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pastry cream filled cake


JeanneCake

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I've always wondered about this so now I'm just going to ask....

if I fill a cake with pastry cream (and chopped fruit), how long would you safely leave this at rm temp? I ask because a lot of my clients love the pastry cream filling option I offer, but I usually encourage them to use a buttercream for a wedding cake because it stands out for so long (figure it takes me 1-2 hrs for decorating - and yes, it's covered with fondant, no flames from the other thread please! - then it's delivered an hour or two before the reception starts, it stays out for another 2 or so hours before it is cut/plated). I'm always careful about pastry cream because of all the milk/yolks, etc and I'm nervous about it being out for 4+ hours the way a wedding cake is.

I don't typically refrigerate a fondant-covered cake, because I don't like how fondant behaves after refrigeration, and the walk-in I share is humid anyway - but if I had to, I could. I just would hate handling the cake afterwards (no matter what brand of fondant I've used, it always gets condensation on it after refrigeration. The condensation makes for fingerprints when you go to assemble the tiers.)

Would it make any difference if I used a mix (the only mix I've seen for pastry cream calls for adding milk and optionally, whipped cream to the powder. I don't think that changes anything, but as I have no experience with pastry cream from a mix....)?

Or should I still encourage clients to go with a buttercream with chopped fresh fruit filling in lieu of a pastry cream filling for wedding cakes?

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I think people tend to underrestimate the amount of time you can leave food out without it spoiling. Of course, it depends on the temperature. But many things don't spoil that fast. You can leave certain things out overnight and eat them the next day. In some countries, butter is left out all the time.

"Yo, I want one of those!"

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I've always heard the safety window was 4 hours, not 2. And that 4 starts from the minute you stop cooking. But regardless, the time you spend assembling, decorating, delivering, and having the cake sit out on display, then having cut slices sit on someone's plate in front of them while they're off mingling or whatever will always add up to more than 4 hours.

Pastry cream just doesn't work for event cakes, unless you serve a smaller (wilton serving) regular cake slice from the one that's been on display and pair that with another pastry that's been held under refridgeration.

Edit:

I think people tend to underrestimate the amount of time you can leave food out without it spoiling. Of course, it depends on the temperature. But many things don't spoil that fast. You can leave certain things out overnight and eat them the next day. In some countries, butter is left out all the time.

Salted butter can safely be left out for a few weeks, depending on the brand and amount of salt used.

Most of us can handle eating food that's been sitting out a while; we have the digestive enzymes to handle it. But for anyone with a poor constitution, (and those same people more often than not have a compromised immune system too) that isn't the case. There's one at every party....

Edited by Sugarella (log)
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In some countries, butter is left out all the time.

And in some countries, eggs are sitting out at room temperature in the store. I remember being so shocked when I saw that.

Another thought.....think of how you make Creme Fraiche. People eat that all the time.

(figure it takes me 1-2 hrs for decorating - and yes, it's covered with fondant, no flames from the other thread please! - then it's delivered an hour or two before the reception starts, it stays out for another 2 or so hours before it is cut/plated)

One of my personal cardinal rules is that I ALWAYS chill down a wedding cake before I deliver it.

Never ever, do I work on it up to the point of delivery, then take it to the reception site. That is just sitting out too long, and I'm not just talking about the stability of pastry cream filling, I'm talking about buttercream softening, etc. I've delivered enough cakes to know that heat is your main enemy. My cakes are finished at least 2 to 4 hours before it has to go, then into refrigeration it goes. Yes, even fondant cakes. I have found that if I use a large (or a couple of large food grade plastic bags) to completely seal off a fondant cake in the walk-in, condensation is a lot less a problem.

Besides, I choose the lesser of evils. I'd rather deliver a chilled cake than a warm or semi-warm one. Chilled cakes are much easier to deliver.....much less disastrous. In comparison, a little condensation on fondant is like nothing to worry about anyway.

Jeanne, why do you deliver your cakes so far in advance? I'm at the site from a half hour to even ten to fifteen minutes before the reception (it all depends on where the ceremony is though). If the ceremony is in the same place as the reception, then I deliver 15 minutes before the ceremony.

Another thing I'm wondering.....why would you assemble fondant tiers on-site? I always build my cakes (fondant or not) so they can be delivered in one piece. (Except of course for the separated tier cakes). I can only assume it's because you don't have a delivery vehicle that's tall enough?

Back to the original topic of pastry cream however, it's completely do-able provided you're not dealing with blazing hot heat and an outdoor wedding. Then I'd tell my client...."no, too risky".

But if it's indoors, there's A/C, and you deliver close to reception time, and you deliver your cake chilled, there's no worries at all.

Oh yeah, if you do fill your cakes with pastry cream, make sure you pipe a buttercream "dam" around the inside edge of each layer, then spread the pastry cream inside your circle. Otherwise, you're in for some slippy slidy problems......I use that trick for lemon curd too.

Cheers. :biggrin:

Edited by chefpeon (log)
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Jeanne, why do you deliver your cakes so far in advance? I'm at the site from a half hour to even ten to fifteen minutes before the reception (it all depends on where the ceremony is though). If the ceremony is in the same place as the reception, then I deliver 15 minutes before the ceremony.

I found it makes the function manager nervous when I arrive 30 mins before the guests are due to show; usually I get there about an hour before so I can do some last minute stuff or I time it to be there same time as the florist. I hate not being there with the florist when it calls for fresh flowers - I have been burned with flower dregs that look pretty awful and it bothers me to no end that some florists just leave the loose leftovers for the cake when the client paid for nice flowers for the cake. Everyone looks at the cake, while only 8? 10? people are looking at a table centerpiece. I just don't get it. But that's another story.

Another thing I'm wondering.....why would you assemble fondant tiers on-site? I always build my cakes (fondant or not) so they can be delivered in one piece. (Except of course for the separated tier cakes). I can only assume it's because you don't have a delivery vehicle that's tall enough?

Just about all of my wedding cakes are three (sometimes four) tiers, stacked, and 3 tiers are what I can safely manage to carry by myself and they are all assembled before they get delivered. Most sites won't let their employees help carry anything in - just last week I wrenched my neck lifting a tiered, square cake that was enormous. I could just barely get it from the truck to a cart before my arm went numb and the chef was good enough to help lift it to the table. So, three stacked tiers is my limit; for taller cakes, I have to put the rest of the tiers on at the site. Plus, driving with 4 tiers stacked (the center of gravity is higher) always makes me nervous - I can see the top tier wobbling when I go over a bump or take a turn!

Back to the original topic of pastry cream however, it's completely do-able provided you're not dealing with blazing hot heat and an outdoor wedding. Then I'd tell my client...."no, too risky".

But if it's indoors, there's A/C, and you deliver close to reception time, and you deliver your cake chilled, there's no worries at all.

The weather this weekend is hazy/hot/humid, which means condensation for sure. It's a 4 tier, square stack - two bottom real and two top styro - the 10" square is the pastry cream cake. I can cover the styro tiers tomorrow, it's whether or not to do the real tiers Sat AM and chill them or do them at 2:30 Sat PM just before I leave at 3:30. The design is minimal - lavender fondant, a few random dots, fresh flowers. I am very seriously considering doing the pastry cream tier as a styro just to be safe; I don't want to take a chance on the pastry cream with the weather (not that I think bad things will happen in the 30 mins it takes to get there, but it's a holiday weekend, traffic can be unpredictable....)

Oh yeah, if you do fill your cakes with pastry cream, make sure you pipe a buttercream "dam" around the inside edge of each layer, then spread the pastry cream inside your circle. Otherwise, you're in for some slippy slidy problems......I use that trick for lemon curd too. 

Yep, I do that!

Cheers. :biggrin:

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