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Cake or Pie? Take your pick


Mayhaw Man
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Well, Mayhaw Man, you did say "well made" in your introductory post, so no going back on making a pie less than what it is.

Pie. I hate it, but pie.

Caramel Cake, Seven Layer Fudge, Sour Cream Pound Cakes, love them all.

But do without a chicken pot pie, a quiche, a peach cobbler, and god forbid, living the rest of my life knowing that I will never taste a spoon full of fresh blackberry cobbler?

Pie.

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I do not understand this discussion.

Cake = sweet thing, various flavourings, with or without icing/frosting/fondant (dont go there); usually eaten in dessert situations.

Pie = 2 layers of pastry with MEAT inbetween. Usually eaten in savoury situations, and at football.

I speak from a position of authority. I am born a Yorkshire lass, so pastry and pies are in my blood. We probably actually invented them,but will never be able to prove it.

Perhaps the expression "as American as apple pie" was coined to proclaim independence from England? Surely now that you live in another colonized land you have developed a keener understanding of such a desire.

As a concession to our shared debt, we do have chicken pot pies, often bought pre-made in individual servings at supermarkets. The larger, family-sized, home-made versions tend to be what might be called a casserole here, concessions made to British roots by sometimes placing a crust on top, whether crimped pastry or what, again, WE refer to as 'biscuit" like, spooned on rough for a savory cobbler. Then there's Shepherd's Pie, a nod to your northern origins, lass. We do that, too.

However, we are muts and while for a long time, suspicious, picky, boring, boring eaters, many of us, we have emerged as generous, greedy paws who takes what we can from the savory, hand-held pies of Eastern Europe and Latin America and not just the stuff that D.H. Lawrence's miners brought down into the sooty earth. We love puffy stuffed Chinese buns and all those other Asian goodies that wrap rice or wheat-flour disks around seafood, vegetables and shredded pork...as is the case in Australia.

As for what you might call puddings :huh: (pudding is usually our version of Bird's instant custard powder in different flavors), we like the Italian crostada as well as the French tart, but the Italy-France business is complicated. Let's just say, there's tremendous multiculturalism in the desserts we now serve, although the earliest ones with fruit might owe most to practical ingenuity. What do you do with all that fruit you canned and turned into jam over the summer? Pie!!!

Of course, there's mincemeat pie, too, as pointed out before, a deep bow to medieval dishes, British or not. Still, put a pumpkin next to a mincemeat pie on the Thanksgiving table, the squash wins every time.

In writing your book, you might check out something that was published recently in our land: Humble Pie (reviews were mixed). About some, if certainly not all the values ascribed to pie: Can She Bake a Cherry Pie?, the title a reference to an American folk song.

"Viciousness in the kitchen.

The potatoes hiss." --Sylvia Plath

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I do not understand this discussion.

Cake = sweet thing, various flavourings, with or without icing/frosting/fondant (dont go there); usually eaten in dessert situations.

Pie = 2 layers of pastry with MEAT inbetween. Usually eaten in savoury situations, and at football.

I speak from a position of authority. I am born a Yorkshire lass, so pastry and pies are in my blood. We probably actually invented them,but will never be able to prove it.

Perhaps the expression "as American as apple pie" was coined to proclaim independence from England? Surely now that you live in another colonized land you have developed a keener understanding of such a desire.

As a concession to our shared debt, we do have chicken pot pies, often bought pre-made in individual servings at supermarkets. The larger, family-sized, home-made versions tend to be what might be called a casserole here, concessions made to British roots by sometimes placing a crust on top, whether crimped pastry or what, again, WE refer to as 'biscuit" like, spooned on rough for a savory cobbler. Then there's Shepherd's Pie, a nod to your northern origins, lass. We do that, too.

However, we are muts and while for a long time, suspicious, picky, boring, boring eaters, many of us, we have emerged as generous, greedy paws who takes what we can from the savory, hand-held pies of Eastern Europe and Latin America and not just the stuff that D.H. Lawrence's miners brought down into the sooty earth. We love puffy stuffed Chinese buns and all those other Asian goodies that wrap rice or wheat-flour disks around seafood, vegetables and shredded pork...as is the case in Australia.

As for what you might call puddings :huh: (pudding is usually our version of Bird's instant custard powder in different flavors), we like the Italian crostada as well as the French tart, but the Italy-France business is complicated. Let's just say, there's tremendous multiculturalism in the desserts we now serve, although the earliest ones with fruit might owe most to practical ingenuity. What do you do with all that fruit you canned and turned into jam over the summer? Pie!!!

Of course, there's mincemeat pie, too, as pointed out before, a deep bow to medieval dishes, British or not. Still, put a pumpkin next to a mincemeat pie on the Thanksgiving table, the squash wins every time.

In writing your book, you might check out something that was published recently in our land: Humble Pie (reviews were mixed). About some, if certainly not all the values ascribed to pie: Can She Bake a Cherry Pie?, the title a reference to an American folk song.

Interesting. I just did that exactly last Thanksgiving, and the mince meat went through the roof.

I still do not care for it personally. Was quite surprised when hubby and the next generation went nuts over it, but had to cook two more, and one whole pumpkin pie (that I normally cook 2 of just to cover the parade) went into the garbage.

For the record, I still don't like mince meat.

For the record, Chicken Pot Pie in my house is a big deal, made from scratch, not frozen in an individualized tin.

Yeah, we are mutts, aren't we?

Take the best, leave the rest.

Anne :biggrin:

Edited: I must add here, that pudding in my mother's house, and my house, consisted of a custard stirred and nursed upon the stove top. I know that puddings on the other side is generally anything sweet.

Mutts we are.

Edited by annecros (log)
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Chapter 1 explains it all really.

Thanks for explaining all of that. Now I get it. Even more reason to take a stand for cake over pie. We don't even have pie here in the States.

Perhaps I should retitle the thread:

Delicious, skillfully made Cake vs. Fruit Goo between layers of poorly made pastry

That should take care of any confusion.

Live by the cake (sword), die by the cake (sword)...or maybe not.

Even though I am a seller of cake...there is no contest, question or discussion but to hands down choose my own ethereal apple pie. Three pounds of apples in that luscious deep shiny ceramic dish, dotted with butter, loaded with tons of spicy Asian cinnamon, a drop or two of lemon. Flaky flaky crust, fitted, fluted & fluffed with fun cut outs of dough, brushed lovingly with milk & sprinkled with sugar. The aroma engulfing the house and swooning the airwaves with olfactory pleasures beyond mere mortal words to describe. Causing our frenzied minds to drool in thoughtless anticipation.

pie pie pie pie pie pie pie pie

We eat it for breakfast on holiday mornings.

pie pie pie pie pie pie pie pie

My husband made me Happle Birthdapple pie. :raz:

pie pie pie pie pie pie pie pie

:laugh: PIE :laugh:

simple simon met a....

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Pie. An absolute, unwaivering vote for pie.

I've been known to mark years with pie: the summer of 1999 was the summer of white peach pies, the summer of 2001 was nectarine and blueberry. But truth be told, custard, peach, even peanut butter, I love them all.

Have your cake and eat it too. I'll take the pie. :biggrin:

Cognito ergo consume - Satchel Pooch, Get Fuzzy

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This topic has reduced me to a sniveling, whimpering blob of schizophrenic fence-hoppyness.

But I read it with admiration, just the same.

Andrea

in Albuquerque

"You can't taste the beauty and energy of the Earth in a Twinkie." - Astrid Alauda

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Food Lovers' Guide to Santa Fe, Albuquerque & Taos: OMG I wrote a book. Woo!

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This topic has reduced me to a sniveling, whimpering blob of schizophrenic fence-hoppyness.

Andrea

in Albuquerque

Andrea, I read once a definition of intelligence as "the ability to hold two absolutely opposing ideas in the mind simultaneously, without self-destructing"

Dont know who said it, but it sounds like you and cake/pie. That must mean you are a super-intelligent eater (and from reading back up the thread there are a few more of you out there).

This is fun - now that I understand that the unqualified "pie" means "sweet pie", I can join in. I am a whimpering blob of schizophrenic fence-hoppyness too - as long as the PIE has 2 crusts (otherwise it is a TART, or something called a pot-pie, which research [mine] may prove is not really, truly a genuine pie at all). Oh - and the pastry must be made with butter alone, or a mixture of butter and lard.

I feel so much better now I have leapt the language barrier.

Happy Feasting

Janet (a.k.a The Old Foodie)

My Blog "The Old Foodie" gives you a short food history story each weekday day, always with a historic recipe, and sometimes a historic menu.

My email address is: theoldfoodie@fastmail.fm

Anything is bearable if you can make a story out of it. N. Scott Momaday

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Even though I am a seller of cake...there is no contest, question or discussion but to hands down choose my own ethereal apple pie.

As Michaleen Oge Flynn said to Feeney when he saw that Feeney was betting against the Squire, "Ooh, ya traitor ya!"

Or perhaps, more accurately, this seems to me kind of like a drug dealer who convinces himself that he is somehow better than his clientele because he, "doesn't use the stuff."

Cake is how you make your living. Pie is not how you make your living. Perhaps you need to sit down on the edge of the river and watch the barges go by while you ponder this important moral conundrum.

Brooks Hamaker, aka "Mayhaw Man"

There's a train everyday, leaving either way...

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I still vote cake, as do Chris and DD. But she, who bakes, decorates, designs, stacks, architects, frosts, ganaches, buttercreams, fills, enrobes and tiers cakes, requested and got a Birthday Banana Pudding.

Three layers in a big clear bowl, with whipped cream all between and lots of bananas, with Nilla wafers marching around the sides like soldiers. And rosettes of whipped cream on top, a candle in the big middle one.

It's an old family thing.

But that burnt sugar cake last weekend :wub::wub:

A piefiend converter, it was.

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Today has been a rather slow day at work, what with people sneaking out all round the country for a very long holiday weekend and I have been wishing that I had done the same. But, no, I have to work on Monday in order to get finished preparing for the three day sales battle that is the Fancy Food Show.

I was feeling kind of sorry for myself, but, miraculously, Uncle Sam (really) just walked into my otherwise lonely and desolate office with one of these babies! A really nice person that I did something for this week sent it to me (nice touch on the Uncle Sam guy) and I couldn't be happier with it. Had I known it would generate a reward this fine, I would have done a better job (just kidding-I did what I was supposed to do quite nicely, thanks).

Happily, I am now still going to be bored, and probably, not long from now, slightly queasy with that "too much cake and icing feeling" but I would just like to confirm, in public, that really good cake is better than pie. This cake, this delicously complex boat anchor of a cake, is really just about the highest form of the bakers art and when it's fresh (as this one is-the bakery is all of 4 blocks from here), it's pretty danged skippy.

I just thought that you would want to know this.

Back to your work now. It's not time to go home yet.

Brooks Hamaker, aka "Mayhaw Man"

There's a train everyday, leaving either way...

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That is a mighty good lookin' surprise, Mayhaw Man. But did you get the half choclate-half lemon, or half chocolate-half caramel? And what's inside that baby?

Edited by Parmhero (log)

"Yo, I want one of those!"

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That is a mighty good lookin' surprise, Mayhaw Man.  But did you get the half choclate-half lemon, or half chocolate-half caramel? And what's inside that baby?

Unlike my colleague, who has posted a fine recipe here for Doberge Cake, I happen to believe that this really is descended directly from the Hungarian dobostorte-and I have lots of evidence to back it up, but it's at home on my desktop computer in my office. I have made this recipe (in fact, I did it while we were on our Hurrication and I had nothing to do but watch the 24 hour disaster channel and cry-it was a cake of great solace and comfort-especially as I knew that both of the Gambino's in Orleans Parish were deep under water while I was baking it) and, though pretty complex, it turned out great and it was enjoyed by all.

Doberge Cakes are rich, rich, layer cakes, basically, and are so moist that they tend to keep for days and days. In fact, this is one of those cakes that benefits from being refrigerated overnight before serving. The cooling part, aside from obviously being a preservative for all of that buttercream, makes the cake more dense to the tooth. I love the things.

And, it was a lemon and chocolate. I had a piece of both and it's likely that before I go home I will cut the all important half and half spot, just to mix things up.

Brooks Hamaker, aka "Mayhaw Man"

There's a train everyday, leaving either way...

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I'm so happy to have this thread and the fondant = looks great but tastes like cr@p thread today as it's a very slow work day. For the record, I had a whipped cream/cream cheese frosting on my wedding cake (pass on the fondant thanks!) and I will take cake over pie ANY day!

JeAnne

Xander: How exactly do you make cereal?

Buffy: Ah. You put the box near the milk. I saw it on the Food Channel.

-BtVS

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I would prefer a very good pie to a very good cake.

However, given the choice between a mediocre pie and a mediocre cake, I would choose cake. Mediocre cake is at least edible. I can't stand the horrible crumbly, gummy crust and brightly colored gelatinous filling that passes for 90% of the pie in the US.

But, I would take a steamed pudding, like this Steamed Persimmon Pudding, over either. I can't wait for persimmon season to roll around, so I can make it again. Its flavor haunts me!

---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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And, it was a lemon and chocolate. I had a piece of both and it's likely that before I go home I will cut the all important half and half spot, just to mix things up.

Pictures, PLEASE!!! Just one. I've made 'em, and it takes a WHILE. And the catty-cornered ones, where the layer is up and down---don't try this at home---it's like trying to cantilever a wet bear. I don't get the little catalog from that chocolate Moose place anymore, and haven't had a look at a Dobosh in YEARS.

C'mon---just a little peek? Or a taste--Uncle Sam optional.

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Even though I am a seller of cake...there is no contest, question or discussion but to hands down choose my own ethereal apple pie.

As Michaleen Oge Flynn said to Feeney when he saw that Feeney was betting against the Squire, "Ooh, ya traitor ya!"

Or perhaps, more accurately, this seems to me kind of like a drug dealer who convinces himself that he is somehow better than his clientele because he, "doesn't use the stuff."

Cake is how you make your living. Pie is not how you make your living. Perhaps you need to sit down on the edge of the river and watch the barges go by while you ponder this important moral conundrum.

Well, you see, we Memphians have been so busy of late, what with heads of state flocking to our fair city to sing Elvis and see Graceland all the way from JAPAN :biggrin: So as I sat high on the bluff, watching the river roll by, I quietly traitorously mused,

pie pie pie.

But I only make it once or twice a year. And cake nowadays attaches permanently (sell you light) due to age and thyroids and similar other dusty reasons.

I do eat much much much more cake than pie. But when the cake maker celebrates, she personally celebrates with pie.

But then, didja see my new website? I did it myself and it's a miracle and it's all about cake. :raz:

Now Koizumi and the King share the same birthday--so I bet he's had a least one Elvis birthday cake. Probably never had a birthdapple pie like other special Memphians. So I'm not sure how to add that in to the cake/pie battle, er fodder, er stats, but, viola.

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Pie - no question. It can be fruity, creamy, or fudgy, with a crisp and flaky crust to contrast the smooth filling. It can have nuts for crunch too. To add to the many textures of pie, the flavor possibilities are nearly limitless.

Cake texture varies, but no to the extent of pie texture. In fact, most cakes have such a homogenous texture that people say "it's cake-like" to describe other foods. I haven't heard anyone say that about pie.

It seems that no matter how moist the cake, you need a good sized drink to wash it down. Not so with pie (with the possible exception of peanut butter pie).

And icing sucks - pretty much all of it. Fake American buttercream (too sweet), real buttercream (too greasy, even IMBC), fondant (nuff said) and for goodness sake why would anyone want to eat something made with Royal Icing or Gum Paste?

Oh, one exception on icing: ganache. I eat it with a spoon, sans cake.

I, like K8Memphis, make cakes for othes (although I do my cake baking as a side job). Perhaps familiarity breeds contempt?

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  • 4 weeks later...

With thanks to 'theoldfoodie' for attempting to validate my fence-sitting problem, I have come up with a way to tip myself off that nasty little barbed-wire fence.

1. Cakes are delicious, exquisite, delicate, complicated, rich, celebratory showpieces. They are pot au feu, or Vietnam's Seven Courses of Beef.

2. Pies are happy-making. Period. They are pho, or perfect sashimi.

Therefore.... in a best vs best contest as well as an "everyday" throwdown, it has to be PIE.

Andrea

http://foodpart.com

"You can't taste the beauty and energy of the Earth in a Twinkie." - Astrid Alauda

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Food Lovers' Guide to Santa Fe, Albuquerque & Taos: OMG I wrote a book. Woo!

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I have already voted, but new evidence has come to the fore. My brother made his first-ever pie at yesterday’s lunch: store-bought crust and fresh local blueberries. I had a piece hot from the oven, and then had another.

At dinner, a friend made a strawberry-blueberry-rhubarb pie. They picked all of the berries locally, and baked it in a cast-iron frying pan. I had two more pieces of glorious pie. Meanwhile, a raspberry-filled chocolate cake made by a local high-end baker sat nearly untouched. I'm sure that the cake was quite good.

Cake cannot compete with pie, the delicious concentrated essence of summer.

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