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Ok looking for the right chocolate frosting/icing recipe has been making my head spin. This is to fill and cover a chocolate chiffon cake.

What I have in mind:

- is dark (darker than milk chocolate)

- has a shiny finish

- has a pudding-like consistency but is slightly fluffy

- only the surface will semi-set upon sitting on the cake but inside will stay soft

- will hold swirls but not piping

- is able to stand at room temperature without melting down although it might soften slightly

- tastes very chocolatey and not like milk chocolate

- smooth, not grainy, heavy or dense

Another poster thought a ganache frosting would do the trick but having spent the last few days trawling this site for everything about ganache, I'm not so sure it's the right thing... plus I have no idea which recipe to start with, there are so many. Add butter? Corn syrup/glucose? Whip? Let it sit? And for how long? I've read that slightly whipping/beating the ganache will lighten its colour - so how would you get dark as well as shiny and fluffy all at the same time?

Help please!! (recipes, ideas, tips)

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Ok looking for the right chocolate frosting/icing recipe has been making my head spin.  This is to fill and cover a chocolate chiffon cake.

What I have in mind:

- is dark (darker than milk chocolate)

- has a shiny finish

- has a pudding-like consistency but is slightly fluffy

- only the surface will semi-set upon sitting on the cake but inside will stay soft

- will hold swirls but not piping

- is able to stand at room temperature without melting down although it might soften slightly

- tastes very chocolatey and not like milk chocolate

- smooth, not grainy, heavy or dense

Another poster thought a ganache frosting would do the trick but having spent the last few days trawling this site for everything about ganache, I'm not so sure it's the right thing... plus I have no idea which recipe to start with, there are so many.  Add butter?  Corn syrup/glucose?  Whip?  Let it sit?  And for how long?  I've read that slightly whipping/beating the ganache will lighten its colour - so how would you get dark as well as shiny and fluffy all at the same time?

Help please!!  (recipes, ideas, tips)

With a ganache recipe, you can take a part of it and whip it to make it fluffier for your middle filling, and then leave the balance as is, and warm enough to be flowing and pour that over the whole cake to give you that shiny surface. Ganache would follow many of the criteria you liste above. It will be dark as long as you use dark chocolate, it is shiny when poured as is over the cake. It will hold it's shape for swirls and piping when whipped a bit. I think it's much better when the cake has a chance to sit at room temperature so that the ganache can soften up a bit, and yes as long as it's not a scorcher, it'll hold. And a good gananche will not be grainy, it will be smooth and wonderful. As for what recipe to use, there are so many and reading them isn't enough to give you the proper idea of the end result. Pick one that looks good and make it and see how you like it.

Don't waste your time or time will waste you - Muse

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when I think of chocolate frosting (which I thought frosting was a dead word) I think of a shortening-confectioners sugarmix. I nasty, filimy, thick super sweet topping that you get inside your bettycrocker cake boxes.

I sure hope thats not what you are thinking of.

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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when I think of chocolate frosting (which I thought frosting was a dead word) I think of a shortening-confectioners sugarmix.  I nasty, filimy, thick super sweet topping that you get inside your bettycrocker cake boxes.

I sure hope thats not what you are thinking of.

Hmmm thank goodness, no. I hate the commercial Betty Crocker stuff too, and have only ever used it once for my son's playschool mates to frost their cupcakes.

Frosting vs icing: I did read another thread on the semantics of topping a cake... but to me, icing is the thin runny stuff or like royal icing that sets hard. And frosting is spread on. OK but that's just me. I know you all know what I mean.

The chocolate frosting (ok, icing :smile: ) that I have in mind is not TOO sweet, but deliciously chocolatey (but not milk-chocolatey). Its texture is somewhat light and fluffy but not overly so - I mean, it doesn't look whipped or airy, but it is not dense and heavy like the commercial stuff. Definitely not greasy or oily in taste at all.

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when I think of chocolate frosting (which I thought frosting was a dead word) I think of a shortening-confectioners sugarmix.  I nasty, filimy, thick super sweet topping that you get inside your bettycrocker cake boxes.

I sure hope thats not what you are thinking of.

Frosting vs icing: I did read another thread on the semantics of topping a cake... but to me, icing is the thin runny stuff or like royal icing that sets hard. And frosting is spread on. OK but that's just me. I know you all know what I mean.

Frosting is not a dead word -- I and most people I know refer to frosting as the light, fluffy stuff that you put on a cake. Same definition as you for the icing LittleIsland -- royal or run sugar. Icing is the stuff made with icing sugar (powdered sugar).

I'm reading to see if you find your perfect chocolate frosting -- I haven't one either.

Cheryl, The Sweet Side
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What I have in mind:

- is dark (darker than milk chocolate)

- has a shiny finish

- has a pudding-like consistency but is slightly fluffy

- only the surface will semi-set upon sitting on the cake but inside will stay soft

- will hold swirls but not piping

- is able to stand at room temperature without melting down although it might soften slightly

- tastes very chocolatey and not like milk chocolate

- smooth, not grainy, heavy or dense

Ok, ganache fits most of the criteria you are looking for (if you use a slightly whipped ganache, that is). But whipped ganache does not set on the surface like you are describing, and when whipped, is not shiny.

I have a recipe you may want to try:

2 oz softened butter

7 1/2 cups powdered sugar

1 cup cocoa powder (the darker the better)

apprx. 1/2 cup milk (or water)

12 oz cream cheese

In mixer, with whip, combine the softened butter, the powdered sugar and the milk. Whip it around a bit, it will seem kinda crumbly, but that's ok. Then add the cream cheese and whip til fluffy. Then add the cocoa powder, mix on low to combine, scrape down the bowl, and whip till fluffy. This is the point where you may want to add more milk or water (or even cream) to get it to just the right consistency you want.

This recipe fits all the criteria you state above.

I think it's pretty yummy too.

:biggrin:

This REALLY doesn't taste like a cream cheese icing, don't let the cream cheese fool you. The tang of the cream cheese offsets the sweetness of the sugar and enhances the dark chocolate taste you are looking for. Hope this works for you.

Edited by chefpeon (log)
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Ok looking for the right chocolate frosting/icing recipe has been making my head spin.  This is to fill and cover a chocolate chiffon cake.

What I have in mind:

- is dark (darker than milk chocolate)

- has a shiny finish

- has a pudding-like consistency but is slightly fluffy

- only the surface will semi-set upon sitting on the cake but inside will stay soft

- will hold swirls but not piping

- is able to stand at room temperature without melting down although it might soften slightly

- tastes very chocolatey and not like milk chocolate

- smooth, not grainy, heavy or dense

Another poster thought a ganache frosting would do the trick but having spent the last few days trawling this site for everything about ganache, I'm not so sure it's the right thing... plus I have no idea which recipe to start with, there are so many.  Add butter?  Corn syrup/glucose?  Whip?  Let it sit?  And for how long?  I've read that slightly whipping/beating the ganache will lighten its colour - so how would you get dark as well as shiny and fluffy all at the sa me time?

Help please!!  (recipes, ideas, tips)

I have a couple chocolate frosting recipes that I think are the best I have ever made, and I was on a crusade a few years ago, believe me. I haven't made this one for a while so I don't remember if it is shiny or how it measures up to all your criteria. The recipe name says it is a buttercream frosting, but from some buttercreams (that I thought tasted like butter), that I have had, this did not seem like those.

Anyway, it is from a book, Jill Prescott's Ecole De Cuisine, and it is a recipe she said opened the door to French cooking for her. She said that when she "tasted this luxurious frosting, she realized that the only bad thing about her cooking skills were the bad cookbooks, calling for margarine and powdered sugar in their inferior recipes." The classic recipe is made by pouring a 239 degree sugar syrup into raw egg yolks and then heating the mixture until it forms a "thick, voluptuous mass. "Then after the mixture has cooled, unsalted butter is added.

I altered the frosting by adding melted, cooled chocolate.

If you are interested in trying this recipe, I would be happy to type it out if someone will tell me how I keep from copyright problems. At a glance, this buttercream looks a lot like Rose Levy Beranbaum's classic buttercream. I made hers a while back but without varying it to make a chocolate frosting. I added strawberry puree to her buttercream and my daughter thought it tasted like butter. The buttercream from Jill Prescott I am referring to uses 1 1/2 cups butter and adds 2 tsp. vanilla extract. Before adding the butter, I added 1 oz. unsweetened choc. and 4 oz. bittersweet chocolate, melted and cooled. I beat in the chocolate and then the butter. After all the butter was added, I added the extract. She said to beat for 30 to 60 seconds on med-hi until the mixture is shiny and has a creamy, spreadable frosting consistency.

I hope you have good luck finding what you are looking for. It sounds like we have the same determination when searching for just the right recipe, no matter what the dish is.

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LittleIsland, you're from Singapore right? Are you looking for something similar to what is commonly refered to as "fudge topping" in Singapore (sort of along the lines of Lana's chocolate cake and those of the same ilk)? I.E. shiny/glossy but soft and somewhat fudgy and yes, kind of pudding like.

If so, these toppings/frostings usually require the use of "hoen kwe" flour (green bean flour) and is cooked almost like a standard pudding. I may have a recipe floating around in one of my notebooks. Let me know if this is what you are after and if you would like the recipe (and I'll go hunt it down for you).

Edited by Renee K (log)
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LittleIsland, you're from Singapore right? Are you looking for something similar to what is commonly refered to as "fudge topping" in Singapore (sort of along the lines of Lana's chocolate cake and those of the same ilk)? I.E. shiny/glossy but soft and somewhat fudgy and yes, kind of pudding like.

If so, these toppings/frostings usually require the use of "hoen kwe" flour (green bean flour) and is cooked almost like a standard pudding. I may have a recipe floating around in one of my notebooks. Let me know if this is what you are after and if you would like the recipe (and I'll go hunt it down for you).

Hey Renee K, right you are! I haven't been referring to it as fudgey or fudge anything becuase I think it's a bit of a misnomer. And, I don't really like the taste of the hoen kwe (sp?) flour that's used... yes I can taste it in the frosting. I've never used it before but I'm guessing that stuff is what makes it set up like a pudding. And, I'm aiming for something close to Lana's - but a bit moister as I find that frosting tends to dry out rather quickly.

Having said all that, I'm more than game to give it a try if you can dig up the recipe... thanks!

Toni and Chefpeon... this week I will attempt your recipes as well... if only to discover something different :smile: Toni - I believe you should be able to post the recipe if you list all the ingredients verbatim but type out the methodology in your own words.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions so far... keep 'em coming!

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chefpeon,

your recipe sounds awesome~i love anything with cream cheese in it. can you tell me, have you ever iced a cake with it, if so, is it relatively easy to smooth? also, do you used the milk or water, i would think the water would bring out the chocolate flavor more, especially if it was hot, but i could be wrong. thanks! :smile:

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[quote=LittleIsland,Jul 2 2006, 03:20 AM

Toni and Chefpeon... this week I will attempt your recipes as well... if only to discover something different :smile: " Toni - I believe you should be able to post the recipe if you list all the ingredients verbatim but type out the methodology in your own words."

LittleIsland, here is the Buttercream Frosting I was talking about in Jill Prescott's Ecole De Cuisine:

1 cup sugar

1/2 cup water

6 large egg yolks, at room temp.

1-1/2 cups unsalted butter, at room temp.

2 teaspoons vanilla extract

I used 1 oz. unsweetened chocolate and 4 oz. bittersweet chocolate, melted and cooled

l. combine the sugar and water in a sm. saucepan. Place over low heat and stir until the sugar has dissolved. Wash the sides of the pan down with a pastry brush using cold water to remove all the sugar crystals. Cook at medium high until the syrup reaches the softball stage (239 degrees) on a candy thermometer.

2. Using the paddle attachment in a stand mixer, place the egg yolks in the bowl. Turn the mixer on slow speed just to break up the yolks. Add the hot sugar syrup in a thin stream pouring slowly so that the syrup reaches the yolks between the side of the bowl and the paddle until all of the syrup is added.

Once the sugar syrup has been added, increase the speed to medium-high. Beat for 5-6 minutes, until the mixture has cooled and is thick and pale yellow. (The bottom of the bowl will not feel heated.)

3. This is where I added the melted, cooled chocolate. Beat just to mix in.

4. Add the softened butter 1/4 cup at a time, beating after each addition, just until incorporated. After all the butter has been added, add the vanilla extract and beat for 30 to 60 seconds on medium-hi, until the mixture is shiny and has a creamy, spreadable frosting consistency.

You can cover and refrigerate up to 5 days or keep at room temp. if you will be using within 2 hours.

In the regular directions, it says you can vary by using Grand Marnier or Cfhambord in plaace of the vanilla extract. Actually, when adding chocolate, I don't know if someone might say you don't add vanilla. I did, and it was SOOOO good!

I hope you let us know if you try it. :smile::smile:

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I will, Toni, thanks! My 3.5yr old has been off school for the past few days and refuses to allow me to bake...! :hmmm: So have been dreaming about the recipes but not been able to get to the kitchen. Wednesday is my next day off and when he's at school I can try it all out. Will report results.

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LittleIsland, my apologies for the late reply. Took me a while to dig the recipe out from amidst the several humungous (and ever growing) messy piles of unfiled recipe notes lying around my study :hmmm:

Anyway, here is the recipe. I tried it out quite a while back. I kind of modified the usual recipe to get something closer to what I like... replacing the usual water (sometimes milk) with cream and water... using Valrhona chocolate and cocoa instead of just cocoa... and adding a bit of instant jelly for the texture and reducing the hoon kwe powder at the same time.

I have to admit my recollection of the result of that test is rather hazy now. Unfortunately, all I scribbled in the margin was "needs further tweaking" (not much help huh?) without detailing what it was I wanted to tweak again :raz:

Anyway, if I remember correctly, I think I still wasn't 100% happy with the texture and perhaps wanted it even more chocolatey tasting.

So, for what it's worth... here it is...

320g 35% cream

320g water

165g sugar *

2t instant jelly

20g hoon kueh (green bean) powder

20g cocoa powder

100g couverture chocolate (I used Valrhona 70%)

* I like mine very bittersweet, so this can be adjusted to suit personal tastes.

Stir instant jelly, hoon kueh powder and cocoa powder into water, and try to dissolve as much as possible (they won't really dissolve).

Place above mixture, together with the cream and sugar into a saucepan. Cook on medium heat, whisking constantly with balloon whisk, until the mixture starts to come to a boil and thicken. (Note: the mixture does need to come to a boil for the starch to activate.)

Remove from heat, and stir in chocolate. Stir until the chocolate is completely melted and the mixture is smooth.

Oh, I do remember discussing with a friend that perhaps it might be worth the while to try agar agar instead of instant jelly. Apparently, according to rumours :cool: Lana uses some agar agar in her filling.

Anyway, if you get a chance to try it out, hope you'll report back and let me know how it goes.

Good luck!

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Thanks a gazillion Renee, I will definitely be trying this out too! I REALLY appreciate it. I still haven't gotten around to trying all the different frosting recipes. Today I was tweaking the cake recipe AGAIN - it's still coming up a little dry. But everyone else (esp. those at work) is enjoying the efforts I suppose :biggrin:

What do you suppose the hoen kueh flour does? I was guessing it creates that pudding-y texture...?

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In reading this thread and seeing what kind of recipes are offered in regard to what you are looking for, I think mine in particular doesn't quite fill the bill.

You may want to try the others first.....if you try mine at all, you should do that one last.

(As a last resort).  :raz:

Hey I appreciate all input :smile: I will give it a try at some point though, because the cream cheese in it sounds quite interesting and I LOVE cream cheese frosting on carrot cake (although I usually use just a fraction, as in, less than a quarter even, of the sugar called for in regular carrot cake frosting), so this might work really well on a different kind of chocolate cake... if I haven't killed my family by now with the chocolate chiffon... I think they are well and truly sick of seeing it. Thank goodness you don't have to make a cake to test frosting!

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Yep, LittleIsland, the hoon kueh (green bean) flour is for the texture... the rather "unique" texture often found in Nonya & Asian desserts... soft yet firm enough to slice cleanly... pudding-y (new word :laugh: ) and custardy without being gloppy... you know... like in those Nonya kuehs :smile:

I guess the key (and the difficulty) is to find that perfect ratio needed in the recipe to get the texture you want.

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  • 2 months later...

Hey ReneeK, if you are lurking about, I wanted to report back on my 3rd time experimenting with your frosting recipe. I am getting closer to what I want, I think... this time adding a touch of salt and more hoon kueh powder, cocoa and sugar.

My 3 year old is having a fine time licking the bowl - ok... I mean he is eating spoonsful of the stuff - every time I work on this :biggrin:

Anyway I will let you know when I hit the jackpot, haha.

Edited by LittleIsland (log)
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Does the frosting you're looking for look like this....

gallery_11355_614_7535.jpg

gallery_11355_614_33561.jpg

I've been looking for the same kind of frosting. These pictures were of a cake in the Philippines, but I don't think they use green bean flour there. If I find something, I'll post it, but if anyone out there has a recipe for a frosting that looks like this, please post it! I'd be forever grateful!

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That doesn't look too far off a ganache. But I'm no expert.

The frosting I am trying to perfect is a bit darker than that, just as glossy, a bit fluffier in texture. What I achieved today actually looks very much like the frosting in your picture. So you might want to give it a try.

Strangely enough, I am finding my experiments tasting a bit too much like the semi-sweet chocolate so am going to try all cocoa the next time and see what that does to the taste.

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That doesn't look too far off a ganache.  But I'm no expert. 

The frosting I am trying to perfect is a bit darker than that, just as glossy, a bit fluffier in texture.  What I achieved today actually looks very much like the frosting in your picture.  So you might want to give it a try.

The texture is quite different from what I think of as ganache. It's gooey-ish. I've always thought there was quite a bit of corn syrup in it, but I'm not sure.

I'll give your recipe a try next time I make chocolate cake. Now where to find green bean flour in Japan...

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Hi Littleisland, glad you bumped this thread back up. Wow, you've been hard at work experimenting :smile:

Umm.... my recipe doesn't have any gelatine in it :blink: It's instant jelly (very different from gelatine, with a completely different texture).

Oh, btw, as for hoon kueh powder, I was just talking to a friend the other day, and I recalled what you said about the not liking the taste and texture, and we agreed that it can depend quite a bit on the brand of hoon kueh you use. I personally tend to use the one that comes in a small white paper roll (sold in the supermarkets). I've heard from several friends that the one sold in a huge pack bought from Phoon Huat doesn't work as well texture and taste wise. Hope that helps.

Do keep me posted on how things are going. Good luck!

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Well I have 6 bowls of chocolate frosting on the table right now waiting for my cousin to come over and help me taste-test :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I have to say I haven't seen unflavoured instant jelly - never looked I guess. I just - and obviously erroneously - assumed it was gelatine. But you know what, I think I like the texture with just the hk flour without additional setting agents. But I'll let you know how it goes anyway.

Oh and thanks for the tip on the hk flour. I did buy the 1kg pack in anticipation of experimenting and given today's activity, am glad I did!

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