Extremely Orange, Orange Muffins

[RodneyCk]

Actually Cadbury, going back over the recipe and comparing it to yours, you should be comparing version 5 of mine to yours. Version 4, if you read the notes, I accidentally left out the butter, so that is the difference between the two and why there is a slight indention.

Still, version 5 did not dome at all, or at least did during baking and then flattened out on cooling. There is not that much difference, taking flavorings out which would not affect the muffin texture or shape, to your recipe. Butter, sugar, egg and flour ratio the same. I do not have self rising flour, so I made my own or converted in that recipe by using 1 cup unbleached all-purpose + 1/2 tsp salt + 1 1/2 tsp baking powder = 1 cup of self-rising flour, still the same as what your recipe required.

The only glaring difference is the substitution of juice to milk, but the same amount of liquid remains. One medium orange yields about 1/2 cup of liquid.

There was bitterness in all ground-up orange skins in every recipe they were in, so I will have to remove the pith. Again, the level of bitterness depended on the orange, of course, the latest attempt being the worst, ie pithy orange.

Like I said, I will try your recipe as is in the event something did go wrong, flour substitution remains however, because I can not find self-rising flour.

Thanks again...

Edited July 19, 2006 by RodneyCk (log)

[Cadbury]

There is not that much difference, taking flavorings out which would not affect the muffin texture or shape, to your recipe.  Butter, sugar, egg and flour ratio the same.  I do not have self rising flour, so I made my own or converted in that recipe by using 1 cup unbleached all-purpose + 1/2 tsp salt + 1 1/2 tsp baking powder = 1 cup of self-rising flour, still the same as what your recipe required.

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Okay, I guess I should have pointed out in my recipe that the cups used are metric cups holding 250ml each. You need to allow for this difference when working out your quantities of sugar and flour.

My guide to converting plain (all purpose) flour + baking powder to make self-raising flour uses 3/4 metric cup flour to two level teaspoons baking powder so for my recipe you need 4 teaspoons baking powder. Another muffin book I have uses flour and baking powder in the same proportions. If you wish to err on the side of caution perhaps try 3 1/2 teaspoons. I would be leaving out the salt as well.

[RodneyCk]

There is not that much difference, taking flavorings out which would not affect the muffin texture or shape, to your recipe.  Butter, sugar, egg and flour ratio the same.  I do not have self rising flour, so I made my own or converted in that recipe by using 1 cup unbleached all-purpose + 1/2 tsp salt + 1 1/2 tsp baking powder = 1 cup of self-rising flour, still the same as what your recipe required.

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Okay, I guess I should have pointed out in my recipe that the cups used are metric cups holding 250ml each. You need to allow for this difference when working out your quantities of sugar and flour.

My guide to converting plain (all purpose) flour + baking powder to make self-raising flour uses 3/4 metric cup flour to two level teaspoons baking powder so for my recipe you need 4 teaspoons baking powder. Another muffin book I have uses flour and baking powder in the same proportions. If you wish to err on the side of caution perhaps try 3 1/2 teaspoons. I would be leaving out the salt as well.

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LOL...that explains it. To bad you did not catch that sooner because I did bake them off today and they were exactly like version 5 above. I will post pictures later and my evaluation. I was going to suggest adding more baking powder or baking soda. Now it make sense, metric, and 4 tsp of baking powder sounds about right.

[RodneyCk]

I had time to bake off two muffin versions tonight. One was the original muffin version I slightly altered from Cadbury, listed in the eGullet recipe file. It turns out that the measurements are in metric which is why my muffins were turning out flat, just like the ones in version 5 (the same recipe but altered using milk instead of the juice and then added flavorings.)

Results are the same as before, a pound cake, very buttery tasting muffin. There was a slight bitterness from the pith and as you may or may not be able to see in the last picture, slight vertical webbing, with large holes. I have outlined in red the area and I have circled the pockets of holes formed, sort of hard to see though. I have gotten this with every attempt using the food processor, not so much in this recipe as the butter/moisture helps conceal it, but since I have baked so many muffins in a row, I am able to detect even the slightest gluten forming band.

I can not really go on to critic this muffin as the measurements were off, but I can critic the flavorings. I am not a big fan of orange juice as the main or partial liquid ingredient in muffins. I know this now. Some may like it, but to me, like in my very fist attempt (only more extreme because I used orange juice concentrate there) it produced a slight sour/sweet tinge. This is definitely not the type of orange I am after, but some may prefer it. I used orange juice in version 9 as well, which I will post the results next. Other than that, it had a very mild orange taste, not to intense, probably in the medium range.

On to version 9 results…

[RodneyCk]

Version 9 results…

I am glad to report that bitterness from the rind has been eliminated. I was very excited this turned out. I did not even have to use the boiling water, just peeling the orange rind with a vegetable peeler (works great btw) and then removing any white pith left on the rind with a sharp knife took care of the problem. I maintained that extreme orange flavor and not one note of bitterness.

The increase in butter by 2 tablespoons helped in adding more moisture, but there was still a slight “bread texture” to it, so I am making some adjustments. Those being;

1. increase the sugar from 3/4 cup back up to 1 cup. Sugar makes the muffin more tender, something it needs a bit more of.

2. increase the baking soda. This to will help with the tenderness problem as well. I also experience doming, which is good, but it was sort of lopsided doming, not even. You can see this in one of the pictures. Since I am changing to more baking soda, I want to offset it with an acidic liquid.

3. switch from 3/4 cup to 1 cup of acid liquid, preferably sour cream or yogurt, but even buttermilk or in the worst case orange juice. The first two will also give me more richness.

4. add in the third level flavoring agent. The first level is the orange rind, then there is the orange extracts and zest, and third will be the orange oil (for all natural) or Kool-Aid (non-natural.) I already know that 1 package of Kool-Aid works from version 4, spot on, so time to get the adjustment for orange oil down.

Other possible uses for orange oil may be in the glazing liquid, but I want to get the orange muffin perfected first.

Really nice muffin overall and with a few tweaks for the dry/bread-like structure listed above and off doming, we should be near.

Here is the recipe for next time…

Extremely Orange, Orange Muffins, take 10

Muffins:

2 medium-size oranges

1 1/4 cups unbleached all-purpose flour

1/2 cup + 1 tablespoon cake flour

2 teaspoons baking powder

3/4 teaspoon baking soda

3/4 teaspoon salt

1 cup sugar

1/2 cup + 2 tablespoons cold unsalted butter, cut into 1/2-inch cubes

1 cup sour cream or yogurt or buttermilk or fresh orange juice, strained or any combination mentioned

2 teaspoons orange extract

1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract

1/4 teaspoon of orange oil* or 1 package of Kool-Aid® Orange Drink Mix

2 large eggs

Glaze:

1/2 cup sugar

2 tablespoons of butter

*Orange oil can be found at specialty gourmet food stores or online.

Preheat oven to 350F and grease muffin tins with unsaturated oil.

Thinly peel one orange with a vegetable peeler or sharp knife. Remove any white pith from the rind and place in a food processor.

Add the sour cream, eggs, extracts and orange oil or Kool-Aid® into the food processor and pulse on/off for 40 seconds; set aside.

In a large bowl, add the sugar and zest of second orange. With your fingers or a pastry cutter, work the zest into the sugar, allowing extraction and distribution of the oils into the sugar. You can do this step a day or two in advance to allow for better penetration of the oils.

Next, sift flours, baking powder, baking soda, and salt into the large bowl with the sugar mixture.

Add butter cubes to the flour mixture and with a pastry cutter or your finger tips, mash ingredients together until a fine cornmeal like texture occurs. Form a well in the center of the flour and add the liquid mixture. With no more than 14 or 15 strokes, fold the ingredients together.

Fill the prepared muffin tins 2/3 full using a large spoon to carefully place the batter into each tin. Do not pour the batter. Bake muffins for 25 to 30 minutes or until a toothpick comes out with crumbs on it, but with no visible wet batter.

Meanwhile: Cut one of the oranges in half and extract the juice from the two halves through a strainer/sieve over a liquid measuring cup. If the orange juice does not equal 1/2 cup, use the juice from the second orange.

Make the glaze by combining the orange juice and sugar in a small pot on the stove over medium-high heat. Bring to boil, and then on low heat simmer for 5 minutes with a lid covering the pot to prevent sugar crystals. Remove from heat and stir in the butter. Set aside to cool.

Remove the muffins from the oven and immediately (in less than two minutes from the oven) take them out of the tins and place on a wire rack. When cool enough to handle, using a toothpick or skewer, poke several holes through the muffin tops into each of the muffins. Spoon glaze over muffin tops to saturate, allowing the liquid to sink down into the holes and any excess to drip back into the bowl, continue the same for the next muffin. Repeat this glazing twice for each muffin. Place on wire rack to cool completely.

[Cadbury]

LOL...that explains it. To bad you did not catch that sooner because I did bake them off today and they were exactly like version 5 above.  I will post pictures later and my evaluation.  I was going to suggest adding more baking powder or baking soda. Now it make sense, metric, and 4 tsp of baking powder sounds about right.

Actually, I did think you might have figured it out when the butter is in grams and the oven temperature is in Celsius.

However, I'm glad you're getting towards the results you're looking for.

[RodneyCk]

LOL...that explains it. To bad you did not catch that sooner because I did bake them off today and they were exactly like version 5 above.  I will post pictures later and my evaluation.  I was going to suggest adding more baking powder or baking soda. Now it make sense, metric, and 4 tsp of baking powder sounds about right.

Actually, I did think you might have figured it out when the butter is in grams and the oven temperature is in Celsius.

However, I'm glad you're getting towards the results you're looking for.

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Oh I was fiddling with the conversion thingy on eGullet and messed up, half was in metric, the rest in cups. I converted it (ml) so it should translate into something like this;

1 orange

13 tablespoons of melted butter

3 large eggs

1 1/8 cups castor sugar

3 1/2 cups self-rising flour OR (3 cups + 1 tablespoon) all-purpose flour + (1 tablespoon + 2 1/4 tsp) baking powder + 1 3/4 tsp salt

Edited July 20, 2006 by RodneyCk (log)

[Cadbury]

Oh I was fiddling with the conversion thingy on eGullet and messed up, half was in metric, the rest in cups.  I converted it (ml) so it should translate into something like this;

1 orange

13 tablespoons of melted butter

3 large eggs

1 1/8 cups castor sugar

3 1/2 cups self-rising flour OR (3 cups + 1 tablespoon) all-purpose flour + (1 tablespoon + 2 1/4 tsp) baking powder + 1 3/4 tsp salt

I think your conversions for the flour are not right. Think about it: if you've converted 1 metric cup sugar to be 1 1/8 cups, how can 1 1/2 metric cups possibly become 3 1/2 cups?

My book tells me that 1 metric cup = 1 1/4 US cups and 1/2 metric cup = 2/3 US cups. Your baking powder would then need to be no more that 4tsp or 1 tablespoon+1tsp (1 tablespoon would probably suffice).

Also, I find it easy to weigh butter if I'm melting it to prevent waste. You need 6 1/2 oz butter or 1 US cup. I will be back shortly with weights for the dry ingredients, that may help sort things out.

1 orange

6.5 oz butter (1 US cup)

3 large eggs

6.3 oz caster sugar (1 1/4 US cups)

7 oz SR flour (1 2/3 + 1/4 cup) or all-purpose +1 Tablespoon+1 tsp baking powder

Edited to add weights

Edited July 20, 2006 by Cadbury (log)

[RodneyCk]

Extremely Orange, Orange Muffins, take 10 results are in.

Well I did it. I finally achieved both texture and a wonderfully flavored orange muffin that can easily be adjusted at the baker’s discretion.

The muffins were moist, buttery, but not overpowering. In fact the butter held up the flavor in the background, the way I remember. The texture is now tender, not course or harsh on the tongue, yet the morsels still pocket together in your mouth to have a muffin feel, not a fluffy cake crumb that dissolves into air.

I assume the added sugar and a bit more baking soda was key, as well as the liquids. You have a choice of four or any combination of the four acidic liquids to use. I chose 1/2 cup of sour cream and 1/2 cup of buttermilk. Perfect! The tang from the sour cream played well with the orange flavor and the buttermilk, well made it seem a bit buttery without adding more greasy fat.

Orange flavor-wise, for me the non-natural Kool-Aid was what I remember the coffee house muffin tasting like, but the orange oil works well. I actually bumped it up to 1/2 tsp instead of 1/4, and I am glad I did. I think it could be taken up to 1 tsp for an extreme orange flavor. Remember, flavorings added before baking, bake off and mellow out considerably, especially medium note fragrances and flavorings such as orange. Lemon, however, being a high note fragrance would probably be much more pronounced and noticeable after baking.

I think this is what I am most proud of through this experience, the fact that the orange flavor is not sour or bitter but even throughout. One only has to read through this thread to find out why. That is not to say others may prefer the use of orange juice or the slightly bitter back note of using a whole orange in the recipe. I do not, but the recipe can easily be altered to use them.

Back to the orange oil for a moment, I would like to try it in the glaze. Like I stated, most of the extreme orange flavor it imparts bakes off inside the muffin, but using it in moistening syrup would definitely kick it up a notch without using much quantity-wise, I would think. I will try this in my next test. The moistening syrup is perfect, and applying it twice is recommended, really adds more flavor and the muffins glisten.

Coloring-wise, it does not look very orange, inside or out, except for the few hints of zest here and there. I will leave the natural muffin up to the baker, as they may want to add food coloring gel to the liquid portion of the recipe. There are many references I have found to people ordering brightly colored orange muffins at restaurants on the internet, btw. Non-natural, the Kool-Aid does the trick.

Except for a test on the glaze using orange oil, I am nearing the end. I may, just for my own curiosity add in 1 egg yolk more, just to see if that imparts a bit more richness and tighter crumb, maybe a slightly higher rise, but I would be very happy to consider it perfect as is.

[Varmint]

I nominate this discussion to be the most anal-retentive thread in eGullet's history. And seeing this is eGullet, that's a good thing. I will wait until the experimentation is over and then make the final product. I LOVE orange muffins.

[RodneyCk]

I nominate this discussion to be the most anal-retentive thread in eGullet's history.  And seeing this is eGullet, that's a good thing.  I will wait until the experimentation is over and then make the final product.  I LOVE orange muffins.

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LOL... Oh no, I can only imagine if eGullet had some kind of award to present for this category, what it must look like, two cheeks with a muffin between them???

Thanks. The recipe should be done soon, so stay tuned.

[jasie]

I did not even have to use the boiling water, just peeling the orange rind with a vegetable peeler (works great btw) and then removing any white pith left on the rind with a sharp knife took care of the problem. 

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Wouldn't using a microplane or zester be faster or less work?

By the way, enjoying the process and thank you for painstakingly trying and experimenting! And I too, will be waiting for the final version to make it. MmmM. Orange muffins!

[Ekaterina]

Rodney,

I am not sure if anyone has suggested this earlier (did not have the chance to read the whole thread), but you could try to rub the zest into the sugar with you hands to get out the flavor and the color. This technique is very similar to rubbing butter into the flour by hand. This should give you the orange color you are looking for in the dough.

Good luck!

[meredithla]

This has been so much fun following this thread. This is just the sort of experiment I'd love to do if I had less children and more time (apparently you have feed AND pay attention to the little creatures...!) So alas, I live vicariously through your test kitchen! It's like reality tv for foodies. I will look forward to baking the final recipe that outwits, outplays and outlasts it's predecessors.

[RodneyCk]

Rodney,

I am not sure if anyone has suggested this earlier (did not have the chance to read the whole thread), but you could try to rub the zest into the sugar with you hands to get out the flavor and the color.  This technique is very similar to rubbing butter into the flour by hand.  This should give you the orange color you are looking for in the dough.

Good luck!

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Thank you. Someone did mention it earlier and I am grateful that they did. The method has been incorporated into the recipe and exists in the current one.

It works perfectly with the "pastry method" of mixing and I have found that the pastry cutter tool really mashed the zest into the sugar. In the end, the sugar changes color. Then all the dry ingredients are add and butter is cut into the mixture. This is like a double mashing for the zest as it then imparts its flavor and color into the flour and butter as well. Perfect.

Color-wise though, the muffins do take on a slight orange hue, very slight, after baking, but not enough for someone to walk into a room, look at one and say, "Oh, that is an orange muffin." Which is why I think a lot coffee house orange muffins are colored.

[RodneyCk]

This has been so much fun following this thread.  This is just the sort of experiment I'd love to do if I had less children and more time (apparently you have feed AND pay attention to the little creatures...!)  So alas, I live vicariously through your test kitchen!  It's like reality tv for foodies.  I will look forward to baking the final recipe that outwits, outplays and outlasts it's predecessors.

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Thank you for following my obsession. I find this process a lot of fun. Your really learn, particularly on a more hands-on way, the art and science behind a recipe. It was great getting all the other options from the readers, sort of like brainstorming. As soon as I was stumped, it seemed like someone came in with an answer or another way of working.

I did this once before on my own for my chocolate cake recipe. I had tried what seemed like hundreds of recipes and was fed up with trying to find a chocolate cake that was fudge like, very moist, but still held the characteristics of a cake. I did it and people rave every time I make it.

It, like the orange muffin process, was daunting and I only do it when I can not find what I am looking for, a last resort really. I encourage everyone to try this test kitchen process at least once, even if it is a recipe with few ingredients.

[RodneyCk]

Wouldn't using a microplane or zester be faster or less work?

By the way, enjoying the process and thank you for painstakingly trying and experimenting! And I too, will be waiting for the final version to make it. MmmM. Orange muffins! 

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Actually a lot of extra orange flavor and oils are in the orange skin that is the zest part and the very thin membrane above the pithy white. You can sort of see the oils/moisture if you squeeze or take a knife to the back and start scraping and pressing. If you can't see it, you can certainly smell it intensely as the knife digs in. It is just a way to get a bit more flavor than just using the very, very outer part (zest.) You just do not want to go much deeper or you get the pith.

Thanks, and glad you are enjoying the orange muffin journey!!

[cakewalk]

Hi Rodney,

I've enjoyed this thread a lot (as have many others.) And now ... the moment we've all been waiting for ... has it arrived? You mentioned that you were still tweaking a thing or two. Or is take 10 pretty much complete? Just wondering ...

Thanks, 'cause I'm looking forward to trying these.

[RodneyCk]

Extremely Orange, Orange Muffins, take 11 and 12.

Thanks Cakewalk for the comments, but not quite done yet. I am doing last minute tweaking. Here was the latest tweak and results;

Extremely Orange, Orange Muffins, take 11

Muffins:

2 medium-size oranges

1 1/4 cups unbleached all-purpose flour

1/2 cup + 1 tablespoon cake flour

2 teaspoons baking powder

3/4 teaspoon baking soda

3/4 teaspoon salt

1 cup sugar

10 tablespoons cold unsalted butter, cut into 1/2-inch cubes

1 cup** sour cream or yogurt or buttermilk or fresh orange juice, strained

2 teaspoons orange extract

1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract

1/2 teaspoon of orange oil* or 1 package of Kool-Aid® Orange Drink Mix

2 large eggs + 1 yolk

Glaze:

1/2 cup sugar

2 tablespoons of butter

1/4 teaspoon orange oil*

Instructions are pretty much the same as take 10.

Results:

I added 1 yolk in this version to see what it would do. I also added for the first time orange oil (1/4 tsp) to the glaze as mentioned previously.

The muffin, appearance-wise, was exactly the same as the results for version 10, sorry no pics. The yolk made it a bit more cake-like, to much so for my taste, but an option that works for someone who prefers more of a cupcake muffin. I am taking this back out in version 12.

The other thing that is just bugging me is the slight loss of doming. It still has a little doming as you can see from version 10's pictures, but I want a bit more. During baking it raises up, then falls a bit, so I am thinking it needs a bit more flour for support after the baking soda/powder release their gases or bubbles. However, it is a tricky slope, because I do not want to loose to much of the moist buttery, not-so-bread-like texture. I want to try 1/4 cup more cake flour in version 12 to see. If it does not work out, I can live with the muffin as is. I am being nitpicky.

I also want to switch to pure baking soda. Baking powder from what I understand works in two ways, it immediately starts to activate when the liquid is added, giving off carbon dioxide, then again during baking (double acting.) In muffins, especially since I am using an acidic liquid, I want to switch to all baking soda to prevent the initial reaction. Madeleine Kamman, in her white flour muffin recipe, does not add baking powder to the dry ingredients and waits until right before the liquid is added by sprinkling it over the top. Also, using about 1 1/2 tsps of baking powder per cup of flour is average, but anymore could impart an off flavor. I am just going to side-step this whole thing and use all baking soda. Baking soda usually comes out to 1 part baking soda to 4 parts baking powder, so my substitution should equal, ie I am not adding anymore leavening really than what you see in version 10, just switching.

The last and greatest discover was the use of orange oil in the glaze. Oh I also decreased the butter to 1 T instead of 2, and it was just right. The oil sent the flavor of the muffin over the top to perfection. I have now obtained an extreme orange taste in the natural muffin (ie., no Kool-Aid.) They were very, very orange and very, very tasty, just like the original.

So for next time, this is what I am going to try and it should be my last attempt if all goes well;

Extremely Orange, Orange Muffins, take 12

Muffins:

2 medium-size oranges

1 cup sour cream or yogurt or buttermilk (or use a combination to equal 1 cup)

2 teaspoons orange extract

1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract

1/2 teaspoon orange oil* or 1 package Kool-Aid® Orange Drink Mix

2 large eggs

1 cup sugar

1 1/4 cups unbleached all-purpose flour

3/4 cup cake flour

1 teaspoon baking soda

1/2 teaspoon salt

10 tablespoons cold unsalted butter, cut into 1/2-inch cubes

Glaze:

1/2 cup sugar

1 tablespoons of butter

1/4 teaspoon orange oil*

*Orange oil can be found at specialty gourmet food stores or online.

Preheat oven to 350F and grease muffin tins with unsaturated oil.

Thinly peel one orange with a vegetable peeler or sharp knife. Remove any white pith from the rind and place in a food processor.

Add the sour cream, eggs, extracts and orange oil or Kool-Aid® into the food processor and pulse on/off for 40 seconds; set aside.

In a large bowl, add the sugar and zest of second orange. With your fingers or a pastry cutter, work the zest into the sugar, allowing extraction and distribution of the oils into the sugar. You can do this step a day or two in advance to allow for better penetration of the oils.

Next, sift flours, baking soda, and salt into the large bowl with the sugar mixture.

Add butter cubes to the flour mixture and with a pastry cutter or your finger tips, mash ingredients together until a fine cornmeal like texture occurs. Form a well in the center of the flour and add the liquid mixture. With no more than 14 or 15 strokes, fold the ingredients together.

Fill the prepared muffin tins 2/3 full using a large spoon to carefully place the batter into each tin. Do not pour the batter. Bake muffins for 25 to 30 minutes or until a toothpick comes out with crumbs on it, but with no visible wet batter.

Meanwhile: Cut one of the oranges in half and extract the juice from the two halves through a strainer/sieve over a liquid measuring cup. If the orange juice does not equal 1/2 cup, use the juice from the second orange.

Make the glaze by combining the orange juice and sugar in a small pot on the stove over medium-high heat. Bring to boil, and then on low heat simmer for 5 minutes with a lid covering the pot to prevent sugar crystals. Remove from heat and stir in the butter. Cool slightly, and then stir in orange oil before ready to use.

Remove the muffins from the oven and immediately (in less than two minutes from the oven) take them out of the tins and place on a wire rack. When cool enough to handle, using a toothpick or skewer, poke several holes through the muffin tops into each of the muffins. Spoon glaze over muffin tops to saturate, allowing the liquid to sink down into the holes and any excess to drip back into the bowl, continue the same for the next muffin. Repeat this glazing twice for each muffin. Place on wire rack to cool completely.

[Pontormo]

True dedication, Rodney. Curious about the glaze: why use a tiny bit of extract instead of fresh orange juice? I've always had success with the latter.

And Sarah Phillips, I was very interested in your professional perspective offered a while back about the flavors in the oils of the orange zest. If you're still reading this thread, I wonder if you might offer further comments on the following:

1) In limited experience with two recipes that have given me great success, I have never noticed any adverse effects resulting from the use of the entire orange, pith and all. The cottony texture seemed the only real drawback and with just a couple of oranges, it just never proved noticeable. Does the pith really have any adverse effects if included in muffins and cakes?

2) I just mixed the zest from a single orange with olive oil. (I'll be added a few more things to make something Silician.) The potent flavor is noticeably bitter, thus making my suspicions about pith's harmlessness even stronger. Luck of the draw? Due to season? Type of orange?

Thanks.

[RodneyCk]

Hi Pontormo,

There is no extract in my glaze. In my glaze, I use 1/2 cup of orange juice (from one or two of the oranges listed) + 1/2 cup sugar + 1 T of butter + 1/4 tsp of orange oil. You could substitute, which I will add, the zest of an orange for the orange oil btw. So, to answer your question, I do use the orange juice along with the orange oil (not extract) which imparts that extra orange flavor the muffin needs.

In regards to using a whole orange in a recipe, I am assuming you are referring to a muffin or baked good, in my discoveries above, I have found that the pith imparts a bitter taste in the background. The orange juice imparts a hint of sourness, neither of which I wanted in the muffin. Remove them and you are left with that middle tone orange flavor that the skin imparts, where most of the oil is concentrated. Some may not mind pith and/or the juice's sourness in their product as it is a personal taste, but they were present. Plus, most of the orange flavor itself dissipates during baking so what you are left with, if using both, is a sour/bitter hint of orange.

You are correct though, every orange is different, and some just have more pith or at least taste bitterer than others. Also the intensity of the orange flavor is stronger in some oranges, especially during peak season, so select the best.

[RodneyCk]

Extremely Orange, Orange Muffins, take 12 results

I made another nice discovery in this trial while I was perusing the dairy aisle at the supermarket, naturally flavored orange yogurt. Bells literally went off. Here is yet another way to subtle get a bit of orange flavor and bit of color in the baked good while maintaining the needed acidic liquid. This yogurt used orange pulp cells for its flavor and annatto extract, from the annatto seeds for coloring. Perfect.

Unfortunately most flavored yogurts contain sugar and that means more sugar in the recipe. It comes out to about 2 1/2 tablespoons of sugar per cup of yogurt. I don’t mind the extra sugar, not that much really, but I want to maintain my 1 cup of liquid, so I also added in 2 tablespoons of extra liquid (sour cream/buttermilk/orange juice) in combination with the 1 cup of orange flavored yogurt.

The only other two changes again were the extra 1/4 cup of cake flour for more stability and removing the baking powder for all baking soda.

The results were very promising. I achieved a domed top, although a few muffins were lopsided in their doming. They had a darker, surgery crust which was really delicious, also gave it more of a muffin feel. I assume this resulted because of the extra sugar in the yogurt, not sure if baking soda would cause this. There seemed to be a slight tinge of orange color inside, again from the annatto coloring. The texture was even, still moist and perfect. The flavor was again, pure even orange flavor, intense but not bitter or sour with the backing of buttery goodness to carry it through. Like the original, muffin and cake like throughout, the best of both worlds.

I am going to attempt this one more time before summiting a summary and final recipe. The next trial will be exactly the same, but back to using the baking soda and powder in version 10. I want to see how the added 1/4 cup of flour holds up against the baking powder.

For next time…

Extremely Orange, Orange Muffins, take 13

Muffins:

2 medium-size oranges

1 cup (8 oz) naturally flavored orange yogurt (can substitute sour cream or buttermilk but omit the 2 tablespoons of extra liquid listed next)

2 tablespoons extra liquid, use sour cream, buttermilk or freshly squeezed, strained orange juice

2 teaspoons orange extract

1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract

1/2 teaspoon orange oil* or 1 package Kool-Aid® Orange Drink Mix

2 large eggs

1 cup sugar

1 1/4 cups unbleached all-purpose flour

3/4 cup cake flour

2 teaspoons baking powder

3/4 teaspoon baking soda

3/4 teaspoon salt

10 tablespoons cold unsalted butter, cut into 1/2-inch cubes

Glaze:

1/2 cup sugar

1 tablespoons of butter

1/4 teaspoon orange oil*

*Orange oil can be found at specialty gourmet food stores or online.

Preheat oven to 350F and grease muffin tins with unsaturated oil.

Thinly peel one orange with a vegetable peeler or sharp knife. Remove any white pith from the rind and place in a food processor.

Add the yogurt, extra liquid, eggs, extracts and orange oil or Kool-Aid® into the food processor and pulse on/off for 40 seconds; set aside.

In a large bowl, add the sugar and zest of second orange. With your fingers or a pastry cutter, work the zest into the sugar, allowing extraction and distribution of the oils into the sugar. You can do this step a day or two in advance to allow for better penetration of the oils.

Next, sift flours, baking soda, and salt into the large bowl with the sugar mixture.

Add butter cubes to the flour mixture and with a pastry cutter or your finger tips, mash ingredients together until a fine cornmeal like texture occurs. Form a well in the center of the flour and add the liquid mixture. With no more than 14 or 15 strokes, fold the ingredients together.

Fill the prepared muffin tins 2/3 full using a large spoon to carefully place the batter into each tin. Do not pour the batter. Bake muffins for 25 to 30 minutes or until a toothpick comes out with crumbs on it, but with no visible wet batter.

Meanwhile: Cut one of the oranges in half and extract the juice from the two halves through a strainer/sieve over a liquid measuring cup. If the orange juice does not equal 1/2 cup, use the juice from the second orange.

Make the glaze by combining the orange juice and sugar in a small pot on the stove over medium-high heat. Bring to boil, and then on low heat simmer for 5 minutes with a lid covering the pot to prevent sugar crystals. Remove from heat and stir in the butter. Cool slightly, and then stir in orange oil before ready to use.

Remove the muffins from the oven and immediately (in less than two minutes from the oven) take them out of the tins and place on a wire rack. When cool enough to handle, using a toothpick or skewer, poke several holes through the muffin tops into each of the muffins. Spoon glaze over muffin tops to saturate, allowing the liquid to sink down into the holes and any excess to drip back into the bowl, continue the same for the next muffin. Repeat this glazing once more, only the second time spoon glaze over the bottom and sides of the muffin, letting the excess drip back into the bowl. Place on wire rack to cool completely.

[Beanie]

Rodney,

I know you are about to conclude this mission and post the final result. However, I thought of you instantly when I saw this on a shelf in the Asian market, and wanted to share this "find" in case you decide to keep tweaking the recipe.

Although it is called "orange juice," it is in fact a thick syrup. The English description on the back label says: "The sap is condensed from fresh oranges. As orange is rich in fragrance and vitamin, especially in vitamin C. It is the best healthy beverage refined from pure sugar." "Drinking method is as follows: Please pour with six times of ice water or hot boiled water. It's flavor is excellent." Ingredients are: orange, sugar, water.

I bought it out of curiosity, thinking it might be just what the doctor ordered for your extremely orange muffin. Undiluted, it has a very intense orange flavor, is not sweet at all, and is very orangey in color. This is what it looks like on a white plate:

Now that I have this stuff, I'll think I'll have to make orange muffins. Thanks for this terrific thread. I've really enjoyed it!

[RodneyCk]

Ilene,

Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention and for posting pictures. How interesting and the product sounds delicious. I will have to make a trip to Chinatown and see if I can find it. I would assume that it would be perfect to use in the glaze. I would have to play around with it the consistency and potency for use in the muffin itself.

However, since it is one of those products that many people can not access, I doubt I will include it in this recipe. For those who can obtain it, the more orange the better.

Thanks again,

Rodney

[Patrick S]

Rodney,

I know you are about to conclude this mission and post the final result. However, I thought of you instantly when I saw this on a shelf in the Asian market, and wanted to share this "find" in case you decide to keep tweaking the recipe.

Although it is called "orange juice," it is in fact a thick syrup. The English description on the back label says: "The sap is condensed from fresh oranges. As orange is rich in fragrance and vitamin, especially in vitamin C. It is the best healthy beverage refined from pure sugar."  "Drinking method is as follows: Please pour with six times of ice water or hot boiled water. It's flavor is excellent."  Ingredients are: orange, sugar, water.

I bought it out of curiosity, thinking it might be just what the doctor ordered for your extremely orange muffin.    Undiluted, it has a very intense orange flavor, is not sweet at all, and is very orangey in color. This is what it looks like on a white plate:

Now that I have this stuff, I'll think I'll have to make orange muffins.    Thanks for this terrific thread. I've really enjoyed it!

←

On a similar note, RLB has a recipe for orange curd that calls for reducing 1C of fresh juice to 2T in the microwave. This gives a thick, intensely orange-flavored liquid. I haven't read this whole thread, so I apologize if this has been suggested already.