Whole Foods stops selling live lobsters

[Toliver]

Whole Foods in our area was selling Dungeness crabs. Will they go, too?

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If the crabs were held live, then yes, according to this new policy they should go, too.

[Bill Miller]

Crabs are going too. Lobsters are closely related to the cockroach and have a similar nervous system. Do you remember the bad alien in "Men In Black"? Similar animal. Whole Foods is political correctess gone wild with no regard to logic--some body kills the lobster and the crab before they sell it--somebody is inhumane to these little folks at some time. It is kind of like marriage--at some point in a fulfilled relationship between partners some body takes a chance on sexual harrasment. Whole Foods preaches "organic" with no concept that if we only grew "organic" the "Whole World" would starve. Sad.

[RodneyCk]

However, if they are so concerned with the killing and ethical treatment of animals, why do they sell meat at all? Are they absolutely certain that every single morsel of flesh they sell has been raised humanely and killed humanely? I doubt it. I doubt it highly.

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I saw an interview with the owner and he said as far as chickens and eggs, they try and buy from producers that raise and kill humanely. I don't remember him mentioning meat, but I assume the same holds true.

They buy from large organic vegetable producers and local, small producers in the areas, so they are trying to keep the local farmer in business. I don't think their business model is perfect, but compared to giant regular supermarket chains who produce cancer causing, pesticide ridden, awful vegetables and fruit, and buy from animal farms that could care less about the animal and what is pumped in them, at least WF is trying, I will give them that.

What I don't like about Whole Foods, mainly, is according to the owner, all this comes at a price, which is reflected in their high prices, which in turn attracts mostly the ladder-climbing yuppies. Regular folks have a hard time justifying Whole Foods when looking at their paycheck every week, and that is a shame in my book.

[Jason Perlow]

Tonight, in defiance of Whole Foods' decision, we made Lobster Confetti Protest Pasta:

Edited June 20, 2006 by Jason Perlow (log)

[Busboy]

I certainly think it's silly to end loster sales. But I also think it's silly to attack Whole Foods as opportunistic, hypocritical and delusional, or to compare lobsters to fictional aliens is equally silly.

I'm guessing that most of us support humane slaughter, the move away fromfactory farms, non-bound veal and so on, even if we're going to kill and eat the animals, on both humane grounds and the assumption that the food will taste better. That Whole Foods takes this idea seriously enough to encourage, however imperfectly, a movement towards this type of production is to be applauded. If they get carried away every now and then, well, there can certainly be legitimate disagreements. Hurling names and questioning, without the least bit of evidence, the corporation's motives, does little to resolve the debate.

[JohnL]

I certainly think it's silly to end loster sales. But I also think it's silly to attack Whole Foods as opportunistic, hypocritical and delusional, or to compare lobsters to fictional aliens is equally silly. 

I'm guessing that most of us support humane slaughter, the move away fromfactory farms, non-bound veal and so on, even if we're going to kill and eat the animals, on both humane grounds and the assumption that the food will taste better.  That Whole Foods takes this idea seriously enough to encourage, however imperfectly, a movement towards this type of production is to be applauded. If they get carried away every now and then, well, there can certainly be legitimate disagreements.  Hurling names and questioning, without the least bit of evidence, the corporation's motives, does little to resolve the debate.

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If WF believes their completely unsupported (and unsupportable) belief about lobsters then they should simply not sell lobsters!

It is the preachy Whole--ier than thou attitude that rubs me the wrong way and the fact that they are clearly attempting to capitalize on this approach.

That is why many people rightly suspect a bit of marketing hype at play.

[Busboy]

I certainly think it's silly to end loster sales. But I also think it's silly to attack Whole Foods as opportunistic, hypocritical and delusional, or to compare lobsters to fictional aliens is equally silly. 

I'm guessing that most of us support humane slaughter, the move away fromfactory farms, non-bound veal and so on, even if we're going to kill and eat the animals, on both humane grounds and the assumption that the food will taste better.  That Whole Foods takes this idea seriously enough to encourage, however imperfectly, a movement towards this type of production is to be applauded. If they get carried away every now and then, well, there can certainly be legitimate disagreements.  Hurling names and questioning, without the least bit of evidence, the corporation's motives, does little to resolve the debate.

←

If WF believes their completely unsupported (and unsupportable) belief about lobsters then they should simply not sell lobsters!

It is the preachy Whole--ier than thou attitude that rubs me the wrong way and the fact that they are clearly attempting to capitalize on this approach.

That is why many people rightly suspect a bit of marketing hype at play.

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Whole Foods did a seven month study, decided they didn't like what they found, and, apparently issued a press release that gotpicked up by the Associated Press. There's no evidence of any particularly preachy press campaign - beyond the release -- or an attempt to particularly capitalize on this. The said they will continue to sell frozen lobster. They left the door open to re-introducing live lobsters. I'm having trouble getting particularly outraged our findingany evil motives in this.

[ned]

Seems like a real chickenshit move to me. It's not a stance against humane killing or treatment of animals. It's a stance against the exposure of potentially humane killing or treatment of animals to a retail environment. I find this disgusting. Enough already with Americans' disconnection with the reality of the source and story of the food they eat.

Whole Foods shows remarkable integrity in much of what they do. From there, this lobster debacle is a radical and unfortunate departure. If they really feel compelled to take this stance and maintain their integrity they must close both the meat and fish departments altogether.

[Mimi Sheraton]

What it all boils down to really, is that Whole Foods does some things very well and other things quite badly and the very term, "Whole Foods" is obviously designed to have a halo effect over the whole operation over which there is a vaguely disturbing messianic aura.

[Busboy]

Seems like a real chickenshit move to me.  It's not a stance against humane killing or treatment of animals.  It's a stance against the exposure of potentially humane killing or treatment of animals to a retail environment.  I find this disgusting.  Enough already with Americans' disconnection with the reality of the source and story of the food they eat. 

Whole Foods shows remarkable integrity in much of what they do.  From there, this lobster debacle is a radical and unfortunate departure.  If they really feel compelled to take this stance and maintain their integrity they must close both the meat and fish departments altogether.

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Why?

PS, I'd suggest that buying live lobsters is one of the few areas in which Americans are intimately connected to the with the reality of killing animals in order to eat them.

[rancho_gordo]

The outrage here at Whole Foods for being too "pc" might be better served aimed at something like factory farmed pork or chicken, things we eat every day and are getting more and more disgusting.

[Grub]

I simply cannot understand how the CEO of Whole Foods Market could possibly be a vegan. A vegetarian, I guess that might somehow make sense -- that's more of a dietary thing. But a vegan is more of an ethical thing. Right?

Well, I found this:

In this USA Today (10/21/2003) article, he explains his reason for converting from being a "conventional vegetarian" to a vegan: "I came across an argument I could not refuse: Eating animals causes pain and suffering to the animals."

So the dude really IS a vegan. Of course, in this article, (from Grist "Green Issues, Sustainable Living" Magazine,) he describes how he isn't a pure vegan, since he eats the eggs from his own "free-range, organic feed, extremely well-treated from their birth to their eventual death through natural causes"-chickens. Fair enough, I guess -- it's nice to see people not getting all fundemental for a change.

But how can anyone sell dead animals for people to eat, while simultaenously claiming that eating animals causes pain and suffering to animals? That's just simply illogical.

Here's another snippet from the last article: "Sure, I wish Whole Foods didn't sell animal products, but the fact of the matter is that the population of vegetarians in America is like 5 percent, and vegans are like 25 or 30 percent of the vegetarians. So if we were to become a vegan store, we'd go out of business, we'd cease to exist. And that wouldn't be good for the animals, for our customers, our employees, our stockholders, or anybody else. If I were to take Whole Foods in this direction I would be removed as CEO." So I guess this falls into the "as far as possible and practical" disclaimer of Wikipedia's definition of veganism: "Veganism is a philosophy and lifestyle that seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment."

Ie., to avoid exploitation of animals for food, unless doing so affects the bottom line. I would have said "our employees" too -- but since he equates unions with having herpes, I suspect he's somewhat less concerned with his employees than the lobsters -- let alone the stockholders.

Bah, I say. Bah fucking humbug.

[JohnL]

Grub--

You hit the nail on the head (I am sure someone somewhere will protest that nails are subject to pain and suffering).

Hypocrisy is rampant here.

I am not adverse to anyone being a vegan or whatever they want to be. I am really tiring of people (and corporations) heralding their altruism and going as far as to use their causes and lifestyle choices for marketing purposes.

However, as grub points out--the convoluted thinking (and I use this term liberally) behind the beliefs of many of these folks leads them into the realm of hypocrisy.

The truth is, many of the issues that WF and others are involved in are complex. For eg a recent piece in Slate notes that WF touts that one should "buy organic" because it "saves energy"--this noble sounding idea is false! It just ain't that simple.

The real danger in WF and other like operations is that by becoming so large, WF is exerting influence over a wide swath of society. This is fair enough. It is When their mission goes beyond offering quality and value then there is a serious problem. I don't agree with their views on animal rights. While I respect their right to hold these views (as noted they have trouble practicing what they preach)--I do not want them to have undue influence (beyond the ballot box) over my life and my choices.

If I want to enjoy lobsters (or fois gras) I do not want the fact that they have driven out fish markets and other competition to limit my ability to enjoy such items.

Whole Foods is a publicly held and traded company--one reason they have been "gobbling up" other companies at a rapid pace (Bread and Circus for eg). They are also open to close scrutiny by the press and the public.

In the end--retailers who sell good quality at fair prices should flourish. Consumers should be concerned with this first and foremost.

WF should just shut up and sell good stuff at reasonable prices.

[phaelon56]

I think it's a brilliant marketing move. I don't applaud or support it nor do I condemn it (actually could care less because they don't have a store in my area and are highly uinlikely to open one).

They pick one teeny little niche of their operation that undoubtedly produces a lower per square foot annual profit than any other item they sell.... choose to replace it with frozen lobster..... get scads of free publicity about how ethical and humane they are and how they are so "different" from conventional grocery store chains... and most likely pick up two new customers for every one that they lose.

Or at worst - even if they don't show any net gain in customers they have improved profits by dumping live lobsters for frozen.

If by chance you get to the NPR website the audio archive of their WF lobster piece is worth a listen. I find the WF defensive position that their frozen lobsters are killed "quickly and humanely" by a high pressure system a bit laughable. But more interesting is the interview with a lobster fisherman who talks about what life is really like for a lobster in the trap (the short version is that life in a supermarket tank is a real picnic compared to being in the trap).

[JohnL]

I think it's a brilliant marketing move. I don't applaud or support it nor do I condemn it (actually could care less because they don't have a store in my area and are highly uinlikely to open one).

They pick one teeny little niche of their operation that undoubtedly produces a lower per square foot annual profit than any other item they sell....  choose to replace it with frozen lobster.....  get scads of free publicity about how ethical and humane they are and how they are so "different" from conventional grocery store chains...  and most likely pick up two new customers for every one that they lose.

Or at worst - even if they don't show any net gain in customers they have improved profits by dumping live lobsters for frozen.  

If by chance  you get to the NPR website  the audio archive of their WF lobster piece is worth a listen.   I find the WF defensive position that their frozen lobsters are killed "quickly and humanely" by a high pressure system a bit laughable. But more interesting is the interview with a lobster fisherman who talks about what life is really like for a lobster in the trap  (the short version is that life in a supermarket tank is a real picnic compared to being in the trap).

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Forget about the "trap."

A lobster spends its entire life avoiding being eaten by predators (not just man either).

The sheer idiocy of talking about a lobster's "quality of life" by WF and others is itself a trap (in logic).

If a lobster's quality of life is a concern--then trapping and quickly killing it is a good thing for the lobster.

Just think of living in constant fear of being violently killed and eaten by a squid or a cod or an octopus or a seal. You call that "living!!??"

Let's not forget those cute seals and loveable cod fish and cuddly octopuses and how they are also --just like man--concerned with killing their lobsters "humanely."

By the way --how about those clams, snails, mussels and flounders who are eaten by lobsters.

I suppose the lobsters "care" about killing them "humanely."

This is sheer idiocy!!!!

Edited June 21, 2006 by JohnL (log)

[johnnyd]

The locals weigh in on the topic:

The fact that live lobsters are destined to be shoved head first into a pot of boiling water didn’t seem to enter into the tender-hearted food chain’s decision to cease and desist. Apparently, Whole Foods Market is okay with killing and eating animals as long as you’re nice to them before you do so.

Being a native Mainer, my first reaction to the news, of course, was “the health and well-being of lobsters?!” This spasm of incredulity was followed instantly by “What kind of clueless, pony-tailed yupster goes to a Whole Foods Market to buy lobsters?!”

<snip>

hey, if you fall overboard and drown, you’d better believe a lobster will have no compunction at all about eating you. 

The Forecaster - Southern Maine Edition - 6/23/06 The article goes on to detail the partnership with Clearwater Seafoods - the same bunch that's locked out over 100 workers up in Glace Bay because they won't take an 18% cut in pay.

[Grub]

The article goes on to detail the partnership with Clearwater Seafoods - the same bunch that's locked out over 100 workers up in Glace Bay because they won't take an 18% cut in pay.

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Well at least the guy is consistent... He did insist that there was no reason for his workers to unionize, because his workers are treated so well. I'm not sure if that's consistent with his egg-eating, chicken-keeping veganism, but it does sound an awful lot like "I don't need no health-inspectors, because I'm so clean..."

[daisy17]

This, by Frank Bruni, in today's Week in Review section of the Times:

It Died For Us

[JohnL]

This, by Frank Bruni, in today's Week in Review section of the Times:

It Died For Us

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Bravo Bruni!

This is a nicely written and well thought out and thought provoking piece.

My problem is that many of the people taking a position should be using reasoned and rational argument for their point of view.

What I find problematic is many have become crusaders with a religious fervor--it is their view or no view. They often resort to subversive campaigns and twist facts and generally misrepresent themselves.

I appreciate the references to unions etc but this is a side issue. I am certainly willing to consider any argument made by labor union advocates--I do think this is an area for some other forum.

I am very wary of anyone putting animals--from mollusks to bunny rabbits on equal footing with human beings. Respect and humane treatment are very good things but some perspective that makes sense and has some scientific support is needed.

I do have a lot of faith that in the end people-- consumers will make good decisions.

Edited June 26, 2006 by JohnL (log)

[barritz]

I simply cannot understand how the CEO of Whole Foods Market could possibly be a vegan. A vegetarian, I guess that might somehow make sense -- that's more of a dietary thing. But a vegan is more of an ethical thing. Right?

Well, I found this:

In this USA Today (10/21/2003) article, he explains his reason for converting from being a "conventional vegetarian"  to a vegan: "I came across an argument I could not refuse: Eating animals causes pain and suffering to the animals."

So the dude really IS a vegan. Of course, in this article, (from Grist "Green Issues, Sustainable Living" Magazine,) he describes how he isn't a pure vegan, since he eats the eggs from his own "free-range, organic feed, extremely well-treated from their birth to their eventual death through natural causes"-chickens. Fair enough, I guess -- it's nice to see people not getting all fundemental for a change.

But how can anyone sell dead animals for people to eat, while simultaenously claiming that eating animals causes pain and suffering to animals? That's just simply illogical.

Here's another snippet from the last article: "Sure, I wish Whole Foods didn't sell animal products, but the fact of the matter is that the population of vegetarians in America is like 5 percent, and vegans are like 25 or 30 percent of the vegetarians. So if we were to become a vegan store, we'd go out of business, we'd cease to exist. And that wouldn't be good for the animals, for our customers, our employees, our stockholders, or anybody else. If I were to take Whole Foods in this direction I would be removed as CEO." So I guess this falls into the "as far as possible and practical" disclaimer of Wikipedia's definition of veganism: "Veganism is a philosophy and lifestyle that seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment."

Ie., to avoid exploitation of animals for food, unless doing so affects the bottom line. I would have said "our employees" too -- but since he equates unions with having herpes, I suspect he's somewhat less concerned with his employees than the lobsters -- let alone the stockholders.

Bah, I say. Bah fucking humbug.

←

My favorite thing about Whole Foods is that since June 2004, it has not sold eggs from hens kept in cages, and that in 2005 it also eliminated such eggs from its kitchens and bakeries and from those it commissions to make baked or prepared foods.

But to address Grub's points...

Mackey's argument is that, instead of committing business suicide by making the entire chain vegan, Mackey "decided to educate Whole Foods' suppliers to produce their animal products in a more compassionate way, and to persuade its customers to make more compassionate choices." Whole Foods worked with organizations, like the Humane Society of the United States, to develop new standards a wide range of animals, such as ducks, cattle, pigs, sheep, etc... They're currently in the process of certifying that their suppliers meet the new standards. Then they'll slap on a nifty "Animal Compassion" logos onto the food. That process should be complete by 2008.

Mackey is a libertarian and is philosophically opposed to unions. But why does being opposed to unions equal not being concerned with employees? For eight consecutive years, Whole Foods has been listed by Fortune magazine among the best 100 companies to work for. In 2005, it ranked 30. It's currently ranking 15...

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bes...nies/full_list/

Edit: I just want to add this link to Whole Foods' "Farm Animal and Meat Quality Standards".

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/m...ystandards.html

Edited July 26, 2006 by barritz (log)

[johnnyd]

Bumpity...

Portland Maine Whole Foods to sell Lobsters - Portland Press Herald 2/8/07 (available for a limited time)

Despite the fact that their lobsters are caught off Vinalhaven, ME their lobster supplier is based in New Hampshire! Locals are furious.

The decision means the store along Franklin Arterial will be unique among the chain's 190-plus locations when it opens next week with live lobsters in its inventory. Whole Foods dropped lobsters in June because of concerns about animal rights. Lobster groups were fine with the ban until the company announced that it will change its rules for Portland after finding a New Hampshire company with a more compassionate way to bring lobsters to retailers.

"The suggestion is, they know how to do it better," said Kristen Millar, executive director of the Maine Lobster Promotion Council.

The advocacy group fired off an angry press release Wednesday, calling the chain's decision a "flip-flop" and its contract with Little Bay Lobster Group, based in New Hampshire, an insult to Maine lobstermen.

Whole Foods and Little Bay, which runs a lobstering operation in Vinalhaven that will supply the Portland store, said the council's response was exaggerated and misleading.

"We're not saying anybody's bad, or wrong. We're saying this meets the standards we have," said David Lannon, regional president.

Whole Foods signed a contract with Little Bay to receive live lobsters from its operation in Vinalhaven. The fishermen who supply Little Bay and Whole Foods arrange their lobsters vertically, claws up and tails down, in plastic cubbyholes that don't allow the lobsters to crawl on one another, officials from both companies said.

The critters will remain isolated in small plastic slots at the Portland store until they are purchased, at which point they will be electrocuted for people who want their lobster cooked in the store. Customers who leave with live lobsters will be given a card outlining a humane preparation method, they said.

Colleagues, I beg your opinion

And just for fun, check out this Lobster Holding System...

[JohnL]

The critters will remain isolated in small plastic slots at the Portland store until they are purchased, at which point they will be electrocuted for people who want their lobster cooked in the store. Customers who leave with live lobsters will be given a card outlining a humane preparation method, they said.

[johnnyd]

Local opinion is heating up!

The following is from a letter by Claus Crustacean, better known in these pa-ahts as "Crusty the Lobster" to WF:

You might remember I wrote to you last summer from the bottom of the Gulf of Maine to tell you you're ... how do I put this tactfully ...as nutty as your 187 varieties of granola.

You'd announced back then that you were no longer going to sell us live from the tank because it violated your humanitarian standards. Instead, you were going to blast us with 87,000-pounds-per-square-inch of cold water, strip the meat right off our shells, and sell us frozen in plastic bags.

Now I hear through the kelpvine that you've changed your minds ­ you're going to sell live lobsters after all! But only in Portland because it already has all those bibs and melted butter.

They tell me you found this dealer, Little Bay Lobster Group, that will keep us in our own little "habitats" from the moment we leave the trap to the moment we go into your customers' reusable "Save the Whales" shopping bags.

(Shut up, you guys!)

Sorry, my buddies are all cracking up over that Save the Whales campaign ­ they're wondering where they can get a Moby Dick costume.

The rest of the irreverant letter to Whole Foods from Crusty here.

Edited February 8, 2007 by johnnyd (log)

[gariotin]

No native Portlander would ever buy lobstah at WF anyway! There are certainly some coops (where you can get 1-claws on the cheap) where people can buy more directly from the lobstermen. I live on the coast south of Boston and everyone know where to go to buy from the guy the boats sell to.

[johnnyd]

TV news item tonight featuring head of the Lobster Promotion Council who says the "Crustaecacuter", or whatever it is WF uses to electrocute lobsters in-store (by request of the purchaser obviously) actually means they are buying a dead lobster, known to begin harmful bacteria proliferation under the shell from the moment of death. Basically more local opinion, based on much experience, to counter supposed logic of those "from away". Hey, it's a legitimate sport around here!

Portland Whole Foods opens wednesday, the 14th, right smack in the middle of a raging nor'easter blizzard that is predicted to pound us with a foot or two of snow. So I guess the guys who are going to sell lobsters out of their truck across the street won't set up until the weekend when the roads are clear. I love Mainers!