextrose, mono and diglycerides, natural and aftificial flavor, salt, nonfat milk solids, sorbitan monostearate, caramel color, soy lecithin, cellulose gum, polysorbate 60, xanthan gum, propylene glycol, corn syrup, glycerine, polysorbate 80.

[SweetSide]

What's in the mix?  It sounds like a frosting I make for Red Velvet cake -- cook milk and flour on the stove until thick, cool, then whip that into creamed butter and sugar. 

The mix may just be the flour/sugar part, for which you are probably paying too much...

←

they don't tell you what is in just the frosting, but the ingredient list for the cake and frosting: sugar, enriched wheat flour bleached, cocoa processed w/ alkali, partially hydrogenated vegetable shortening, with bht and citric acid, dry egg whites, leavening, dry egg yolk, food starch-modified, propylene glycol, mono and diesters, dextrose, mono and diglycerides, natural and aftificial flavor, salt, nonfat milk solids, sorbitan monostearate, caramel color, soy lecithin, cellulose gum, polysorbate 60, xanthan gum, propylene glycol, corn syrup, glycerine, polysorbate 80.

←

Ewww. If you don't want to add shortening, too late, it's already in the mix... Frostings are so easy to make, I'd stay away from that stuff, but that's my chemical prejudice talking.

IMO, I'd scrap the mix frosting totally and just frost with a cooked milk frosting, or any other frosting you like. Then again, I only bake from scratch and wouldn't be buying that mix to begin with.

[K8memphis]

I like the quote from someone who said something like, 'If you want to cook from scratch you have to create the universe.' And it takes more than a can of shortening to give me the heebie jeebies.

Generally speaking, there's longer shelf life and better holding properties in the mixes. 'From scratch' is cool but you don't have some of the cake qualities some of us have grown accustomed to, like softness in a white cake that doesn't stale rapidly on impact with air. For example, a wedding cake slice that is cut at 7:30 pm and picked up from the cake table by the father of the bride at 9:30 after the festivities. You really don't want the guy that wrote yah the big check to get a dried out piece of cake. Mixes ensure the cake will be user friendly even though handled a bit improperly.

It all depends on what you want/need. There's room in the world and there's a good use for those chemicals. The flour, sugar, baking powder, baking soda (talk about chemicals) and the other 'scratch' ingredients sit on the same shelf as the mixes.

Here's what's in Swans' Down Cake Flour

enriched cake flour (bleached wheat flour)

niacin

reduced iron

thiamin

mononitrate

riboflavin

folic acid

Heres' what's in Gold Medal all purpose flour

wheat flour

malted barley flour

niacin (a b vitamin)

iron

thiamin

mononitrate (vitamin B)

riboflavin (vitamin B)

folic acid (A B vitamin)

Here's what's in baking powder

baking soda

cornstarch

sodium

aluminum sulfate

calcium sulfate

mono-calcium sulfate

Now White Lily makes a more pure flour but I don't care for it in cake. And sure those are vitamins--but those are additives--it's not naturally occuring in the flour. What kind of vitamins are those? Organic, chemical or Flintstone? How pure are those. Why is the barley flour malted. What is in the malt. Who cares. Can we trust the guys who pour the stuff into the huge hoppers at the flour factories?? Some of that stuff is a chemical. Chemical free, additive free cake doesn't exist and/or would not be purchased or eaten by most of us.

There are chemicals on the packaging. (or at least there used to be--Patrick will correct me if I'm wrong

I don't know if sugar is considered a chemical or not but it is a highly refined commodity to become what it is. But it is hugely consciously damaging to many parts of our body. Teeth, pancreas, skin, brain, vision etc.

Methinks that what we do know and blindly accept as 'normal' or 'scratch-worthy' is at least as damaging as a coupla few extra chemicals that are at least as beneficial.

Let him who has not used frozen phyllo dough (sinned) cast (throw) the first donut hole (stone).

[SweetSide]

Ah, but remember in my comments, I'm only talking about the FROSTING part.

Many of the chemicals in a CAKE mix do indeed help the keeping quality of the cake (but I still like scratch) and can see using CAKE mixes, especially since they are designed to be much less finicky about mixing and the like.

But, FROSTING doesn't usually have keeping issues (other than if you plan on leaving it out in the hot sun for a wedding), and I see no need for so much hydrogenated oil in the frosting. And I see no need for mixes for frosting, especially since the cooked milk and American buttercreams (with butter -- 'nuther thread there) are so easily made.

Personal opinion.

[K8memphis]

Shortening plays a huge role in icings. It helps it hold up better to humidity. It helps soften dry fondant. It is a great ingredient when you need it. Butter tastes better. But try making snickerdoodles* or my molasses crinkles* with butter it's just not the same.

I totally love Jiffy chocolate icing mix. I love it on spice cake. Probably an acquired taste. But I used to make it all the time as a kid. Haven't had it in years. Great stuff.

I love Hostess cupcakes. Love them.

When I started in cake-dom, I used to used Jiffy white icing mix, add shortening & water and whip the he77 out of it. It was so-o creamy and smooth.

Newbies like mixes. Mixes are our friend. Hmm, if I can do this well, maybe I can go on to that.

It's all good.

Well, mostly all good. Somewhere in Arkansas, or near Memphis, maybe Jonesborough, like 15, 16 years ago or something, a cake decorator got tossed in jail for making icing with Exlax--kid you not--the people got sick and she got prosecuted for it.

Ooops.

So I ain't scared of shortening, I usually don't use icing mixes, I just wish I would have kept that newspaper clipping!

*out of the old red Betty Crocker book

[zoe b]

I grew up in a house of cake mixes and Crisco--and immediately spurned all of this when I learned about good food.

Fast forward--I do love good food still--pure and fresh and elemental--BUT you can't beat some of the cake mix and convenience food desserts--I was just at a southern funeral gathering --fried chicken!!!

But I also tasted pretzel salad--omigawd--it is so delicious--my friend told me it's ground pretzels, strawberry jello, strawberries and something horrifically creamy and colorific--it was heavenly--washed down with sweet tea--I want the recipe!!!

And recently i was whipping up 2 batches of chocolate chip cookies and 1/2 way though realized I was short on butter--and margerine--used 1/2 butter flavored Crisco I had in the back of the pantry--those cookies are the best chocolate chip cookies ever--I would bet you could win a prize at the State Fair for them.

[Kim Shook]

But I also tasted pretzel salad--omigawd--it is so delicious--my friend told me it's ground pretzels, strawberry jello, strawberries and something horrifically creamy and colorific--it was heavenly--washed down with sweet tea--I want the recipe!!!

←

Here you go: Strawberry Pretzel Salad.

Ok, I finished the cake. Here's the odd thing. Almost NO flavor in this thing. I chose the Black Velvet cake. It is as dark as an Oreo cooky. I made the cake as instructed and I went ahead and used the shortening and butter (I didn't have any margarine) in the frosting. The texture of everything is very good. But I just tasted a scrap of cake (from trimming) with a good blob of frosting and it was just blah. I didn't expect this thing to be as good as scratch, but I certainly expected it to be at least as good as Duncan Hines or Betty Crocker and it was not!

But not to waste anything, I decided that I could practice my frosting skills and it is really beautiful. I used my new cake icer tip to put a zig zag edge on the cake and used a big fat star tip to put stars all around the bottom and all over the top. So I'm gonna call it my Paris cake - pretty, but tasteless !

[K8memphis]

How 'bout this 'cake'.

[Squirrelly Cakes]

K8memphis stated: "Newbies like mixes. Mixes are our friend. Hmm, if I can do this well, maybe I can go on to that."

That is true to a degree in that once success is achieved with a mix, folks may go on to "from-scratch" baking because success builds confidence, but it also may create some false expectations.

For example, the cake mix user likely does not have experience with creaming sugar and fat. Doesn't understand that once liquid is added to flour, gluten begins to develop and overbeating can make for a tough, dry cake. Doesn't understand that there is a time limit to when the leaveners in the recipe begin to work and will continue to work when exposed to the heat of the oven. Doesn't understand that baking is chemistry and a combination of ingredients in certain amounts usually produce success. Doesn't understand that the texture they get from mixes is not going to be the same as from-scratch. Doesn't understand that from-scratch baking is not as forgiving. Doesn't understand why they cannot "doctor" a recipe by adding another ingredient or several ingredients that are not called for as it throws the whole chemistry of the recipe out of whack. Doesn't understand that you cannot dump the egg whites and all into the bowl and expect the same results had you followed the instructions for whipping the egg whites until stiff and gently folded them into the batter.

So really a cake mix maker has experience in putting all of the ingredients into a bowl and mixing them for the instructed time, knows how to prepare a pan for a mix, knows how to judge when a cake is done, knows how to remove the cake from the pan and how to level it, hopefully not by destroying the texture by using a smooshing method. But doesn't yet understand the chemistry of baking, the methods employed with various types of cakes, the ratios required, various pan preparations for different kinds of cakes and so on.

So the learning curve begins again.

Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

[zoe b]

thanks for the pretzel salad recipe, Kim--I can't wait to make this even though the Hub thinks it sounds disgusting--just wait til he sees it and starts begging for some!!!

and as for tasteless chocolate cake--i think that's the central problem in making a standard 2 layer cake--I've never been able to get a really chocolatey one--have to go to a flourless or molten chocolate cake to get the rich chocolateyness.

Z

[K8memphis]

Kim and Zoe, Try this formula for a wonderful chocolate cake. I posted it just for y'all. It's very flavorful and an easy cake to make too.

You can half it too for a 9x13.

I was trying to make a chocolate cake with cayenne and I didn't have all the ingredients for any one recipe so I plunged in & used what I had. Kinda combined several recipes into my creation.

[Kim Shook]

Kim and Zoe, Try this formula for a wonderful chocolate cake. I posted it just for y'all. It's very flavorful and an easy cake to make too.

You can half it too for a 9x13.

I was trying to make a chocolate cake with cayenne and I didn't have all the ingredients for any one recipe so I plunged in & used what I had. Kinda combined several recipes into my creation.

←

Wow - I will be making this one soon! Thank you so much for posting that. One question, though. When you say that it will make 4 eight inch layers, do you mean to fill 4 8" pans with batter or to make 2 8" pans and split them? Thanks again!!!

[K8memphis]

When you say that it will make 4 eight inch layers, do you mean to fill 4 8" pans with batter or to make 2 8" pans and split them?  Thanks again!!!

←

I think you can bake off 3 or 4 eight inch cakes from this amount of batter.

You're welcome