Looking for a La Bai Cai recipe

[Ohba]

Could anyone point me in the direction of a good recipe for La Bai Cai? What I've got in mind is the kind of thing I've eaten in restaurants in Shanghai as a common appetizer or side dish. I've never tried making it or even seen a recipe for it, or eaten it outside Shanghai, but I always imagined it would be simple to prepare.

[liuzhou]

Here is a translation of a recipe I tore from a Chinese newspaper some time ago. I've never made it, so this is an untested recipe. Might get you on the right tracks though!

600 grams Cabbage (baicai)

1 tbs sugar

1 tbs lemon juice

1/4 teaspoon salt

1/2 teaspoon dried chilli flakes

10 Sichuan Peppercorns

tiny amount of ginger

Wash cabbage and remove outer leaves; tear into pieces then sprinkle with

salt and leave for 30 minutes. Squeeze out excess moisture.

Heat two tablespoons oil and quick fry Sichuan peppercorns to release flavor.

Remove and set aside. In the same oil, fry chilli flakes until oil turns

red.

Add sugar, lemon juice, peppercorns and ginger. When sugar has dissolved,

add cabbage, stir all ingredients together and take off the heat. Leave

for 30 minutes before eating.

[muichoi]

Are you sure about the lemon juice?

[jo-mel]

All of the ones I've used have used vinegar, usually in equal amounts to the sugar, but I guess any acid is fine. I like a little more ginger, myself.

[liuzhou]

Are you sure about the lemon juice?

As I pointed out, I'm not sure of anything. I merely translated a recipe I found. I guess vinegar may do just as well.

Edited May 19, 2006 by liuzhou (log)

[msphoebe]

I've been searching for information on "bai cai" and am confused. Is the "bai cai" dish you are looking for made with what we often call "bok choy" or is it made with cabbage?

I've found lots of recipes (internet search) for "Hot and Sour Cabbage" and a few for "Hot and Sour Bok Choy". Including one in a cookbook I own, Nina Simonds' "A Spoonful of Ginger."

Thanks to anyone for clarification.

[hzrt8w]

I've been searching for information on "bai cai" and am confused.  Is the "bai cai" dish you are looking for made with what we often call "bok choy" or is it made with cabbage?

←

Bai cai is the Mandarin pronounciation of bok choy, which is in Cantonese. So, they are the same thing. The name bok choy stuck I believe it's because it was introduced to the USA by the early Chinese immigrants who were primarily Toisanese (Toisan is within the Cantonese province).

Edited May 20, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[msphoebe]

Thank you for the explanation, ah leung. So, bok choi (as we call it) is the same as cabbage. So the dish could be prepared with Napa cabbage or bok choi?

I've seen variations of both.

I am enjoying learning and appreciate your lessons!

[hzrt8w]

Thank you for the explanation, ah leung.  So, bok choi (as we call it) is the same as cabbage.  So the dish could be prepared with Napa cabbage or bok choi?

←

I am sorry. I think I might have been confused myself.

Bai cai = bok choy (the Cantonese name for the vegetable that has white stalk and green leaves) is only one possibility, from a literal translation point of view. But when I re-read the original post, it doesn't seem that's what was being sought for. Cantonese bok choy is not cabbage. And I have not seen it used in pickles.

Without seeing the Chinese words or pictures, I could not determine what La bai cai is.

And... Napa cabbage is not the same as bok choy.

Edited May 21, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[liuzhou]

辣白菜

I have seen it made from either white cabbage or from 大白菜.

There is a recipe (in Chinese) here. Slightly different to the one I posted above, but in principle, the same. It is really just a variation on the Korean dish Kimchee.

[hzrt8w]

Thank you for the Chinese words and the picture, liuzhou.

As I suspected, there is a little "lost in translation" between Cantonese and other Chinese dialects.

What was shown in the picture is what's generally known as "napa cabbage" in the USA. In Cantonese that is called "Wong Nga Bak" or "Siu Choy".

In Cantonese, bok choy is a different vegetable:

Pictures of bok choy

Pictures of napa cabbage

Napa cabbage is bai cai in other parts of China.

Edited May 21, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[liuzhou]

From the pictures you give, I would say that what you call bok choy is known in Mandarin as xiao baicai (小白菜) and Napa Cabbage is da baicai (大白菜). At least here! The next town may call it something completely different!

Dialects! Who needs them?

[hzrt8w]

From the pictures you give, I would say that what you call bok choy is known in Mandarin as xiao baicai (小白菜) and Napa Cabbage is da baicai (大白菜). At least here! The next town may call it something completely different!

←

Ah! Da (Large) versus Xiao (small). Both are "bai cai" (white vegetable). Interesting!

[hzrt8w]

From the pictures you give, I would say that what you call bok choy is known in Mandarin as xiao baicai (小白菜) and Napa Cabbage is da baicai (大白菜).

←

To add fuel to the confusion... In Cantonese we call Mandarin's "xiao baicai" (小白菜) as da baicai (大白菜). And what Cantonese called "xiao baicai" (小白菜) is the Taiwanese bok choy (青梗菜).

Googled images of 青梗菜

Edited May 21, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[liuzhou]

I now have a headache and will only eat raw meat in future!

[Ohba]

Sorry to be overdue in thanking everyone who chipped in. I was away from the forum for a day or so.

I hope to make it from one of these recipes in the next week. Thanks for the help.

It's so long since I had la bai cai that I don't recall exactly what it was made with, but definitely not Cantonese bok choy. Probably napa cabbage. Although called "la", it wasn't especially hot, and was usually quite sweet.

[msphoebe]

Thanks for the...er...clarification, Ah Leung. Even when I shop in the Asian market nearby and ask the owner for a particular item (I asked for "ya cai" one time and he insisted they were bean sprouts in the refrigerated produce section, yet my cookbook describes "ya cai" as a pickled mustard?)

So unless there is a photo attached I'm never quite sure what to use!

By the way, I am familar with Napa cabbage and have cooked with it many times. Bok Choy is new to me and I'm just learning different ways to use it. Looking at the recipe method above (for pickling), I suppose either could conceivably work, but the Napa cabbage (or white cabbage as in some of the recipes I've found) would be best.

I appreciate everyone's input.

[hzrt8w]

Even when I shop in the Asian market nearby and ask the owner for a particular item (I asked for "ya cai" one time and he insisted they were bean sprouts in the refrigerated produce section, yet my cookbook describes "ya cai" as a pickled mustard?) 

←

Ha ha ha... welcome to the confusing world of different Chinese regional volcabularies. "ya cai" to a Cantonese (though spoken in Mandarin dialect) is bean sprout. "ya cai" to Sichuanese is the Sichuan pickled vegetable, which Cantonese call "zha choy" [Cantonese].

Yes they will give you the same response even if you produce the Chinese words. Unless you can give them a picture...

Bok Choy is new to me and I'm just learning different ways to use it.  Looking at the recipe method above (for pickling), I suppose either could conceivably work, but the Napa cabbage (or white cabbage as in some of the recipes I've found) would be best.

←

I have one pictorial recipe on bok choy:

Bok Choy with Garlic (蒜容白菜)

This recipe is so general that you can use it on most Chinese vegetables.

As for napa cabbage, this recipe:

Hairy Melon Stir-fried with Mung Bean Threads (蝦米粉絲炒毛瓜)

Would work too. Just substitute the hairy melon with napp cabbage (cut 2-inch in length). It tastes really good.

[jo-mel]

OK - My turn!!

There are a couple of recipes for la bai cai in Kutchner/Chang's Ency of Chinese Food and Cooking. They both call for Celery Cabbage which they also call Tientsin bai cai / sheo tsoi. Celery cabbage is that long slender cabbage that looks like a fat stalk of celery. It was the first vegetable I used in Chinese cooking way back when I wasn't near a Chinese store to buy bok choy---- but the regular supermarkets all carried this celery cabbage.

In the Popular guide to Chinese Vegetables - Dahlen/Phillips, they have 'celery cabbage' listed as "Peking Cabbage" and 'wong nga baak / huang ya bai 黃 芽 白

And they have regular round white cabbage as yeh choi / ye cai 椰 菜 I like that cabbage as a pickle, too, but my favorite is mustard cabbage. The flavor of that cabbage carries over to the pickle taste very well.

[hzrt8w]

I think bok choy is the most confusing term not only among Chinese but among caucasians in North America too. I have met one American who kept calling every Chinese green in sight in a restaurant "bok choy".

[sheetz]

I think Westerners are most confused by the different types of Chinese noodles, but that's the subject of another discussion.