Eating Chicago Pizza and Dogs

[ronnie_suburban]

The last stop on our quest was U Lucky Dawg, which was formerly known as Fluky's, another well known Chicago Dog place.

I read a blurb in one of the recent Chicago Time Out magazine that said that U Lucky Dawg is the same place the same owners etc etc. They dropped the Fluky's name because they were not happy with some of the other franchisees and wanted to distance themselves. Some of the other stores were using dogs made in WISCONSIN! I mean really....

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I think this is correct. Here is a link to a press release with the "full" story.

=R=

[pounce]

Page 8 of the July 6-13 issue of Time Out Chicago has a column titled "What's up with that?" with the question "There used to be a Fluky's hot-dog stand at 6821 Noth Western Avenue, but now the sign reads U Lucky Dog. Did Fluky's go under or something?". There is a long answer, but I don't know if I can repost so here is bit...

.... Instead the stores are using  their own recipe and having their dogs made by Klement's Sausage. "Which isn't even from Chicago--Klement's is from Milwaukee, " Estes says disdainfully. Estes --who also owns Max's Italian Beef about a mile south on Western-- says he did relish giving up the renowned Fluky's name, but says "I didn't want to be associated with the name, because the other Fluky's stores just weren't serving good products."...

Edited July 15, 2006 by pounce (log)

[ChefCAG]

God D*** I miss those dogs

[ulterior epicure]

When I lived in Evanston, I used to go up to Mustard's Last Stand on Central, right next to Northwestern's stadium for hot dogs... used to bike over there - even when it was too cold to be biking...

Has anyone been recently? Is that place still around?

Edited July 15, 2006 by ulterior epicure (log)

[LAZ]

Superdawg does not have it's own proprietary recipe.

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My source was Maurie Berman. According to him, the dogs are made for Superdawg according to their own recipe, which they keep locked in a vault. As Ronnie said, they are all-beef but not kosher. I spoke to the Bermans about this in person on July 10, 2006.

One thing the Bermans corrected me about. Maurie and Flaurie are still very active in the daily operations of Superdawg. Their two sons (both practicing lawyers) and daughter and son-in-law participate, too, but it's clear that the elder Bermans are still very much in charge.

Fluky's on Western was not a franchise but a licensee. The Esteses, who have owned the restaurant for eight years, dropped the license. Everything about U Lucky Dawg remains pretty much the same as it was under the Fluky's name, other than some new artwork and a couple of new menu items, such as a Vienna dog with nacho cheese and chopped fresh habanero peppers.

Currently, the only free-standing Fluky's is the newly opened Buffalo Grove store, although they are in the process of taking over City Dogs in Wal-Mart stores, starting with the one in Niles. I have eaten at the BG Fluky's and I recommend that if you are looking for a hot dog in that area, visit Wiener Take All across the street. Fluky's does serve decent fried chicken, made according to the process that would be called Broasted if they were using genuine Broaster cookers, but since the signs say something like "pressure fried," I guess they aren't.

Edited July 15, 2006 by LAZ (log)

[gmi3804]

When I lived in Evanston, I used to go up to Mustard's Last Stand on Central, right next to Northwestern's stadium for hot dogs... used to bike over there - even when it was too cold to be biking...

Has anyone been recently?  Is that place still around?

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Yup - still there!

[John]

Laz,

Superdawg does not have it's own proprietary recipe. They use a Sinai 48 dog that is available from Best Kosher of Chicago.

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John, I know you are a maven in this area but this is not accurate. If you check out the FAQ on their web site, you can get the full story. This issue is also addressed on the often-aired Hot Dog Show on PBS. It's a proprietary recipe made exclusively for Superdawg and while it is all-beef, it is not Kosher.

=R=

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Ronnie,

I checked out Superdawg's website. In the history section it is mentioned that Maurie and Flaurie formulated their own recipe when they opened in 1948. That is their claim which I will address. I have a copy of the Hot Dog Show which I just finished watching. The segment on Superdawg does not address this issue. I have read elsewhere and heard from people in Chicago that Superdawg uses Sinai 48 franks. I believe this to be true. A guy that I correspond with who is from Chicago and owns a hot dog stand, told me that Superdawg uses this frank. This man has a successful business and knows many people in the industry. He also teaches a course on opening your own hot dog business. There was an article on a website that I can't open which I found on google (acweb.colum.edu/users/agunkel/homepage/food/superdawg.htm) where the author is quoted as saying about Superdawg, "The whole concoction is heaped on 2 classic bases: the Sinai 48 Kosher dog......" and then the quote ends.

After I read your post, I e-mailed my friend who confirmed that Superdawg uses Sinai 48. He also told me a lot of things about Superdawg. Unfortunately I don't have his permission to post the e-mail. Or to give his opinion or review of Superdawg. But I can say that the original owners, Maurie and Flaurie retired a few years ago. Their son now runs the operation. I can also say that prior to 1955 Superdawg served Vienna Beef. They did not formulate their own recipe. They have been serving Sinai 48 for quite awhile. I will try to find further proof. I have read that they use this frank in a couple of places which I will try to locate.

I have a lot of experience with hot dog owners claiming that either they make their own franks, or have them made specially for them. This is untrue the great majority of the time. I have documented this on Egullet in the past. Papaya King, Gray's, and Katz's use the same recipe Sabrett dog, even though they claim they have their own special recipe. Katz's sometimes claims that they make their own dogs. Papaya King says they have their own recipe from Marathon (owners of Sabrett) which adds a secret spice. This was refuted by a couple of Sabrett distributors, a guy whose father delivered these Sabrett franks to every place in the city that used them, and the person in charge of private label at Marathon who I spoke with personally, and who thought that I was going to open my own place.

Just a few weeks ago I went to a place that claimed they make their own dogs. I asked where the sausage making equipment was, because there was none on the premises. The owner then said that they were made by family members at a pork store. I sampled the dog and thought that it tasted remarkably similar to a dog made in Syracuse. I thought that it was more than a coincidence when I saw an article at the restaurant stating that the owner's family was from Syracuse. The next week I called the company and found out that they supplied this particular hot dog establishment.

Many people want you to think that their dog is special and that you can only get it there. That is why they claim to make it themselves or have it made to a "special recipe". In a few instances, this is true. And I can give you examples. But the great majority of the time it is false. I can give you many examples of this also. Owners have told me where they get their dogs, and then I hear them telling customers that they make it themselves. I guess it's the nature of the business.

[ronnie_suburban]

Laz,

Superdawg does not have it's own proprietary recipe. They use a Sinai 48 dog that is available from Best Kosher of Chicago.

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John, I know you are a maven in this area but this is not accurate. If you check out the FAQ on their web site, you can get the full story. This issue is also addressed on the often-aired Hot Dog Show on PBS. It's a proprietary recipe made exclusively for Superdawg and while it is all-beef, it is not Kosher.

=R=

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Ronnie,

I checked out Superdawg's website. In the history section it is mentioned that Maurie and Flaurie formulated their own recipe when they opened in 1948. That is their claim which I will address. I have a copy of the Hot Dog Show which I just finished watching. The segment on Superdawg does not address this issue. I have read elsewhere and heard from people in Chicago that Superdawg uses Sinai 48 franks. I believe this to be true. A guy that I correspond with who is from Chicago and owns a hot dog stand, told me that Superdawg uses this frank. This man has a successful business and knows many people in the industry. He also teaches a course on opening your own hot dog business. There was an article on a website that I can't open which I found on google (acweb.colum.edu/users/agunkel/homepage/food/superdawg.htm) where the author is quoted as saying about Superdawg, "The whole concoction is heaped on 2 classic bases: the Sinai 48 Kosher dog......" and then the quote ends.

After I read your post, I e-mailed my friend who confirmed that Superdawg uses Sinai 48. He also told me a lot of things about Superdawg. Unfortunately I don't have his permission to post the e-mail. Or to give his opinion or review of Superdawg. But I can say that the original owners, Maurie and Flaurie retired a few years ago. Their son now runs the operation. I can also say that prior to 1955 Superdawg served Vienna Beef. They did not formulate their own recipe. They have been serving Sinai 48 for quite awhile. I will try to find further proof. I have read that they use this frank in a couple of places which I will try to locate.

I have a lot of experience with hot dog owners claiming that either they make their own franks, or have them made specially for them. This is untrue the great majority of the time. I have documented this on Egullet in the past. Papaya King, Gray's, and Katz's use the same recipe Sabrett dog, even though they claim they have their own special recipe. Katz's sometimes claims that they make their own dogs. Papaya King says they have their own recipe from Marathon (owners of Sabrett) which adds a secret spice. This was refuted by a couple of Sabrett distributors, a guy whose father delivered these Sabrett franks to every place in the city that used them, and the person in charge of private label at Marathon who I spoke with personally, and who thought that I was going to open my own place.

Just a few weeks ago I went to a place that claimed they make their own dogs. I asked where the sausage making equipment was, because there was none on the premises. The owner then said that they were made by family members at a pork store. I sampled the dog and thought that it tasted remarkably similar to a dog made in Syracuse. I thought that it was more than a coincidence when I saw an article at the restaurant stating that the owner's family was from Syracuse. The next week I called the company and found out that they supplied this particular hot dog establishment.

Many people want you to think that their dog is special and that you can only get it there. That is why they claim to make it themselves or have it made to a "special recipe". In a few instances, this is true. And I can give you examples. But the great majority of the time it is false. I can give you many examples of this also. Owners have told me where they get their dogs, and then I hear them telling customers that they make it themselves. I guess it's the nature of the business.

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John,

Thank you for the totally enlightening post. I'm have to say that I'm fascinated by the whole notion of 'proprietary' dogs and I'm now determined to find the source of the information I've been "going on" for a long time regarding Superdawg. Once I do, I'll post it here.

That said, it sounds like even if I can find the exact quote, it may not necessarily be true. I used to have a family connection to Sinai 48, but lost it when my father died in '94 (my dad had long ago worked for the man who ran Sinai's outlet factory store on Pershing Avenue) and I'm fairly familiar with their products because I grew up eating them. I'll certainly keep that possible Sinai 48 connection in mind the next time I taste one and see how it feels.

Again, thanks for the additional information.

Edit to add: LAZ...thanks for the additional info, as well. I was beginning to think I'd remembered what I heard incorrectly. Still, I'm going to try to find the original source of my info about this issue.

=R=

Edited July 16, 2006 by ronnie_suburban (log)

[John]

I received some more information from my friend. As some may know, Vienna Beef owns and produces David Berg, another popular Chicago hot dog. The difference between the 2 is the spicing profile. DB's are much more spicy than VB's. Best Kosher has a meat plant in Chicago where they produce their hot dogs. Among their brands are Best Kosher, Sinai 48, and Shofar. Shofar, incidentally, was made in Linden, N.J. for years. It is probable that the same meat is used for all 3 brands, but again, the spicing is different. Shofar is still available in Jersey (at Restaurant Depot and a few carts) and is mild for a beef dog. Best Kosher and Sinai 48 have more flavor and spice.

In Chicago Sinai 48 can be found at kosher meat shops, kosher caterers, kosher restaurants, Jewish school food services, and Superdawg. This dog is also served at Costco for $1.50 with a drink. Sam's Club serves the Best Kosher dog. Both are 1/4 pound. Here in Jersey, Costco serves the 1/4 pound Hebrew National.

Superdawg buys their product from Best Kosher, as does Costco and Sam's Club (in Chicago), which sell way more dogs than Superdawg.

At Marathon (Sabrett), the person in charge of private label told me that it is very labor intensive to produce a special recipe. This is rarely done. It is easier to make the dogs in different sizes, and with different casings, but Marathon has 2 recipes; one for all beef, the other for beef and pork. Anyone using their dogs get one or the other. I also know the plant manager at Best Provisions in Newark, N.J. They make my favorite all beef dog. This company began in 1938. They make quality beef products including hamburgers, roast beef, corned beef, and pastrami. In fact, their roast beef, corned beef, and pastrami are sold at Wegmans under their (Wegmans) label. That's how good they are. Best makes a frank from all beef; a mixture of choice and lean beef with their own spicing. The recipe has been the same since 1938. They make dogs in all different sizes and either skinless or natural casing. But only one recipe is used for all the hot dogs that they produce, including the private label dogs for Pathmark, the ones they made for McCrory's (now out of business), and everyone else that uses their dogs. That hasn't stopped many places from claiming that they "use a special recipe frank" from Best Provisions. It simply isn't true. Again, I think that people do this to create a sort of mystique surrounding their product.

Next time you are in a Costco, sample a Sinai 48 dog from the snack bar. Then have a Superdawg.

If I haven't already bored you to death, let me give you an example of one place that does have a special recipe frank. There is a very popular roadside hot dog stand in Union, N.J. It is the Galloping Hill Inn, a/k/a Peterson's. In business since the 1920's, they serve hot dogs, hamburgers, gyros, chicken, shrimp, sandwiches, etc. Beer also. Their dogs were supplied by Gaiser's, a local German butcher shop. A very good German style beef and pork dog with a casing. When the current owners bought the Galloping Hill Inn in 1988, they kept everything the same. Shortly after, Gaisers was sold. The owners of the Galloping Hill Inn were afraid that the hot dogs would be different. The new owners of Gaisers wanted very much to supply GHI with dogs, so they kept on one of the old employees and promised to make the dogs to the same recipe.

For whatever reason, the dogs did not taste the same. The new owners of the GHI, who had the recipe, went looking for a hot dog producer to make the dogs for them, hoping that they would taste the way they did before Gaisers was sold. Since GHI sold (and still does) a couple of thousand hot dogs daily, several companies, including Sabrett, jumped at the opportunity to make the dogs according to the original recipe. GHI finally settled on Grote & Weigel from Connecticut. Grote & Weigel already provides a number of Jersey hot dog establishments with their Griddle Franks. But they are the common recipe used by the company, while GHI's franks are made to the original Gaiser's recipe.

I happenned to find the Grote & Weigel distributor in Jersey. They will sell you any of the franks that they make including the one for the Galloping Hill Inn. If I were to open my own place, I could have these same dogs supplied to me, but I would probably be encouraged not to reveal that they are the same dog used by the GHI. If you were to go to Galloping Hill and asked the identity of the frank, you would be told a number of things. I tell people I know to do this. And they have been told from the employees to the owner any number of things. Most of the time it's "we serve a beef and pork frank" without giving away the source. Or they say that they get it from a secret source. They even claim to make it themselves on occasion.

[ronnie_suburban]

Fascinating stuff, John; not boring at all. I cannot believe all the intrigue behind this proprietary dog business.

Anyway, in addition to tyring to find that original Superdawg claim, I will take your suggestion. My nearest Costco and Superdawg are close enough to each other that I could hit them both within a half hour of each other. I don't know when I'll do it but it will be soon and when I do, I will report back.

=R=

[pounce]

I have to confess I went to "U Lucky Dawg" yesterday after reading this thread. 2 char dogs and some fries. Good stuff. I do have to wonder if the name change effected their business. The place was not busy at 6:30pm. I did see Larry Estes there for a moment checking out the Cubs game on the TV.

[John]

Fascinating stuff, John; not boring at all.  I cannot believe all the intrigue behind this proprietary dog business.

Anyway, in addition to tyring to find that original Superdawg claim, I will take your suggestion.  My nearest Costco and Superdawg are close enough to each other that I could hit them both within a half hour of each other.  I don't know when I'll do it but it will be soon and when I do, I will report back.

=R=

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I am assuming that the Costco near you boils/steams their dogs as does Superdawg. Even if the brand is the same (which I believe it is) there might be a slight difference in taste. Reasons for this could be the freshness of the dogs, length of cooking or other factors. I know of places in Jersey that use the same dog, but prepare it differently, so there is a big difference in taste. But if the dogs are prepared the same way and are the same brand, they should, for the most part, taste the same. The New York places that griddle cook the Sabrett dog have slight differences. Sometimes one is grilled longer than another. I hear that Papaya King is one of 10% of the accounts with Marathon (Sabrett) that get their dogs refrigerated rather than frozen. This might account for a small difference in taste. But if you are familiar with this brand, you can easily identify it. You might want to take a bite of a dog at Superdawg w/o the condiments or just order one with mustard only to better compare it to the dog at Costco.

Another thing I do is casually look in the garbage bin. My friends think that I'm crazy, but I've found boxes with the hot dog brand identified. When I went to a place in Jersey that I mentioned earlier (which uses Hofmann's from Syracuse) I tried to do this. This particular eatery maintains that the dogs are made by them. All of the garbage is put in sealed black bags and tied, so that you can't tell.

I remember a few years back when I posted about New York hot dogs and some of the hot dog joints claiming to have dogs made just for them. Fat Guy happenned to be walking past a Papaya King or Gray's Papaya and saw them getting a delivery. The boxes were clearly labelled Sabrett. About a year ago Ed Levine of the New York times contacted me. I spoke with him numerous times and gave him information for an article he wrote about this subject. I believe he did an article a few years back where he discovered the source of the famous Katz's Pastrami. I think he spoke with 2 owners on separate occasions. One said that they made the pastrami while the other one laughed and said they bought it from a supplier, but didn't identify who it was. Ed found out that it was Empire National.