Le Creuset v. Staub

[alanamoana]

go to any restaurant kitchen and aside from ducasse or maybe restaurants in france you won't find much cast iron, enameled cookware anywhere being used by the cooks. it just isn't practical. often, the most you'll see is stuff served at the table in the cute little staub cocottes that come in different shapes. they do this at the blt restaurants in nyc.

[slkinsey]

In July Mario Batali will be adding a specialized risotto pot to his cast iron line. I think Mario might know just a little about making risotto ;-)

More to the point, I think, is that Mario Batali knows a little about making money from his cast iron line. Just because he's coming out with an enameled cast iron "risotto pot" doesn't mean he believes it's the best, or even a good material/design for making risotto. What it means is that someone at the company said, "hey, people are into making risotto now. I bet we can make a mint if we add a 'specialized risotto pot' to the Batali line." The fact is that cookware companys are always coming out with pots that are ill-suited to the material/design used. Because they know that they have built up a certain amount of brand loyalty and that their customers will buy the new piece even though it's not the best material/design. Best example: All-Clad stock pots.

. . . I'd never use cast-iron cookware to make risotto. i really prefer something that reacts more quickly to heat, so you can adjust the cooking as you're going along. . .

I'd agree with this in terms of reacting to heat. I used a Le Crueset tonight to fry chicken and I was not at all happy with the temperature control or lack thereof that I was unable to achieve.

Interesting. I assume you were shallow-frying? I ask this because, once you get into deep frying territory, the thermal mass of the cooking oil is so much greater than the thermal mass of the pan that the material/design of the pan won't make much difference with respect to responsiveness.

I have used my LC for risotto, and I thought it was okay, until I used a copper bottom saute pan (and then a copper one, which is even better). But soups can work really well in coated cast iron, depending on the soup. Long cooked ones work well -- the ones that are halfway to stew, for example. Same with curries; it depends on the style of curry.

Yea. Heavy enameled cast iron can be okay for a lot of things. I'm certainly not suggesting that it's terrible for soups. Rather, I'm suggesting that better performance can be had for less money if what you really want is a soup, curry, etc. pot. There's no getting around the fact that enameled cast iron is very expensive. So, IMO, unless you want a pot to do the things at which enameled cast iron really excels, it may be a mistake to buy it. I think it's a not infrequent mistake for people to say, "I want to get a Le Creuset/Staub/whatever" without giving much clear thought to whether they really need one.

I'll probably never buy a Le Creuset pot again, however, because the handles are so bad. It's beyond my comprehension why such a poor design remains so popular and successful -- then again poorly designed cookware has dominated the consumer cookware marked forever. When braising in the oven it's not like you're going to grab the handle with your bare hand anyway, so why bother to use a phenolic resin that breaks so easily? You shouldn't have to replace the handle on a pot every few years. Staub pots have metal handles, as they should.

Yea. I have never understood LC's choice for the lid handle. There's nothing quite like lifting up a 400 degree cast iron lid and having the handle slip off so you drop the lid on your feet.

I should also point out, while I'm at it, that I'm not sure enameled cast iron has such a great advantage over the heavy clad aluminum designs Steven recommends if you're going to be "braising" in the oven. Enameled cast iron really performs at its best on the stovetop, and you're probably just as well off with Steven's recommendation in the oven.

The price of Le Creuset and Staub cookware is scandalous -- you're paying for the brand, not for anything real. Cast iron and enamel are two of the cheapest substances on earth, and the fabrication expenses -- as evidenced by the knockoffs -- can't be all that great. This isn't like mating copper to stainless steel.

Well, there are a few notable differences. As with anything, you're going to find diminishing bang for your buck as you go up the price scale in cookware. Stainless lined heavy copper cookware is no more a value product than a Ferrari. So... there are things that make brands like Le Creuset and Staub better. What immediately comes to mind is that they're substantially heavier (which makes a big difference when you are talking about cookware that is designed around having high thermal capacity and low thermal conductivity) and they also are coated with more coats of higher quality enamel fired to a higher temperature (which means, among other things, that you are less likely to ruin the enamel if you cook the pan dry for a while).

I should also point out that, while it's true that coating cast iron with enamel isn't exactly space age technology, it's not necessarily the case that it's cheap. Every layer has to be sprayed on to the piece, and the piece has to be fired at high temperature, cooled, inspected, re-coated, fired again, etc. This costs money, not only in energy but in labor.

[Pontormo]

A couple of people have mentioned some of the secondary brands of enameled cast iron cookware. I haven't had any direct experience with these. However, I've inspected some of them pretty thoroughly at places like Marshall's. Were I to buy a piece of enameled cast iron cookware, I'd buy one of the knockoffs that's trying to be like Staub. The price of Le Creuset and Staub cookware is scandalous -- you're paying for the brand, not for anything real. Cast iron and enamel are two of the cheapest substances on earth, and the fabrication expenses -- as evidenced by the knockoffs -- can't be all that great. This isn't like mating copper to stainless steel. Chances are you'll get a lifetime of use out of a made-in-China knockoff, and if you don't you can just by a new one in twenty years.

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I fall in JAZ's camp regarding the use of a copper-bottom pot for risotto, one with tall sides.

I purchased a 5-quart Dutch oven for the first time in December at a local store that specializes in wine and imported food, but also sells cheap produce and discounted household items. (The new inventory includes greater variety as well as a few slow-moving items from the regular stock, such as the doll-sized Staubs at half-price.)

It's from a line called Staub Basics (Basic? Basix?) and cost me all of $40. Instead of the distinctive dark stalactites inside the lid, the surface is plain. You can just barely make out "MADE IN FRANCE" beneath the creamy-colored enamel. The nob on the top is cast iron as are the handles; in fact, it resembles a Lodge Dutch oven, if a colorized version.

So far, I have been very pleased. It's perfect for braising, stew, long-simmering sauces and large batches of thick soups. The only drawback I can see is that the enamel seems a bit thin and I notice a few porous marks on the exterior. It may wear more quickly than more expensive Staubs.

[Smithy]

I'll probably never buy a Le Creuset pot again, however, because the handles are so bad. It's beyond my comprehension why such a poor design remains so popular and successful -- then again poorly designed cookware has dominated the consumer cookware marked forever. When braising in the oven it's not like you're going to grab the handle with your bare hand anyway, so why bother to use a phenolic resin that breaks so easily? You shouldn't have to replace the handle on a pot every few years. Staub pots have metal handles, as they should.

Yea. I have never understood LC's choice for the lid handle. There's nothing quite like lifting up a 400 degree cast iron lid and having the handle slip off so you drop the lid on your feet.

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What's especially odd about this to me is that the earlier LC had metal handles. I have 2 French ovens picked up off eBay with cast metal lid handles. They're prettier than the phenolic because of the structural lines, and more practical because of the heat resistance. Does anyone know why they changed?

[dans]

I am looking for a small Cast iron Dutch oven to cook curries, rice and risottos to replace an old farberware pot.  I am looking for a 2 quart and found that Le Creuset and staub make a 2qt.  My question is does the inside matter that much?  Would they both work well for what I am doing? (The staub pot is less than the Le Creuset by $20). 

I seem to like the weight of the staub pot more than the Le Creuset but the light inside of the le creuset seems more practical in cooking and in preventing food from sticking.

Thanks,

Jeff

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Properly seasoned the Staub should be just as good, if not better, than the LC. I use a cast iron skillet all the time but I also use my LC dutch ovens. I love them both but have never tried the Staub dutch oven.

A couple of restaurants near us use the tiny staub ducth ovens to server various foods in (mashed potatoes, mac&cheese, etc.). In these places, I find that there are off-flavors in the food. I've often wonderd what is going on there and about the only thing I can think of is that they are cleaning them so the seasoning is gone and the flavors work thier way int the pot and are released during cooking. It's a turn-off.

Dan

[slkinsey]

A couple of restaurants near us use the tiny staub ducth ovens to server various foods in (mashed potatoes, mac&cheese, etc.). In these places, I find that there are off-flavors in the food. I've often wonderd what is going on there and about the only thing I can think of is that they are cleaning them so the seasoning is gone and the flavors work thier way int the pot and are released during cooking. It's a turn-off.

Dan, the Staub mini-cocottes are made of nonreactive enameled cast iron that doesn't need to be seasoned the way raw cast iron does. There are no flavors working their way into the pot as there would be with, e.g., an unglazed clay tagine. If they have off-flavors in the foods they are serving in their Staub mini-cocottes it's because of something they're doing, not the pots.

[CaliPoutine]

"Other than Janet and myself, I don't know too many people in these boards who have used both with any regularity. "

I do use both too, but I use my LC more often. I have a nomar pot, correct me if I am wrong, but staub used to be called nomar. I bought it for the unbelievable low price of 14 dollars at TJ Maxx a few years ago. Its matte black and I've only made a couple things in it due to the small size. Cleanup is a bear though, so I tend to use the LC more.

[CaliPoutine]

FYI

Le Creuset 3 1/2 -Quart Saucepan on the friday sale at Amazon. $61.80

Le creuset 3 1/2 quart saucepan

[foodie3]

amazon has a pretty good sale on staub.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-1...&Go.x=6&Go.y=10