Question: When PC's try out for jobs...

[K8memphis]

When a PC tries out for a job, and they want him/her to do three plated desserts. How much time on average is allowed for them to get this accomplished? Is there an average?

Any other pointers? Agh, I'm writing a term paper.

Thank you ver ver much.

[xdrixn]

In my experience a time in which the desserts are are served is agreed upon and the pc begins whenever he/she wold like. This allows time for ice creams bases to chill, mousses to set up etc.

[dejaq]

Hey there Kate,

to be honest, I was going to post a thread "how to land the job on the first go around", you beat me to it! Typically an owner/Chef/head whomever will give you about four hours. This gives you enough time to compile a subset of bases, put it together, and make a presentation.There are some places that will ask you for more, chocolates, friands, minis, you name it...The best thing to do is on first contact, (if you have the ability to walk thru the kitchen)scope out and take "mental snapshots" of everything they have on their shelves, go in the freezer, go in the refer walkin, without seeming "snoopy".The House doesn't usually give you the "privlages" of taking an inventory, to me this is a tacktic that puts more stress on you, and I have seen a great many Chefs, come up with a half cocked presentation, in spite of it. Make no mistake, you are under the gun, you have to focus, you are in an Alien environment.

What I recommend is going with an A, B, C type set of plans...

In other words, if you have a couple of these, one of those, two kilos of this you can make (A), if not and you have little bit of this and a little bit of that, go with (B) and so on...

a Proper presentation, is sometimes done on "Off" hours, this is the time when you can rip thru their kitchen and do the Tazmanian Devil bit and really knock them dead...the kitchen is going to become completelty trashed, with multiple bird droppings, multitasked assignments, started EVERYWHERE!!!!!-But you will produce, you will impress, you will prob land the job.

Just be prepared, set up a sample menu of what they are going to be eating, present it on elegant card stock, go one step further, and map out the formulas, all of them with yields, and descriptions.

the "practical" is only as good as "first" impressions, come across confident, but not arrogant or cocky, be relaxed, it might pay just to go thru the simulator a couple of times with some BS no name outfits, you never had intention of working for in the first place, just to get comfy with it, don't be embarassed, more people I have spoken to have done this, again and again. As for me, I don't have time for the nonsense of it, I go in, do my thing, and get the heck out, I have always regarded my services as a "contractor" on lease, similar to an Electrician, you don't own my ass, you never did, you never will, I guess I report to a higher authority....and beleive me he is a royal pain in my you know what, but I love the guy....

Mikey

[alanamoana]

i just had an interesting experience:

at this point in time, i don't think either myself or the owners know what the heck they want. in other words, the owners don't know what they want in a consultant...therefore giving me no direction and myself not knowing if i really want the job.

at any rate, here's what happened...

i approached them, suggesting they needed a consultant as it is obvious they don't want to pay for a pastry chef full time. they asked to schedule a tasting, but didn't give me any guidelines or schedule. i took it upon myself (which was probably dumb) to do everything at home. i came to the restaurant with ice cream base, all dessert components etc for four desserts. i finished everything there. it took about half an hour to present them with all four desserts, but it took longer overall as i had to spin some ice cream, etc.

so, everything came out of my pocket. i tried to stay out of the way of the rest of the kitchen staff and i cleaned up after myself...overall i was in and out within two hours. i left all the extra desserts with the staff...which was appreciated.

i know they liked what i did, i'm just not sure where it stands at this point. as i said, they don't know what they want and i think i just wanted the experience of going out there...like a "cold call" to see what it was like as this was the first time i've had to do something like that.

with regard to the desserts, i made sure to make desserts which i felt "fit" with their restaurant concept, but which showed them something different. i know they don't want to pay their production person/plater very much, so i came up with desserts which would be easy to produce and plate. only about three to four components per plate, decent food cost, . i made suggestions about what i felt would be good for the dessert program and how i was uniquely suited to help them carry out changes, etc.

not sure if this helps...

[maggie]

I would have to disagree with Michael on one point: don't make a mess. We judge candidates, pc or line or whatever, on cleanliness as well as skills, ability to get along with the rest of us, and organization. We usually give candidates 3-4 hours, with a brief menu request, depending on what we think their experience is. Some have to make one plated dessert and produce something from the day's list; others need to make a chocolate dessert and a fruit dessert, sometimes a pre or mignardise. Sometimes they get an ingredient assigned, sometimes they don't. We make the decision based on the phone interview before they come, plus their resume. We ask them ahead of time if they have any ingredient requests, and don't mind if they snoop. If they haven't taken the time to look at our menus on line, I let them peek at the recipe book and the prep sheet for the day. But then again, if they haven't looked at the website, they get points off in my mind, anyway. How can they know what they're applying for, if they don't know what we do?

I was a pastry cook down last summer, and I interviewed for three months, without success. I was so relieved when the missing pastry cook came back! I just have to say: don't talk too much, don't eat while you're interviewing (yes, it happened!), clean as you go, go in with a game plan, stick with what you know, and know what you're interviewing for.

What's the paper for?

[dejaq]

a Proper presentation, is sometimes done on "Off" hours, this is the time when you can rip thru their kitchen and do the Tazmanian Devil bit and really knock them dead...the kitchen is going to become completelty trashed, with multiple bird droppings, multitasked assignments, started EVERYWHERE!!!!!-But you will produce, you will impress, you will prob land the job.

Maggie, as I noted, you can only get away with this if you are on your own, if you are doing this during regular biz hours, of course, you have to work smartly...Putting a presentation together off hours only allows you the option of sprawling out, "cutting loose" but when you are hammering it out at light speed, you may have, and I say this carefully, you may have the ability to generate a product faster than your ability to "clean as you go", that is done after the fact and you have churned out significantly more in a given amount of time, to secure the position, at the very least, you will look like a miracle worker...

Mikey

[K8memphis]

First I want to thank you each for responding, Xdrixn, Mikey, Alana and Maggie, thank you very much.

I can elaborate more in a coupla weeks

[Wendy DeBord]

Seriously, if we want better jobs/situations then we need to collectively work together to make them better. The whole tasting/trial situation that's developed over the past couple years has gotten out of hand. It literally makes no sense and subjecting yourself to one is degrading all of our worth.

No one can be judged by one or even two tasting! People can excell at tastings and be complete idiots in the kitchen.......or one trick ponys...or someone who's recieved help from someone else who's more knowledgable.

Who created them? It's like a bad article on how to choose a caterer printed in some brides magazine. "How to choose a chef based on one or two dishes out of context of a typical busy day. "

So you can slam out a couple desserts for a tasting, but how well do you slam out 150 portions while you juggle a mulitple other things at the same time?

People who don't know anything about baking or how to judge the quality of a pastry chef told us to jump thru a hoop and we do. Instead, you should be asked quality questions and given time to prove yourself. If not, let your history speak for you.....after all what's the point of references? Keep photos of your work. Make employers work to be knowledgable about quality pastry, make them ask good questions that reveal thought and knowledge.

You can't always judge a book by it's cover. You judge a chef by their ability to produce great work day in and day out, year after year.

A tasting might reveal a total idiot, but it also may pass the idiot into your kitchen. It's a lazy hirers way to hire.

[nightscotsman]

Thank you very much for the alternative perspective, Wendy. You make a lot of good points.

[K8memphis]

...and subjecting yourself to one is degrading all of our worth...

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Thank you, Wendy, for your sincere heartfelt reply. Methinks there's some history there.

I see your point. However, I do not find it degrading to everyone to make few dishes. Yes, an idiot could slip through if the powers that be were not careful though. An interview should not just focus on this one area alone like you pointed out. It has to be balanced and include all the aspects you mentioned.

I think staging is worse. Working for free, to me, is degrading. But not sloshing out a coupla desserts or dishes in my opinion. I think staging should include some free meals for now and later and some nice perks like that at the least. A roast beef to take home to Mom or something.Again, just my opinion.

[Mikeb19]

I think staging is worse. Working for free, to me, is degrading. But not sloshing out a coupla desserts or dishes in my opinion. I think staging should include some free meals for now and later and some nice perks like that at the least. A roast beef to take home to Mom or something.Again, just my opinion.

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Just a funny story. A restaurant wanted me to do a stage for them. So I come in at around 3 in the afternoon. I end up preparing a bunch of canapés for a function, school the apprentice that was supposed to be 'showing' me around, plate the function, and then plate every dinner in the fine dining restaurant for the rest of the night. After all that they gave me a staff meal that was a little questionable tasting (but I didn't want to say anything) and guess what, the next day I come up with a brutal case of food poisoning. Wasn't too impressed with that restaurant (and told them so)....

[K8memphis]

I think staging should include some free meals for now and later and some nice perks like that at the least. A roast beef to take home to Mom or something.Again, just my opinion.

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Just a funny story. A restaurant wanted me to do a stage for them. So I come in at around 3 in the afternoon. I end up preparing a bunch of canapés for a function, school the apprentice that was supposed to be 'showing' me around, plate the function, and then plate every dinner in the fine dining restaurant for the rest of the night. After all that they gave me a staff meal that was a little questionable tasting (but I didn't want to say anything) and guess what, the next day I come up with a brutal case of food poisoning. Wasn't too impressed with that restaurant (and told them so)....

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Oh, Dude, that is worse than awful!! It's a funny story now anyway.

So how about they just break down and PAY people to work for them like temporaries get paid in offices for trial runs, filling in for crunch times etc. It's the only honest thing to do, to me anyways.

[chefette]

I think the stage 2-3 day perhaps 1 week (short hours) is OK assuming you are a new entry hire - this gives you a chance to try out in the kitchen, see if you like the people, test the dynamic while giving them the opportunity to check you out.

Most stages are free because they are completely to the benefit of the person doing them, and not so much to the kitchen - at least that is how it should work - trying to get free labor because you can't cover the work and are too cheap to pay the wages is a problem.

Staging should not be used for the hiring process of the Pastry Chef (lead position). In this case, I think that having someone come in and do a tasting is relevant - but ONLY if they are going to give you the freedom as the exec PC to actually change the menu and create your own desserts. If they have a set menu that they will expect you to adhere to then there is no point at all in a tasting.

There is no point in doing a tasting if you are not doing it for anytone of relevance to the establishment's cuisine.

Last time I had to do a tasting, I was invited to the establishment for the weekend - I spent time with the pastry staff (who would be reporting to me), with the chef, and spent off hours prepping an array of items for tasting. They specifically asked for a couple of things, and I made up a few.

The timed thing is sort of silly - like you are trying out for iron chef or taking a quiz. In that situation - I would ask why they selected the time constraint and why not just have you bring in some tasting samples. If they want to see you work in an unfamiliar kitchen - then how is that different from a stage?

[K8memphis]

If they want to see you work in an unfamiliar kitchen - then how is that different from a stage?

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Thank you for your answer.

Chefette, I have not even been to fine dining 101. I am not a pc. I am a pro baker & cake deco person. Umm, the only staging I know of are the ones my chef-boy, hyper boy, have been involved in where he dives in for 10, 12, 15 hours a shift for a day or two wherever he's at.

I thought staging was helping fill their genuine orders for real paying customers.

I thought the try out thing was food prepared to be a display and tasting session to decision makers.

But I am succinctly clueless that's why I asked.

[dejaq]

Terrific responses, especially Wendy, your vantage on it,

on a bit of a different note that was hinted on, there are shysters out there also, these are misfits, they “occasionally advertise” for a PC in a newspaper publication, just to get free labor for a day, this happened to me a few years back and after spending an entire day working alongside this flim flam that could never have afforded me in the first place and never Had any intention of bringing aboard a PC, he says at the end of the day “you seemed lost”…I just looked at him, I looked over at his rag tag dishwasher cross trained cartel assembly , and smiled and said “I am sorry, I believe I have made a mistake”. Just like the guys I just sewed up working for here in Fairfax, (same insignificant wanna be yentas as the clown off of Edsal Road in Alexandria) that also had a problem with constipation every time pay day came around to be certain.

Be aware, “free” day practical gigs are just that, they don’t demonstrate anything really, your experience, education and as was noted, your portfolio should speak for itself.

Michael

[alanamoana]

I thought staging was helping fill their genuine orders for real paying customers.

I thought the try out thing was food prepared to be a display and tasting session to decision makers.

But I am succinctly clueless that's why I asked.

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K8, there is definitely ambiguity in the terminology. A stage and a tryout are close enough to the same thing. The terms are often used interchangeably.

Often though, a "stage" is a person who approaches the restaurant with the intention of working for free in exchange for the experience and possible references. It can range from one day to any length of time the restaurant allows. It can sometimes be looked at like an externship for culinary school, although those, by nature, are usually of a longer duration.

The "tryout" is coming in to work for a day or two, as chefette stated, to get to know the restaurant, the staff, how things work, compatibility and etc. This is usually scheduled after an interview to benefit both sides (the employer and possible future employee).

The "tasting" on the other hand is completely separate and this is what chefette refers to when she talks about finding a replacement PC who will be completely in charge of the pastry department, pastry menu and etc. edited to add: During a tasting, you're usually making food (of your own creation) specifically for the chef and maybe a front of house general manager or owner or something like that.

During the "tryout" and the "stage" the individual can and will prepare food which will be consumed by actual customers. It depends on the level of the restaurant and the skill of the stagiaire(?) as to whether this will actually happen. I've done stages where I was used primarily to plate desserts. I've done other stages where I've done mostly production, not directly involved in producing food that was to be used during that service time.

I think I've been lucky enough that all the "tryouts" I've participated in were only to determine my fitness for a position rather than using me for free labor. It would have to be a pretty slimy establishment for them to do that, and I hope I'd be able to discern that before even approaching them.

Edited June 18, 2006 by alanamoana (log)

[K8memphis]

Thank you, AlanaMoana.

It's a fascinating dynamic. I appreciate you taking the time to explain that. I've been in related fields most of my life but this area is a learning experience for me.

Thanks, Dudette

And wow did you go through it with that one you did. And you bought all the food too??? You are dedicated! Hope you get good pay back from that eventually, the sooner the better too.