Peas with Flavor

project · June 14, 2006

Goal here is a vegetable side dish with a lot of good flavor.

Tried to develop a recipe.

Here are the results so far.

Others can benefit from what I did, and I seek comments on

what might help make more progress.

So far the dish does have a lot of flavor with a decently good

balance of flavors. But it could be better.

Broadly the idea is to flavor baby peas with bacon, mushrooms,

onion, garlic, beef stock, and white wine.

In a little more detail, the idea is to fry some bacon, make a

essentially a pan sauce, combine with the peas, and

simmer.

Certainly the work is partly stealing from other ideas

in cooking!

Ingredients

20 ounces frozen baby peas.

E.g, 2 frozen packages of Birds Eye Baby Peas, 10 ounces net

weight per package.

Or try Le Sueur brand, which is a Green Giant brand.

1 pound of favorite US-style sliced bacon.

1 pound (as purchased) medium sized white button mushrooms,

washed, dried, sliced coarsely, maybe just four pieces per

mushroom.

1 C diced yellow globe onion.

3 T minced garlic.

1 can, 10 1/2 ounces net weight, Campbell's Beef Consomme.

1 C dry white wine, e.g., Chardonnay.

medium sized skillet, e.g., 9 1/2" internal diameter measured

at top of skillet.

2 quart heavy pot, e.g., Farberware classic, with

cover.

</blockquote>

Steps

Place bacon in skillet and cook slowly

separating slices.

Cook until nearly all the fat is rendered.

But cook slowly enough not to burn the bacon.

Remove the bacon and drain.

Pour out the fat to suitable container, e.g.,

a stainless steel mixing bowl or a

300 ml Pyrex glass custard dish.

Add the mushroom slices to the skillet

and add enough of the bacon fat to

saute the mushrooms.

For the bacon fat, start with, say,

4 T.

Cook at high enough power level to let the liquid water

released by the cooking mushrooms evaporate.

Cook until mushrooms have given up

nearly all the water they are readily willing to

give and until some browning of the mushrooms

has started.

Result should be some lightly browned well shrunken mushrooms

in some bacon fat with no visible liquid water.

Note that how much shrinking and browning of the mushrooms is

done here is an important part of the flavors in the final

dish.

Also this step will add to the fond on the skillet, and

that fond stands to be a major contributor to the final

flavor.

So far I have used a Teflon skillet, but for better fond

development in future trials will likely use my well seasoned

classic cast iron skillet.

This saute work with the skillet throws off a lot of steam

with bacon fat.

Thus, may want to do this saute outdoors, say, over a propane

burner with maybe 12,000 BTUs/hour.

If do this saute indoors, when done will certainly have to

clean the stove top and may have to mop the floor.

</blockquote>

With the mushrooms still in the skillet, add the diced onions

and saute until onions are soft and any liquid water has

evaporated.

Add more bacon fat if necessary for the saute.

Add the minced garlic, stir, and heat through.

Add the contents of the can of beef consomme (just pour

directly from the can, and do not dilute this condensed

soup with water).

Add the white wine.

Dissolve the fond.

The mushrooms will absorb some of this wine and stock and

start to expand and soften again, which is likely okay.

Reduce until the liquid is a light syrup.

Off heat, add salt and pepper to taste.

Place peas in the 2 quart pot.

Chop the bacon coarsely and add to the peas.

Add the skillet contents to the peas.

Mix.

Do need some liquid water to help cook (i.e., steam) the peas.

If the liquid in the skillet is too thick, then add maybe 1/2

C of water to the skillet, dissolve the syrup stuck to the

skillet, and add the result to the peas.

For well concentrated flavors, want minimal water in the peas.

But with a good covered pot, can cook the peas with remarkably

little water, maybe as little at 2 T.

Bring the contents of the pot to a simmer, cover, and simmer

about 5 minutes.

Mix.

Again add salt and pepper to taste.

Done.

Remarks

There is a lot of flavor, but notice how much in bacon,

mushrooms, onion, wine, and stock get added to that poor

little 20 ounces of peas!

Salt perks up the flavor a lot.

Cannot assume that there will be enough salt in the dish just

from the bacon and stock.

It's easy to get in so much bacon fat, via the saute, that the

final dish gets a mouth feel less good than could want.

So, try to keep down the amount of bacon fat used in the saute.

Actually, I am concluding that for mouth feel in the final dish,

bacon fat is not very desirable.

Chicken fat, duck fat, or (virgin) olive oil might be better.

Might attempt to have nearly the only bacon fat in the dish

that from the bacon itself.

So, might cook the bacon a little less and might use, say,

olive oil when doing the mushroom, onion, and garlic saute.

In the final dish the onion is hardly noticeable at all.

So, might be able to use more onion, say, 1 1/2 C instead of 1

C.

At the end, 1 T of red wine vinegar might help.

So far there are no herbs.

Some herbs might help.

Instead of bacon might use some other meat, e.g., some

sausage or confit.

Comments, reactions, thoughts, ideas?

Shalmanese · June 14, 2006

Some ideas:

Use pancetta rather than bacon, cook the pancetta first, take it out and use the rendered fat to cook the mushrooms. When serving, crumble the pancetta over the top. This way, you can get away with cutting the fat down and have an attractive presentation as well.

Cut the mushrooms finer to get more surface area to brown.

Use shallots rather than onions

Add the white wine before the beef stock and let reduce by 1/2 before adding the stock.

Add salt all through the cooking process rather than just at the end. Salt encourages mushrooms/onions to give off their water.

Maybe squeeze just a touch of lemon juice over before serving.

ludja · June 14, 2006

Good ideas, I might go for a lighter approach as well--using pancetta which is less heavily smoked and a more delicate member of the onion famliy--shallots or spring onions. I'd happily use the bacon and onions with green beans for example.

Saute chopped pancetta in some butter and remove when it is partly rendered but still soft. Saute some shallots or spring onion (finely chopped). Add the peas and either chicken or vegetable stock. and cook. Taste for salt and also add a pinch of sugar. Add the soft pancetta back in. Use enough water/stock to cook the peas but not too much so that the peas at the end are coated with a "sauce" and not swimming in liquid. Add some chopped parsley or mint right at the end.

If it was me, I would likely use water if I did not have homemade chicken or vegetable stock. The stock flavor is particularly important in this application with the delicate peas.

This is also simllar to the approach I would use if I was making risi i bisi. (liquidy risotto-like dish with peas and rice).

Edited June 14, 2006 by ludja (log)

mrbigjas · June 14, 2006

Salt perks up the flavor a lot. Cannot assume that there will be enough salt in the dish just from the bacon and stock.

with a pound of bacon and a whole can of campbell's beef consomme* you're not sure it's salty enough?

* (810 mg sodium per 1/2 cup serving; the cans are 14 oz, right? let's just say 1600 mg for argument's sake, but there's probably more than a cup in a can)

russ parsons · June 14, 2006

or--and this may be heretical--you can prepare the sauce base and then at the last minute toss sugar snap peas in it just until they brighten. unless you've got great peas, sugar snaps have much more flavor.

Chris Amirault · June 14, 2006

Russ's post makes me think about relative levels of sugar in those peas: fresh-picked sweeties versus frozen bland berries.

project · June 14, 2006

Salt perks up the flavor a lot. Cannot assume that there will be enough salt in the dish just from the bacon and stock.
with a pound of bacon and a whole can of campbell's beef consomme* you're not sure it's salty enough?
* (810 mg sodium per 1/2 cup serving; the cans are 14 oz, right? let's just say 1600 mg for argument's sake, but there's probably more than a cup in a can)
←

mrbigjas:

On salt, without adding salt, the flavor was flat.

Just from the taste, the dish clearly needed salt.

So, whatever the reason, the bacon and stock didn't bring in

enough salt.

But you are correct:

We should try to calculate the amount of salt.

For the salt from the stock, can start with the label on the

can.

You are right about the 810 mg:

The label says that one serving has 810 mg of sodium and the

can has about 2.5 servings.

So, the can has about

810*2.5 = 2,025

</blockquote>

mg of sodium.

I will take them at their word and assume that they are

talking about just sodium.

How much table salt is this?

Well, maybe we are supposed to conclude that all this sodium

will be in the form of table salt, sodium chloride, and none

as sodium bicarbonate, etc.

With this assumption, we will be finding the maximum

amount of salt there could have been.

Looking at a standard periodic table of the chemical elements,

the atomic mass of sodium is

22.98977

</blockquote>

and that of chlorine is

35.4527.

</blockquote>

So, table salt (chemical formula NaCl) with

810*2.5 = 2,025

</blockquote>

mg of sodium should weigh

((35.4527 + 22.98977) / 22.98977) * 810*2.5 = 5,148

</blockquote>

mg or about 5.1 grams.

My box of Morton Table Salt says that 1/4 t of their salt

weighs 1.5 g.

So, as table salt, the salt in the stock would be

((1/4)/(1.5))*(1/1000)*((35.4527 + 22.98977) / 22.98977) * 810*2.5 = 0.858

</blockquote>

teaspoons.

From this arithmetic we should take the opportunity to extract

a number of somewhat general usefulness:

One gram (1000 mg) of sodium all as table salt weighs

((35.4527 + 22.98977) / 22.98977) = 2.542

</blockquote>

grams and (in the form of Morton Table Salt) has volume

((1/4)/(1.5))*((35.4527 + 22.98977) / 22.98977) = 0.424

</blockquote>

teaspoons.

For the amount of salt from the bacon, I used Hormel Black

Label Original, and the package says that one serving has 310

mg of sodium and the one pound package has 10 servings (I used

all the 1 pound package).

So, as (Morton) table salt, the maximum volume of the salt

from the bacon was

(10*310/1000)* 0.424 = 1.314

</blockquote>

teaspoons.

So, in total, from both the stock and the bacon, we have at

most

0.858 + 1.314 = 2.172

</blockquote>

teaspoons of (Morton) table salt.

That's not a lot of salt for 22 ounces of peas!

This was good arithmetic to do.

Anna N · June 14, 2006

Don't know a thing about math, probably don't know much about cooking either but I would most definitely deep 6 the canned consomme in favour of almost anything else. It has a distinctive non-food flavour as far as my taste buds go.

mrbigjas · June 14, 2006

So, in total, from both the stock and the bacon, we have at
most
<blockquote>
0.858 + 1.314 = 2.172
</blockquote>
teaspoons of (Morton) table salt.
 
That's not a lot of salt for 22 ounces of peas!
 
This was good arithmetic to do.

you're the best, project.

russ parsons · June 14, 2006

and was there ever a nom that was better earned?

project · June 15, 2006

I'm learning!

eG rocks again!

Why am I using baby peas instead of green beans, snap peas,

etc.?

Well, one of my first encounters with French cooking was some

decades ago at the restaurant the Rive Gauche on the SW corner

of Wisconsin and M Streets in Washington, DC.

At the time it was a good candidate for the best restaurant in

DC.

We went frequently and got good tables, often with less than

one hour notice.

Had a lot of good wine from between Beaune and Dijon.

Well, one of the dishes they served was baby peas fixed up

with bacon, onion, etc.

Maybe it was supposed to be provincial and in the style

of the South of France or some such.

It had a lot of flavor and (would have!) passed the KFC

FLG test!

For sweetness, tenderness, and flavor, I might be happier with

Le Sueur brand.

And, Le Sueur or not, the suggestion just to add some sugar

sounds like a good idea.

Why frozen?

They are more convenient, and I wouldn't have a clue about

where to get good fresh baby peas.

But, ludja and russ parsons are no doubt correct

that moving away from frozen baby peas could give a better

dish, especially in the hands of someone who, unlike me, at

least knows what a snap pea looks like!

I'm trying to learn!

I'm trying; I'm trying!

Shalmanese is convincing:

I really should salt as I go along.

One reason is just to get the salt incorporated; just

sprinkling on at the end and stirring isn't enough.

As I keep eating the dish, I'm concluding this!

I am learning!

And the observation of Shalmanese about salt helping to

draw out the water from the mushrooms and onions is another

good reason.

The salt arithmetic I did above concluded that from the stock

and bacon the dish had at most 2.172 t of (Morton) table salt.

So, maybe 1 T more might be okay.

Then, maybe measure out 1 T at the beginning of the cooking

and during the cooking draw from this 1 T.

Then, get to salt all along and, still, at the end know how

much salt actually did use.

The idea that using beef stock promises to give flavors that

are too dark, strong, or something is well taken.

From a lot of trials, reading some P. Franey instructions over

and over, etc., I actually have learned know how to

make decently good chicken stock.

So, I should make up some good chicken stock and use it

instead of beef stock.

And if the chicken stock has relatively a lot of vegetable

flavor, then the result would be closer to the ludja

suggestion of just vegetable stock.

It is, after all, a vegetable dish!

Actually I did a trial with wine but no stock.

I concluded that stock was needed.

So, in strength of flavor, that was the lower end estimate --

no stock!

Then I grabbed the Campbell's beef consomme.

That was the higher end estimate and too high.

Of course, good eG contributors knew these things without

trying the recipe!

eG rocks!

Okay:

Next estimate cut in the middle and use a good chicken stock,

especially one with a lot of vegetable flavor.

There was one small reason for beef stock:

I have used this vegetable side dish with charcoal broiled

sirloin!

The ludja parsley suggestion sounds good:

Just started an herb garden with flat leaf parsley, thyme,

rosemary, and basil!

I'm surprised at the bacon:

As I remember bacon from years ago (don't eat bacon very

often!), so far the flavor is not very smoky or strong.

Shalmanese and ludja noticed right away that the

flavors I tried are a bit strong (even though the bacon flavor

is weaker than I expected).

Actually in an earlier trial I did use shallots instead of

yellow globe onions.

I find shallots to be terrific in sauces for seafood, in some

cases of vinaigrette, etc.

With the recipe for these baby peas I have so far, even 1 C of

onion is not too much!

So, backing down to shallots would be making a much more

delicately flavored dish!

I concede that the highest quality dish, once perfected, would

likely be based on shallots instead of yellow globe onions.

With so much delicacy, I might have to try to get peas from

some Alice Waters vendor!

My taste buds tell me that most peas have a lot of starch

flavor and that baby peas have much less starch flavor but

still have some.

Then, one objective is to (using a Charlie Trotter word)

cut, e.g., overwhelm, the starch flavor.

Net, these little peas can use a staggering amount of flavor

and ask for more.

Actually, it might even be possible to take all that sauce goo

and bacon and use it with just 10 ounces of peas instead of 20

ounces.

Staggering.

ludja and russ parsons both noticed right away

that the chunky goo from the saute pan ends up making a

sauce that coats the peas.

I'm shocked at how strong the effect of the coating is:

In the final dish as served or the leftovers the next day,

there just isn't much liquid sauce flowing around; essentially

all the sauce goo makes just a coating.

So, actually, that 1/2 C of water also ends of getting

absorbed, into the peas, mushrooms, bacon, sauce goo, or

whatever.

russ parsons is right about the "sauce base": The

chunky goo in skillet is done on the side fully independent of

the peas, e.g., can be finished and ready to use while the

peas are still frozen!

Actually that chunky sauce goo looks a little like a mushroom

sauce for steak!

In the last trial, the goo was even glossy.

In terms of the main ingredient categories in

Gray Kunz and

Peter Kaminsky,

The Elements of Taste,

ISBN 0-316-60874-2,

Little, Brown and Company,

Boston,

2001.

</blockquote>

so far this dish hits hard on salt, (black) pepper, browning,

mushrooms, and wine.

The three categories still missing are sugar, acid, and hot

pepper. The third is likely not appropriate, and right away

eG contributors mentioned the first two.

Sounds like this recipe needs sugar and acid.

Anna N, I have changed my mind about Campbell's many

times.

After my last trials trying to make beef stock, I ended with

more respect for Campbell's.

But, in failing to detect "a distinctive non-food flavour" my

advantage is no talent!

Seeing why I like measurements so much?

I do have to suspect that any good eG contributor could drive

into my driveway, hesitate a second, and say, "Yup. Peas 'n

Campbell's".

For "math", I can't do arithmetic:

I have a little software that does the arithmetic for me.

Further, I didn't even get the arithmetic results right; I

said "22 ounces" when clearly I should have said "20 ounces"!

Such mistakes are most of why I can't do arithmetic.

mrbigjas:

"you're the best, project."

No way!

I do believe that sometimes a little arithmetic can shed some

light.

I was surprised that the bacon and stock didn't give enough

salt, had been afraid that they would give way too much.

But, with the arithmetic, the bacon and stock gave at most

2.172 t of salt, and that helps make things more clear.

The arithmetic can be useful.

Thanks guys!

Terrific responses, easy to recognize the lions by

their paws.

I've been learning!

Others may be learning, too.

As I make progress, I will keep reporting!

Shalmanese · June 15, 2006

BTW: the bacon has 310mg of SODIUM so it has 750mg of SALT per serving or 7.5 grams of salt in a pound which brings the total to 12.5 grams.

I've found as a general rule of thumb, the salt content of a dish should be around 1.5 - 2% by weight. Assuming you end up with 1 kg(2lb) of food in total, you need 15 - 20 grams of salt roughly so just a tad more than what you have.

k43 · June 15, 2006

Great ideas, but frankly, I'd rather taste the peas.

Frozen peas are fresher than anything other than what you just picked in the garden, and certainly MUCH fresher than what's been in the supermarket display bins practically forever.

According to a story in either the NY Times or the LA times about a year ago, premium and store brands are identical, and the best quality comes in plastic bags, not cardboard. Heft a bag to check that the peas are separate. A hard lump means it has thawed and been re-frozen, and is therefore tasteless.

Warm gently, add a tiny bit of chopped fresh basil and an even tinier bit of butter or EVOO. Pure heaven.

kellytree · June 15, 2006

Great ideas, but frankly, I'd rather taste the peas.
Frozen peas are fresher than anything other than what you just picked in the garden, and certainly MUCH fresher than what's been in the supermarket display bins practically forever.
According to a story in either the NY Times or the LA times about a year ago, premium and store brands are identical, and the best quality comes in plastic bags, not cardboard. Heft a bag to check that the peas are separate. A hard lump means it has thawed and been re-frozen, and is therefore tasteless.
Warm gently, add a tiny bit of chopped fresh basil and an even tinier bit of butter or EVOO. Pure heaven.
←

instead of basil I would use just one (just one) leaf of mint - heaven.

russ parsons · June 15, 2006

an old trick that seems to have fallen by the wayside is cooking peas on a bed of lettuce. that really helps bring out the "green" flavor. also, if you insist on using a stock, use the lightest one possible and simmer the pea pods in it for 20 minutes before you use it.

Torrilin · June 17, 2006

This sounds very similar to how I do peas sometimes.

Rather than just using onions, try using onions and garlic or shallots and garlic or onions and shallots. This builds depth of flavor. I personally prefer sage with peas, but this is a matter of taste. I can see the argument for basil or mint as well.

You don't *need* stock to make the dish taste good. You also don't *need* wine. Using both works similarly to using 2 kinds of onions and their relatives, it builds depth of flavor. If you don't have both on hand, you'll need to add more depth through your choice of seasonings. I usually fall back on parmesan cheese, but minced carrots, minced celery, oregano, or a variety of other ingredients could be used to get additional flavor. Keep in mind that if you're doing the dish with wine and no canned stock, you're losing salt, and you'll need to add it as you cook. Also, if you try the dish with homemade stock, be prepared to add salt. Homemade stock can be no salt or minimally salted very easily. If you do the dish with stock and no wine, you'll need to make up the liquid from the wine with water.

Even if you're working with frozen peas, you're far better off leaving the peas unheated until the sauce is ready to reduce. Toss the peas with the sauce and then evaluate. With individually quick frozen peas (the kind usually sold in platic bags in the grocery store), there may be enough residual heat in the sauce to heat the peas to a suitable eating temperature. If there isn't enough heat, simply warm it to an appropriate eating temperature. The peas should be bright green and very warm, but not so hot it will burn your mouth. If you wait until the sauce is already reduced, you'll have weird water balance problems, and the peas will be coated in a flavored sauce but not absorb much of the flavor themselves.

Oh, almost forgot. If you're doing this dish to pair with steak, you don't need beef stock to echo the flavor of the beef. Sometimes contrast may be more effective. Even if you *do* want to echo the beef's flavor, the easy way is to do pan fried steak, then deglaze the pan with a small amount of plain water (or wine or stock) and add that to the peas.

I would not recommend adding sugar or acid until you get the pea cooking technique down. Properly handled frozen peas are already quite sweet, cooked onions can be quite sweet, and many of the obvious additional flavorings will add sweetness or astringency.

Emily

Edited June 17, 2006 by Torrilin (log)

jmcgrath · June 18, 2006

Goal here is a vegetable side dish with a lot of good flavor.
Broadly the idea is to flavor baby peas with bacon, mushrooms,
onion, garlic, beef stock, and white wine.
In a little more detail, the idea is to fry some bacon, make a
essentially a pan sauce, combine with the peas, and
simmer.
Comments, reactions, thoughts, ideas?
←

Baby peas have such a delicate flavor that almost anything you do to them is going to produce negative results. They are already blanched as part of the freezing process so just a brief saute in salted butter to warm them through should be all you need.

I think your flavoring ideas are good, but they will work much better with more assertively flavored vegetables. Brussel sprouts immediately jumps to mind.

Edited to add an example of an assertively flavored vegetable.

Jim

Edited June 18, 2006 by jmcgrath (log)

BarbaraY · June 18, 2006

Great ideas, but frankly, I'd rather taste the peas.
Frozen peas are fresher than anything other than what you just picked in the garden, and certainly MUCH fresher than what's been in the supermarket display bins practically forever.
According to a story in either the NY Times or the LA times about a year ago, premium and store brands are identical, and the best quality comes in plastic bags, not cardboard. Heft a bag to check that the peas are separate. A hard lump means it has thawed and been re-frozen, and is therefore tasteless.
Warm gently, add a tiny bit of chopped fresh basil and an even tinier bit of butter or EVOO. Pure heaven.
←
instead of basil I would use just one (just one) leaf of mint - heaven.
←

I agree. I like the flavor of the peas and frozen is the best we can get until I get my garden back. The mint is a great addition.

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