Wegmans Opens in Northern Virginia

[Rail Paul]

Capri found a Wegmans reference that new stores will be opened in the DC metro. Original post on the NJ board.

Loudon County and Fairfax County come up winners!

Click for Wegmans

[Steve Klc]

Yes, thank you for starting a new thread on this here Paul. You're so lucky to have several Wegmans stores in Central and Southern NJ. At the moment, we have to make due with Whole Foods supermarkets here and most of the eGullet discussions of Wegmans and Whole Foods have taken place on other boards. I wrote this liitle on May 1 2002, in response to Lesley C, who wondered whether she should get excited about Whole Foods opening in her Canadian neck of the woods:

"There is no guarantee whether you should eagerly anticipate it or not.  At the moment I loathe the Whole Foods Markets in my area. However, I've been to other excellent Whole Foods stores around the country--and therein lies some of the rationale behind why I currently dislike my local stores.  I have also been to a Wegmans--which is a superior supermarket on every level to the Whole Foods in my area.  I can't wait for the first Wegmans to open in our Northern Virginia area in 2003 to teach the now complacent Whole Foods a lesson.

The San Francisco Whole Foods store is amazing--there is a greater standard of awareness and expectation in that market--and that store delivers on its promise at all levels in produce, prepared foods, cheese, whatever.  Even in areas that don't depend on the bounty of locally supplied, locally grown produce. As an example, in addition to making their own breads in house--they also stock and sell numerous varieties of locally outsourced artisinal breads--so the customer has an excellent choice.  They have a stone hearth and bake off pizzas to order.  Like others have mentioned, I don't mind paying high prices for superior product--as long as the product is superior.

Unfortunately, I live in the Mid-Atlantic region where Whole Foods has over 20 stores, after buying out Fresh Fields, falling under a regional administrative umbrella yet each store is given the freedom to explore different directions with some autonomy.  That's why "team leaders" at different stores can create a different shopping experience just based on how much they care and how experienced they are.  One store could stock 5 different brands of high end coffee; across the county, with a less knowing clientele, the other Whole Foods store might just carry their house organ--Allegro coffee--which Whole Foods bought out and wholly owns. WF initially pushed their organic, socially-concious un-processed agenda down everyone's throats--to mixed success--and gradually expanded their product line to carry more standard, processed products to meet customer demand alongside the crunchy, progressive, consumer guilt and fear-inducing product lines.  Their baked goods, desserts and pastries always sucked and prepared foods remain underwhelming, and were underwhelming even initially. It seems SOP to hire a local chef as consultant.

But, when Whole Foods moved into our market, they brought with them some very knowledgeable, dedicated teams from corporate, staffed the stores with knowledgeable and motivated people and made a big splash--immediately improving our market options exponentially and forcing our area's dominant supermarkets--Safeway, Giant--to adapt and to improve themselves.  That was good.  For years I shopped, often exclusively, at two of our local WF stores--one in Georgetown (really Glover Park) and one in the Clarendon section of Arlington.  Many product lines were (and remain) excellent--milks and dairy, eggs, butters, waters, canned and bottled goods, healthier meats and free range chickens, in-store sushi bars, a menu of fresh squeezed juices in bulk, fairly priced flowers, etc. You can even buy agar-agar there! The DC store went downhill first--all the original people transitioned to other stores or left disillusioned, a disinterested often surly, poorly trained and motivated new crop of sales and service people were hired and now they go through the motions yet have kept the high prices--much like many of the known chefs in our city.

The Clarendon store was next--long held out to be one of the best stores in the chain--now it is just an expensive, a cash cow in an affluent yuppie neighborhood.  The standards of awareness in the community have evolved and have been raised such that what WF does is not very special anymore--we now have farmer's markets vying for attention--and you can't rely on WF anymore for the best of anything--certainly not prepared foods, not fish, not produce, not bread and not beer and wine.  But we all should be grateful for what Fresh Fields and Whole Foods did for our market years ago.

The main difference at the Mid-Atlantic stores seems to be a conscious decision not to offer locally produced artisinal products from other small vendors--so we're stuck with mediocre bread for instance, baked in their commissary kitchen rather than a selection of breads from local bakers--like Firehook, the Bread Line, etc--which are superior, national class products.  Even Nancy Silverton's bake-off bread that she's shipping nationally is head-and-shoulders better than anything at out local WF. Instead we get Whole Foods pale imitations of figh qaulity breads and pastries at the same price!  Too much mediocre stuff processed through commissaries with too little thought and talent behind them.  In my experience, the sales staffs are clueless now. Occasionally there is a wine/beer buyer who knows what he is talking about, but that's it. Our local stores have now morphed into a kind of a high-priced convenience store that retains enough of that "socially-aware feel good preachy Slow Food veneer" to make certain consumers feel good about shoppiing there and dupe others who don't care.  To give you just a little example that I happen to have some personal involvement with:  years ago when I consulted for Chocolates El Rey I gave a presentation to various team leaders of all the Mid-Atlantic stores at their corporate headquarters on proper chocolate storage--basically how to handle bulk chocolate to extend shelf-life so that it doesn't deteriorate. My biggest take-home message was not to put the chocolate near the cheese cases--that chocolate was capable of absorbing odors and to prove my point, I took a block of Valrhona that I bought at my local Whole Foods store and passed it around to taste--it reeked of blue cheese, needless to say.  To this day in most of my local stores bulk chocolate, rewrapped in flimsy cling film, rests on top of the cheese or right next to the cheese case.

 

If form holds true--in Toronto and Montreal you can expect a big push initially to impress followed by cruise control and pretentiously high prices.  The store chain you really want to expand into your markets is Wegmans."

The best discussion thread on pastry chef Pierre Herme's invaluable relationship with Wegmans--and why DC residents should care--go here:

http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?s=...hl=wegmans&st=0

Let's hope at least one of the soon-to-open VA stores has an Herme boutique so we finally have one worthwhile source of takeaway desserts and pastries. And we can stop shopping at Whole Foods until they rise to the Wegman's challenge.

Here's the link to Wegman's April press release:

http://www.wegmans.com/about/pressRoom/pre...ia_Maryland.asp

[Rail Paul]

Steve -

Thanks for the very literate write-up. We've had a similar experience with Whole Foods in NJ as Wild Oats blew over and collapsed. The Montclair NJ WF store is OK, but not what I'd consider exciting.

As for Pierre Herme, I understand the new store in State College PA has a boutique, so it is certainly possible VA will receive one or more.

Paul

[Steve Klc]

I'd be very interested in your thoughts and observations about what's going on up there Paul, it's interesting to see WF expand in the NY/NJ metro area as Wegmans starts to extend its reach as well. I guess my larger point of the above piece is--for anyone to be in a position to evaluate their own Whole Foods or Wegmans store--to understand just how great or how underwhelming their local store is--they have to see the very high level Whole Foods is capable of achieving elsewhere--as in my SF example--and the truly amazingly high level Wegmans is capable of achieving--as in the Princeton example.

As you intuit, I will be severely disappointed (and vocal) if at least one of the VA stores is not every bit the equal of the Princeton store, which is a supreme achievement on every level of service, selection, design, efficiency and value.

[Rail Paul]

Wegmans has just opened a new store in Nazareth PA, just north of Allentown. Big place, 111,000 square feet. Wood burning oven, etc.

I'm assuming this is close to the prototype they'll use in the two DC area stores when they finally open. The Bridgewater store and the Princeton store have some differences, probably based on experience and a sense of the marketplace.

I plan to get out there to check the place sometime in the next few weeks and report back on my findings...

[Malawry]

I saw the site of the Loudoun County Wegman's! It's where a Wal-Mart used to be in Sterling, VA, very close to Dulles Airport. It's at the intersection of Sully Road (VA-28) and Waxpool Road. Not too far off the toll road. They're working on the foundation right now but there were signs up which made me very happy. Thought you'd like to hear about it too.

[hjshorter]

The DC store went downhill first--all the original people transitioned to other stores or left disillusioned, a disinterested often surly, poorly trained and motivated new crop of sales and service people were hired and now they go through the motions yet have kept the high prices--much like many of the known chefs in our city.

This is really too bad. I shopped at the Glover Park Bread and Circus (which became Whole Foods) before I moved to the 'burbs a few years ago. It had a fine cheese section and knowledgable folks running it, a decent selection of wine, good produce, and bulk herbs that were worth the trip.

I have never heard of Wegmans, but if it pushes WF to clean up their act it will be a good thing. I currently frequent the Rockville and Gaithersburg stores and the need a push. I'm tired of making the trek to Georgetown to Dean & Deluca.

[hjshorter]

I guess my larger point of the above piece is--for anyone to be in a position to evaluate their own Whole Foods or Wegmans store--to understand just how great or how underwhelming their local store is--they have to see the very high level Whole Foods is capable of achieving elsewhere--as in my SF example--

I have noticed a similar difference between our local stores and the original WF that we shop at when in Austin. Perhaps it's because they have Central Market to compete with - but the quality at the Austin WF is a markedly different - bread, cheese, baked goods, prepared food, the works.

[Steve Klc]

That's great news Malawry--at least for us Virginians. I went to the Wegmans website a few weeks ago to see if there was an update on those stores and didn't see anything new. Heather--to whet your appetite--next time you drive north on 95 to NYC or wherever--plan a brief detour to the Princeton Wegmans to see what we're all talking about. I usually do it on the way back--and even pack an insulated bag along if it's warm. One taste through the Herme-consulted pastry boutique in that Wegmans and you'll see why I'm so eager to drive out the toll road to Rt. 28 next Fall for my regular grocery shopping. It will be similar to all of us older Washingtonians who made the trek to the original Marvelous Market store on Conn. Ave way back when when it opened--it was just such a superior experience it dwarfed the scene.

And let's just hope the Sterling store is on par with Princeton.

[bilrus]

Although I am not familiar with Wegmans, this is exciting for someone in Loudon County who is tired of the lack of selection and quality at our local Giant (and Safeway, etc.)

I am curious about a few things. Do they maintain a fairly good selection of 'ethnic' foods (i.e. Asian, Latin)? And how are they on price (in line with other supermarkets or more in the Sutton Place range)?

[Steve Klc]

Fairly good is subjective. The Princeton Wegmans has a very nice selection of "ethnic" ingredients, for lack of a better word. It just can't compete with the great variety of culturally specific markets we have here at our disposal, though--so if you shop at places like El Chapparral on Wilson Blvd. for your panela or cajeta or buy your Asian pears by the flat at that huge Korean/Japanese/Chinese market out Lee Highway/Gallows Road--you will be disappointed by what's offerred at the Princeton Wegmans. It just might be, though, that the stores will reflect the needs and the competition of each location--so the new Wegmans opening up in Woodbridge, NJ--my hometown--perhaps might have a tremendous Indian section since Iselin is nearby. Then again, they might decide that that community won't shop there anyway--I have no idea how those marketing people figure that stuff out. Wegmans just does all the other things so uncommonly well--so well, in fact, that you'll have a hard time going back into your local Whole Foods again.

If the Woodbridge store opens up soon that would be an easy off/easy on for anyone on the Turnpike--exit 11--easier than getting to the Princeton store.

As far as price goes--it's like restaurants--you have to figure out your own price to value to quality ratio. I think that depends on how you shop and what you buy--but I've found Wegmans price-competitive with regular supermarkets except much higher quality, much more depth, much more uniqueness and way better customer service.

[Kim WB]

Remember in A Cook's Tour, when Bourdain writes about recreating his first taste of oyster in France..even returns with his brother in the hopes of reliving that expereince?

Well, I am jealous of all of you that get to experience the Wegman's experience for the first time...it's that good.

I went every day during the first two weeks, even with the crowds..and although every visit is still something I look forward too, it's not the same as the FIRST time!

[Rail Paul]

Wegmans does offer a sense of jaw dropping, awe inspiring, WOW on the first visit. Even after shopping there for a while, you become aware of changes, little things, all designed to enhance the experience.

Pears were displayed, and a small assortment of roquefort cheese was placed alongside. Menu cards near unusual ingredients. Different kinds of pizza at the fresh baked pizza grill. Always a little different from the last visit

[Joe H]

The Wegman's store on Route 28 and Waxpool Road will be 135,000 square feet which is equal to their largest store anywhere. The WalMart has been levelled and the new store (approximately the size of a large Costco) will rise in its place.

I have been in at least 12 larger Wegman's from Erie, PA to Allentown, to Corning, NY to Williamsport to Wilkes Barre, etc. I also have something of an obsession going into grocery stores out of town as well as in other countries including hyperstores such as Carrefours in France.

Wegman's is the best supermarket chain on earth. Period. Perhaps only Larry's Market in Seattle and Byerly's in Minneapolis can begin to compare but they still fall short. And are much smaller.

Having said all this some cautions: Wegman's has an incredibly diverse inventory. Still, if you are going to buy arborio such as what you would find at Sutton Place (i.e. Carneroli, Violane Nano) you will only find "generic" arborio at Wegman's. Not Carneroli nor Violane Nano. The cheese shop is extraordinary. But it will not take the place of dean and DeLuca. Nor will you find eppousse such as you will at Sutton Place and some of the Fresh Fields. Gorgonzola dolce will not be the same brand that Sutton Place carries. Wegman's is inferior.

Their bread is excellent. But it will not make you forget Bread Line or the above mentioned Marvelous Market.

Still, Wegman's carries items not yet introduced to the D. C. area such as Zweigle's red hots and white hots which, arguably, are the best hot dogs in America.

There will be a wood burning oven pizzaria which, for Allentown, is incredible. For D. C. it is merely another wood burning oven. Still, there are no other supermarkets that have this.

There will be a food court with very good food. A real butcher shop. Not on, say, the level of Wagshal's or the old French Market in Georgetown but still a very good bucher shop similar to Fresh Fields.

The real point of all this is that you will have an absolutely enormous store dedicated almost exclusively to groceries, carry out and dine in which will have more things in one place than any other store has ever done in the D. C. area. The overall ambience will be similar to some of the very best Harris Teeter's except twice, perhaps three times the size.

But don't expect Wegman's to take the place of stores that many of us still go out of our way for specialty foods. They'll have a lot. But there will still be a place for others.

[hjshorter]

There will be a food court with very good food.  A real butcher shop.  Not on, say, the level of Wagshal's or the old French Market in Georgetown but still a very good bucher shop similar to Fresh Fields.

That's good to hear. I miss the French Market - when did it close? Whole Foods generally has good meat for everyday, but for special cuts I still make the trip to Sutton place, or Dean & Deluca. The butchers there are generally more knowledgable.

There is a difference between regular stores and stores with a large foreign clientele. I noticed that when comparing the Georgetown Whole Foods and those in the 'burbs. Before we moved out of the city we asked the cheese guy in G'town what to expect from the Rockville store. He somewhat contemptuously dismissed them with the comment that "they move a lot of Cheddar."

[Joe H]

About the suburbs: one of the former owners of the French Market is now a butcher at Sutton Place in McLean. The cheese counter at Fresh Fields in Vienna is superior to the cheese counter of any other Fresh Fields in the D. C. area. Dean and DeLuca is still the best of any however.

[Steve Klc]

Joe--at one point, one of the French Market guys was butcher for the Dean & Deluca in Georgetown--he was completely willing to talk shop, do some special trimming, cutting etc.--do you know if they are one and the same and he has moved on?

I think we agree about Wegmans except for your conclusion: "But don't expect Wegman's to take the place of stores that many of us still go out of our way for specialty foods. They'll have a lot. But there will still be a place for others" I think you might be wrong. I mean, you're not wrong in that certain stores will always have certain special people in place with a passion or knowledge unrivalled elsewhere even within the same chain and as a result you'll find cult Belgian beers here, special cheeses there, special rice there, as you note. But the number of places and the incentives will continue to shrink and Wegmans will take the place of going to these special stores--at least as soon as they open a location just a little closer to the city.

There just won't be as many of these places surviving unless they do a better job locking into distribution and delivery channels--at Wegmans for instance--and keep recruiting and nurturing customers--as more people become comfortable ordering over the net from artisinal sources and as our area continues to get more and more congested we will be making fewer trips for specialty goods. Even for unique or tightly allocated products--as word spreads, so will the availability.

Take your Bread Line example--it's a fantastic lunch place. If I had an office job near GW I'd eat there five times a week. I'd buy his bread every day. But I'm not driving 45 mins there just to get the best bread going--and it is by far the best bread. If I'm in the area, sure. He's got the most interesting food as well for the area and price point and I buy fresh yeast there--nice tip for DC bakers--Mark will sell you a one pound block of fresh compressed yeast right out of the walkin for $2.50. And it's very good yeast. But if you live in Reston and eat at all those chain or imported concept restaurants you ain't driving very far to get Breadline bread. If you live in Arlington you aren't crossing the bridge to buy bread at Breadline. You're more likely to eat Brealine bread at restaurants.

The difference is if we lived in SF and shopped at the Whole Foods SF store--Mark's bread would be featured along with Acme and about 3 or 4 other specialists in addition to their own in-house line. Their audience was aware and they demanded it--and when WF stocked it their customers bought it. Win-win. I've already mentioned how WF-Mid Atlantic seems incapable of thinking like this--their plan is to force you to buy their shitty bread as if no other bread exists and as if you didn't have any better options.

Wegmans does things like open a Kosher kitchen and catering division to serve their customers--in essence, opening up their options; hire a real pastry chef and empower him to use real ingredients with finesse and taste; like sell irradiated beef alongside regular beef--opening up options; they sell (or sold, last time I was in there) like 6 different varieties of salmon including several wild line caught varieties. And on and on and on in ways you never thought possible. On this we agree.

Of the two--Wegmans might be smart enough to feature items from all of these special sources you still seek out if there is demand or awareness within a particular region for these things. You'd think their buyers might be aware that the level of arborio sophistication here just might be a little higher than in Allentown--with D&D and Sutton and WF and several elite Italian restaurants and chefs here? I do. We may have more farmers markets than all those other cities you mentioned as well--I'd expect the Sterling Wegmans to deal more aggresively with this and with the faux-organic mantra provided by WF. In fact, now that you've made me think more about it I'd expect this Wegmans to be even superior to the Princeton store. (Have you tasted the Wegmans full Herme pastry and chocolate line at any of the stores you visited? I can't remember which ones outside of NJ have them.)

And for many who are working harder and longer--do you think you will see fewer people going out of their way? I do. Do you have any doubt the Sterling Wegmans will outsell the Georgetown Pizzeria Paradiso in terms of pies? I don't and I'd never have considered just stopping off for a wood-burned pizza before crossing Key Bridge--but I'll probably buy 50 from Wegmans in the first year if they are any good. I was buying those Vermont frozen flatbreads from Whole Foods because that was the best alternative within a half hour's drive. Now I'll probably buy a fresh one from Wegmans because Whole Foods Mid Atlantic doesn't care enough to offer me this service which is in their other stores outside our region--and is even in places like the NW DC Marvelous Market. From some recent reports the Wegmans pie just might be a better pie than Pizzeria Paradiso anyway!

And I'm sure we'll talk about it when it does open.

[Joe H]

You are right, Steve. They will have an impact. A dramatic impact even in Reston which is 15 minutes away. Harris Teeter, Fresh Fields, Sutton Place, Trader Joe's, a large Giant-all of these are within a couple of miles of each other. They'll also all give up a few points or more to Wegman's when it opens. I don't believe Wegman's will be as diverse as you suggest but I should note that I haven't seen their Princeton store. Wilkes Barre is the largest I have seen which, when it opened, was their largest at 125,000 square feet (I was told that by an assistant manager). Comparing that store to, say, Erie or Williamsport the goods on the shelf really were about the same with some local considerations. The real differences were a larger food court, more features like a cheese counter or a larger one which some of the others did not have. I can see another 10,000 square feet adding a wood fired oven, a few more counters in the food court, a sit down restaurant and so forth.

As much as I look forward to their coming I actually hope that their inventory does leave room for a Sutton Place or Fresh Fields. They may not and while this is good for one stop shopping it could ultimately be painful. Especially judging from all of the Mom and Pop stores, medium size grocery stores, etc. that their enormous category killers/super regional food centers have impacted in other cities. I had forgotten about much of this and now remember Corning, NY and several stores that I drove by which were hurt badly by Wegman's. Other towns and cities, too.

You are right. It will be interesting to see just how diverse their groceries are that they stock on shelves, brands of cheese they carry, etc. While I don't expect to find that which I have to search for now, if they do have them, well, that's both good and bad. Good because they truly are a one stop-for myself and most others. Bad, because they are going to hurt stores even miles away.

Still, despite my ambivalent feelings, I really look forward to their entrance into this market. They will force others to step their own stores up to attempt to hold onto some market share. I fear that this may not be enough. In older stores like Corning and Williamsport Wegman's is still the best that that has come to these towns. They haven't changed over the ten or so years they've been there. Nor do I believe have they dramatically raised their prices in a market where their share is so disproportionately large.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see just what opens in Sterling.

[hjshorter]

As much as I look forward to their coming I actually hope that their inventory does leave room for a Sutton Place or Fresh Fields.

If the stores are that large then there will definitely be room for Sutton Place, and assorted other specialty markets, at least in the close-in suburbs where land is at a premium.

[Joe H]

Excellent comment. Wegman's stores in Rochester and Buffalo, while large, are NOT the enormous ones found in farther out suburban environments or in smaller cities and towns. I suspect that Wegman's will be mostly limited to "outside the beltway," which would be consistent with the sites they have announced they are trying to build in.

[Malawry]

I am curious as to Wegman's wine and beer offerings. I assume they sell these products in most locations, and I wonder if they didn't plan a Montgomery County, MD location partly because of the byzantine liquor laws.

[Risotta]

The Fairfax County Wegman's will be at Monument Drive & Lee Highway/29, on the other side (south) of 66 from the Fair Oaks Mall. Construction has not yet begun. Apparently the company wanted to build a third store in Silver Spring, but the town nixed it.

I happened to be in the Downingtown, PA area yesterday when the new Wegman's opened there. It was my first visit to any Wegman's since 1985, when I visited several in the Rochester area. I remember those stores as being bright and pleasant (I was living in Manhattan at the time, and almost any non-urban supermarket looked good to me then), but otherwise quite ordinary. I wonder when the chain developed serious foodie ambitions.

The Downingtown store had all the things I've read about on this and other eGullet threads -- a woodburning oven, Pierre Herme boutique, tons of good-looking prepared food, ethnic items, kosher food, a respectable selection of cookware and utensils, nice cheese counter, a cafe, etc. It was so jam-packed (it was opening day) that I couldn't maneuver my way to the butcher and fishmonger, and the quality of the meat and fish counters will be the decisive factor for me in deciding whether to schlep thirty minutes to Sterling or Fairfax for routine shopping or whether to make it an occasional event.

[hjshorter]

The Fairfax County Wegman's will be at Monument Drive & Lee Highway/29, on the other side (south) of 66 from the Fair Oaks Mall. Construction has not yet begun. Apparently the company wanted to build a third store in Silver Spring, but the town nixed it.

If it was a downtown spot I wonder if Whole Foods nixed the competition?

Fairfax or Sterling would definitely be an occasional shopping trip for us.

[Malawry]

I'm simply sputtering that they didn't end up going into Silver Spring. Sputtering, I tell you.

On the bright side, I drove by the Sterling location yesterday and there is a foundation plus the big steel framework already in place. It's gonna be a big store, from looking at the framework at least.

[hjshorter]

Bumping this up...

Have they opened yet? Anyone been?