Perfect Stir Fries

[Raj Banerjee]

Do Chinese people eat steamed green vegetables-ie cooked in a steamer, not fried and then covered with a lid? I've always thought it an unsuitable method for greens in any cuisine.

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In the Chinese places in London's Chinatown, if I order a plate of gai laan or choi sum etc, you can generally see the guy make it in the window where the ducks/char sui etc hangs (at least in the couple of places I go to you can)...they take the bundle of veg, place it in a stock to cook, then plate it either with garlic fried with salt (as per hzrt8w's instructions) and a little of the stock to moisten it, or with oyster sauce, depending on how you've ordered. I dont think its stir fried since its arranged as a bundle on the plates, with only the leaves/stem of the gai laan separated and not 'oily' tasting or looking, like it would be from a wok - no wok "hey" (sp?).

At home, rather than boiling up stock etc, I tend to speed the process up (and lose a little flavour, I'm sure) by just steaming the veg for a couple of mins and then adding either garlic or oyster sauce. For greens, it tastes ok by me, but I am not sure this is perhaps how its done in the Chinese home.

Is steaming greens an unsuitable way to cook them?

Raj

[muichoi]

I find it's too slow, doesn't do much for the colour or texture, and encourages bitterness. Now a large vat of boiling stock would be nice to have perpetually on the go!

[liuzhou]

Do Chinese people eat steamed green vegetables-ie cooked in a steamer, not fried and then covered with a lid? I've always thought it an unsuitable method for greens in any cuisine.

I've never seen anyone steam vegetables here in China. Green vegetables are always fried.

[hzrt8w]

About 4 posts upthread you will find my  tirade about oyster sauce. Go read some older Chinese cookbooks and you will find oyster sauce hardly ever mentioned. It has become ubiquitous in cooking in recent years because people love "shortcuts".

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I disagree that oyster sauce is used as "shortcuts". Shortcuts to what? Cookings always evolve. There are dishes we see as common place today that I had not heard-of/eaten/seen as a child in Hong Kong. For example: XO sauce stir-fries, Zha Leung ("yau tieu" wrapped in steamed rice noodles), black pepper steak ribs, stir-fried udon/spaghetti, etc., etc.. New items get created everyday. Those which get accepted by large population will find the way into the menu of many restaurants.

Oyster sauce may be a very expensive item once (and so are many ingredients). Or it may not even exist 50 years ago. The Japanese dried Shitake Mushrooms (black mushrooms) that are sold for US$7.00 a big everywhere today were once sold 5 times that price, and that was only 10-20 years ago. Well... the "dan tart" as we know it today, where you can buy some from virtually any restaurants/stores in Hong Kong that have a baker, did not exist a hundred years ago.

Today using oyster sauce in cooking/marination is a common place. The only thing that matters is whether the end result tastes good.

[hzrt8w]

In the Chinese places in London's Chinatown, if I order a plate of gai laan or choi sum etc, you can generally see the guy make it in the window where the ducks/char sui etc hangs (at least in the couple of places I go to you can)...they take the bundle of veg, place it in a stock to cook, then plate it either with garlic fried with salt (as per hzrt8w's instructions) and a little of the stock to moisten it, or with oyster sauce, depending on how you've ordered. I dont think its stir fried since its arranged as a bundle on the plates, with only the leaves/stem of the gai laan separated and not 'oily' tasting or looking, like it would be from a wok - no wok "hey" (sp?).

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In Hong Kong (where most of these masters in London/Europe/USA/wherever else come from), there are 2 ways the vegetables like gai lan, choi sum, even ong choy, bak choy, etc. are made.

1) Noodle houses - these houses may or may not have a kitchen (with woks and burners) in the back. But they always have a big pot of boiling water (to cook the noodles) and another pot of high broth in the front. For convenience, they simply boil gai lan/choy sum in hot water and serve them. To add a little flavor, they squeeze on some diluted oyster sauce (and maybe a splash of sesame oil). The dim sum places took this approach and do this in a small cart. They cook the vegetables in front of the customers. Well... not quite. The vegetables are usually slightly undercooked in the kitchen before transferring to the cart.

2) Regular restaurants (with woks and burners in the kitchen). They typically stir-fry vegetables on a wok with oil and a bit of garlic. And typically vegetables are stir-fried with some meat (beef, chicken, etc.).

I don't think it's a traditional Chinese practice to steam vegetables. We steam many things. But vegetables by themselves (not part of a meat dish), seldomly.

[muichoi]

That's exactly what I thought-I must say, though, that I never get as good a result just frying-a very quick blanch first is always better.

[Dejah]

That's exactly what I thought-I must say, though, that I never get as good a result just frying-a very quick blanch first is always better.

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You don't need a perpetual stock pot for effective blanching. I just use water, a bit of salt and sesame oil at home.

In my restaurant days, vegetables are stir-fried for a few minutes, then a scoop of stock is added. As the stock comes to a boil, this finishes cooking the firmer vegetables. Because of the intense heat, a lid is not used, nor is it like boiling vegetables as we would with potatoes.

At home, I blanch veg. in the microwave, except for gai lan. This veg. is touchy. On top of the stove, I can watch it more carefully; otherwise, it turns brownish or has a bitter taste. A quick shock process under cold running water, drain, add garlic cooked in and with the hot oil, topped with heated oyster sauce lightly diluted with stock, and it's ready to go.

Oyster sauce may be used as a quick fix because many restaurants think the customer wants a flavour up front. They don't give the customer enough credit to be able to discern more subtle flavours. Or, they don't take the time to make good stock.

At home, if one really enjoys the flavour of oyster sauce, it may be used as a marinate for many ingredients. My daughter, for example, loves oyster sauce on many things, whereas I prefer without.

As Ben says, everyone has different ideas. We can all learn from someone's recipes, use them as is, or change according to our own tastes.

But, I prefer to use a recipe that has been tested.

[muichoi]

I knew that-but choisam in particular blanched in first class stock finished with just a little hot oil-chinese peanut oil is vastly preferable for this-and a dribble of light soy is a beautiful thing! I'm not at pleased when I cook vegetables from raw in the microwave, but water-blanched then refreshed in icy water they reheat very nicely-and can be beautifully presented.

[Pan]

[...]Oyster sauce may be a very expensive item once (and so are many ingredients).  Or it may not even exist 50 years ago.[...]

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If you're suggesting oyster sauce may not have existed 50 years ago, I've got news for you.

My parents told me about the time when my father was in the army (this would have been in 1953 or '54) and they were living off-base by Fort Leonard Wood in the Missouri Ozarks. They were so far from anywhere that they might have found oyster sauce that they made their own from scratch. When they were done, it tasted just like the oyster sauce they got in a jar back in Brooklyn.

[muichoi]

I wonder when adding cornstarch and caramel began?I have the idea that originally it was much closer to South-East Asian fish sauce.

[Dejah]

[...]Oyster sauce may be a very expensive item once (and so are many ingredients).   Or it may not even exist 50 years ago.[...]

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If you're suggesting oyster sauce may not have existed 50 years ago, I've got news for you.

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I remember having oyster sauce as a child in HK before emigrating in 1958.

I'm not at pleased when I cook vegetables from raw in the microwave, but water-blanched then refreshed in icy water they reheat very nicely-and can be beautifully presented.

I don't COOK raw veg. in the microwave. I use the microwave for blanching - veg in a big bowl of water. I do it mainly to free a burner on the stove for others bits of cooking.

[Ben Hong]

Oyster sauce ,like fish sauce were known to the southern Chinese almost forever. The origins of fish sauce are pretty well centred in and around SE Asia. The origins of oyster sauce are a little more muddy .

My complaint was never against oyster sauce per se, just the over use of the stuff by everyone, usually as a shortcut. Why, even my own usage of it has increased over the past 45 years, mainly for expediency.

Let's as adults, be perfectly frank here. Since the MSG "scare" of about 35 years ago when some fool published a hocus paper on the deleterious effects of MSG (as found in Chinese food) on people everyone clamoured to have MSG free Chinese food, while they were gorging on flavoured potato chips, tortilla chips, canned meals, TV dinners, etc. all foods that contain, on a volume/weight basis much more MSG than Chinese food. Much of this xenophobic attention was focused on Chinese food, while almost everyone else got off scott-free. Just read the labels, folks.

But what has this to do with oyster sauce, you ask? Everything, because with the exception of one or two premium brands every bottle of oyster sauce has MSG or its derivatives as a major flavouring component. Again, read the labels. Soooo, what's a resourceful Chinese cook going to do when his food is criticised as bland and flavourless? Yep, EUR-FRIKKEN-EKA, Y'all. Ta-daa, oyster sauce to the rescue. Now when asked, the same Chinese restauranteurs will roll their eyes and with aplomb, answer "No we don't use MSG". And he will be absolutely right, technically.

So, there you have it! I've let the cat (live and unboiled) out of the bag. It's all about avoiding the pointing fingers of the gwei loh public and levelling the playing field. If you haven't got the time, inclination, or skill to do things from scratch (it's alright, btw) and you are going to use MSG, don't beat around the bush, come out and say so, like Dejah does and I do sometimes. A tiny bit of MSG will allow you to retain all the clean natural flavours of your dishes without muddying them up like oyster sauce will do. (Meat trimmings and bones are so cheap these days, why not make concentrated stock?)

A little goes a long way.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Ben Hong (log)

[stephenc]

mushrooms, water chestnuts and pork.

that's my favorite.

[muichoi]

Makes perfect sense, Ben. Some oyster sauces do not include MSG according to the labels-though I'm not sure how reliable they are here. Others have HVP, which to me is a lot worse. MSG is a useful tool when handled with discretion-a pinch added to a panful of first class stock makes a wonderful difference.