First visit to England..we could use some tips!

[MarkinHouston]

Greetings, all!

I usually lurk over at the cooking forum, but since we are taking our first trip to England in late August, I hope to gain some insight from the experts here to maximize our time. We will be on a 7-day London tour with three nights before and three nights afterward free to explore elsewhere. My current thoughts are that after arriving at Gatwick early morning, we would rent a car and gad about the Lake District for the pretour days. Afterwards we would spend those three days in the Bath/Cotswolds/Warwick Castle region before returing to the States. So my questions include---Is the Lake District worth 3 days of our time or should we stop off near York for a day or so (I heard that Bath and York are similar so I don't want to overdose on half-timbered buildings.) Where would be a good base to see the Warwick Cathedral to Bath area--are they close enough to visit without changing B&Bs? I live in Texas so driving hundreds of miles is second nature to us, but I know one can't tell from a plain map how quickly travel moves especially on narrow country roads. I am certain to have more questions but do not want to overwhelm anyone from responding to all or part of my inquiry. Thanks.

Mark

[alligande]

Just a quick note, Bath and York are not alike, although both were roman towns. Bath is a magnificent Georgian city, and York is a walled medeivial city, Bath has the roman baths and York the minster. Like all English cities they are full of buildings from diffrent periods. Hope this helps

[Andy Lynes]

Mark, I personally think your itinerary sounds perfect - if I had a couple of weeks free that's what I'd do! I visited the Lake District for the first time recently and I honestly had difficulty keeping my eyes on the narrow, twisting roads because the scenery is just so beautiful. I live near the Sussex Downs which I think is a lovey part of the country but the Lakes just blew me away.

There are a ton of great restaurants, hotels, pubs and food shops up there so you will be spoilt for choice in that respect. The Cotswolds is similarly blessed both by nature and by decent places to eat and stay. Given your relatively limited time, I would definately advise a trip to Bath instead of York - there's just a lot more to see and do there and its a very fine city indeed. It will be packed with tourists, but I'm sure you won't mind that!

I'll post a few specific recommendations when I get a moment, but I'm sure others will chime in before long.

[horton]

I know I am a little biased but may parents have a B&B in a village called Loxley. It's about 10 miles from Warwick and the Cotswolds and 4 miles from Stratford-Upon-Avon. It's a lovely village, no shops but there is a pub. Oh and my mum and dad's breakfasts are worth the stay alone.

Loxley Farm

[Corinna Dunne]

I absolutely agree on the Lake District. I have been a number of times, but always did the rustic walkers' pub type of thing rather than the fine food bit. Both would be wonderful. The countryside is unbelievably dramatic: mysteriously spellbinding in the haze and rain, and breath-takingly spectacular when the sun shines. I think it's one of the most beautiful places in the world.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Corinna Dunne (log)

[MarkinHouston]

I know I am a little biased but may parents have a B&B in a village called Loxley. It's about 10 miles from Warwick and the Cotswolds and 4 miles from Stratford-Upon-Avon. It's a lovely village, no shops but there is a pub. Oh and my mum and dad's breakfasts are worth the stay alone.

Loxley Farm

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They have a nice website, and it appears that Bath is an easy drive. Hmmm, Loxley, didn't Robin Hood become Sir Robin of Loxley after he saved King Richard from the clutches of the nasty Prince John? errol Flynn would know!

"I have been a number of times, but always did the rustic walkers' pub type of thing rather than the fine food bit. Both would be wonderful."

Corinna, I think our visit to the Lake District is more for out of the way scenery rather than seeking fine food. That said, I appreciate good food, so if we happened upon some excellent English cheese, fresh, cold-water fish, or tasty lamb, I wouldn't disparage it for want of bangers and mash. The sausage and charcuterie threads in the Cooking forum hvae me thinking about sausage--can you tell me what is, or isn't, edible as far as English sausage? Thanks.

[BertieWooster]

They have a nice website, and it appears that Bath is an easy drive.  Hmmm, Loxley, didn't Robin Hood become Sir Robin of Loxley after he saved King Richard from the clutches of the nasty Prince John?    errol Flynn would know!

<historical diversion>

FWIW, THAT Loxley (though a later addition to the legend) is outside Sheffield--though the Stratford Loxley has recently claimed the 'original' Robin Hood, in a fit of bandwagon jumping.

</historical diversion>

Corinna, I think our visit to the Lake District is more for out of the way scenery rather than seeking fine food. That said, I appreciate good food, so if we happened upon some excellent English cheese, fresh, cold-water fish, or tasty lamb, I wouldn't disparage it for want of bangers and mash. The sausage and charcuterie threads in the Cooking forum  hvae me thinking about sausage--can you tell me what is, or isn't, edible as far as English sausage? Thanks.

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Suggest getting the Good Pub Guide. Lots of excellent pubs with excellent saussies n mash from locally reared animals about. Though don't miss L'Enclume at Cartmel (you can do lunch) for a real experience of top-notch fine food.

[Mike Hunt]

One word of warning, don't for gods sake stray into Birmingham.

It is a culinary desert and has had the misfortune to have two of it's better restaurants close recently.

Another bigger warning is not to participate in the culinary delight that is the Balti.

I was there recently and would suggest that the Balti Triangle must be some kind of a joke on the local population.

Low grade food served in low grade establishments by low grade people.

Worse still is that the local council promotes the Balti as some sort of positive reason for visiting this dung hole.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Mike Hunt (log)

[kitwilliams]

Perhaps it is touristy, but if you find yourself in Grasmere, follow your nose to the Grasmere Gingerbread shop. More a cookie/biscuit than a cake-type gingerbread, the smell is amazing and there is not much better on a chilly afternoon with a good cup of tea.

My favorite lake in the lake district is Buttermere. Good story about the Maid of Buttermere...Maid of Buttermere and The Fish Hotel

[Corinna Dunne]

Corinna, I think our visit to the Lake District is more for out of the way scenery rather than seeking fine food. That said, I appreciate good food, so if we happened upon some excellent English cheese, fresh, cold-water fish, or tasty lamb, I wouldn't disparage it for want of bangers and mash. The sausage and charcuterie threads in the Cooking forum  hvae me thinking about sausage--can you tell me what is, or isn't, edible as far as English sausage? Thanks.

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As far as the Lake District is concerned, good, gutsy Cumberland sausage is the one that comes to mind. There are possibly others. I also have fond memories of comforting Lancashire hotpot, plenty of beer and muddy boots!

[Kouign Aman]

Sausage rolls

Cream donuts (not creme)

[Alexis]

One word of warning, don't for gods sake stray into Birmingham.

It is a culinary desert and has had the misfortune to have two of it's better restaurants close recently.

Another bigger warning is not to participate in the culinary delight that is the Balti.

I was there recently and would suggest that the Balti Triangle must be some kind of a joke on the local population.

Low grade food served in low grade establishments by low grade people.

Worse still is that the local council promotes the Balti as some sort of positive reason for visiting this dung hole.

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My feeling on many mass-market British curry houses is that Brits like it because they've grown up on it. I love Indian food and I can't stand the slop they serve at a lot of these places. Soggy mixed frozen veg in the samosas, everything cooked with "curry sauce base"... ugh. And you know the Bengalis who own these places are laughing their heads off at us for eating it.

[Gary Marshall]

a good site for plotting journeys is www.viamichelin.com

i went to sharrow bay last week, stuck in a time warp but a wonderful one, good value lunch, great value wine, fantastic setting over looking the lake.

first time i've been to the lakes and i would recommend them.

took about 1 1/2 hrs sharrow bay to york.

there's not a lot of culinary excitement in york but there's plenty to look at if old buildings are your thing.

[JudyB]

Perhaps it is touristy, but if you find yourself in Grasmere, follow your nose to the Grasmere Gingerbread shop.  More a cookie/biscuit than a cake-type gingerbread, the smell is amazing and there is not much better on a chilly afternoon with a good cup of tea.

And if you want a light lunch while you're there you could try the Miller Howe Cafe. For decent pub food another place not too far away is The Drunken Duck near Ambleside.

[Bapi]

a good site for plotting journeys is www.viamichelin.com

i went to sharrow bay last week, stuck in a time warp but a wonderful one, good value lunch, great value wine, fantastic setting over looking the lake.

first time i've been to the lakes and i would recommend them.

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What? My God you really are a parochial Yorkshireman Gary. But you even lived on this side of the border, so I am aghast you have never been.

In any case Mark - you shouldn't miss the opportunity to visit the lakes, they are indeed stunning and sure to leave a lasting impression on you. I too stayed at Sharrow Bay recently (haven't had the time to write that up yet). It's setting is unique, with majestic views over Ullswater, towards the peak of Helvelyn. Quite stunning- and if you do go there- make sure you take the Kirkstone Pass from Lake Windermere to get there. As Gary wrtites, it is a little twee- but the food at Sharrow Bay is very good. Make sure you request the table called Alcove- which is slightly set away from the main dining room- but still has the fabulous view over the lake.

Website- Sharrow Bay

Another possiblityis the Drunken Duck Inn , although I would point out I have never eaten or stayed here, although some good friends are due to soon.

I would aslo reccomend a drive over the Hard Knott and Wrynose pass if time permits- the views back over Langdale are amazing. V brief notes -so please ask if you need more.

The Cotswolds are also well worth a visit too. Villages we particularly liked were Stanton- an archeytpal picture perfect village, as is the charming Lower Slaughter. The latter has two Hotels which are also part of the Von Essen group that owns Sharrow Bay. All are a bit pricey - but very popular with visitors from abroad.

Again a bit rushed and there are better qualified people who may be able to help with with that part of the world- but still happy to help with further info if I can.

Cheers

B

[MarkinHouston]

Thanks for all of this information; it makes our planning more fun to "connect all of the recommendations" and cross-reference with maps, viamichelin, etc. Bapi mentioned some hotels in Lower Slaughter which are " a bit pricey- but very popular with visitors from abroad." We are the type of travelers who would rather immerse ourselves among the locals, so to that end we're more likely to seek out a small bed and brekfast such as suggested by Horton above. I have a question regarding logistics. We will finish our London structured tour on a Friday evening, and our current plans are to go to Bath/Cotswolds area. The Buckingham Palace tour has become inserted into the mix and seems that Saturday morning will be a candidate for some of my travel time. I don't the details in fromt of me, but which would make more sense to those who know such things: take a train fom Victoria Station, for example, to either Bath or Oxford and get a car there, or should we try to hire our car while in London?

[horton]

Hi Mark

The drive from London is simple to Oxford (45 mins) and Warwick (1hr 20mins). Just head up the M40. Trains will also be very easy so it will be entiely up to you as which you prefer but I would think getting a car early doors would be one less worry and save carting around luggage.

You could always stop off at Blenheim Palace in Oxfordshire and Woodstock is a pictureque little town nearby. Athough its not Buckingham Palace, Blenheim is very impressive and set in wonderful grounds.

[Shira]

If you're heading west, I'd spend an afternoon in Oxford. It's chock-a-block with tourists in the summer, but it is (except for Cambridge and, having lived in both, they are somewhat different) rather unique and grand. As for food/accomodation there, the covered market, particularly the italian and wholefood delis, do v. good sandwiches, there is a good cheese stall also. the grand cafe on the high street has a nice, not too stodgy tea, rosies across the street is an old-style tea room. dinner options are a bit more limited, the best tends to be lebanese (al shami is one good option). hotels-wise, the old bank and the parsonage are pricy but classy.

and to laden down your luggage, blackwells bookstore on broad street.

[Corinna Dunne]

We are the type of travelers who would rather immerse ourselves among the locals, so to that end we're more likely to seek out a small bed and brekfast such as suggested by Horton above.

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Alastair Sawday is particularly good for B & B's. I have used his guides in England, Ireland, France and Italy; and stayed in a broad cross section of places, from farmhouses to chateau. Some of the places we stayed at in France also did dinner (some wonderful food). I'm not sure if any of the UK selection does, but it would certainly be worth checking out.

[Mrs Foodie]

If looking for real British accommodation, I would recommend you look at Wolsey Lodges. They are named after Cardinal Wolsey who travelled around the UK staying in smart country houses. They vary a lot but are nice as you stay in someone's home. Some do dinners but are happy enough if you want to go out.

http://www.wolseylodges.com/

[jamiemaw]

In London, I recommend the Firmdale Hotel group. They have a number of charming and quiet properties scattered around the town, some more expensive than others. We've stayed in most of them and have enjoyed their peace and common rooms that feature comfortable furniture and honesty bars, both of which we have cheerfully abused. Another aspect that should not go unconsidered in August: Each property features quietly efficient air-conditioning that removes humidity whilst restoring jet-lagged sanity.

Our favourite restaurant in London (neither budget nor outrageous) remains

Racine, where Henry Harris cooks sturdy French rather better than its progenitors. Just be sure not to walk by the Dodi-'n-Di Memorial in the Harrod's windows on your way to dinner as this can provoke instant dyspepsia.

To launch yourself into the proper mood for exploration of exurban England, read Notes From A Small Island, by Bill Bryson, or Falling Towards England for Capital conturbations; it's by Clive James. AA Gill Is Away is quite amusing as well, although you'll note that Amazon companion-sells it with Suzanne Sommers' "Eat, Cheat and Melt the Fat Away". Perhaps three is company after all.

Please remember that easily the most reliable English restaurant critic is Michael Winner of The Sunday Times. Although some would say his surname is an oxymoron, His word is law and he writes his reviews with the same egalitarian viewpoint and silken prose that described his earlier movie screenplays. According to him, you shouldn't detour to the Chester Crabwall Manor Hotel and Restaurant.

In the northern provinces, we found time to make a triangular tour, hooking York and the Lake Country together with a visit to Durham a worthwhile gambit. Although York Minster garners much publicity (and stages periodic fires to ensure same), we found Durham Cathedral a rather more soulful place. Besides, the Venerable Bede used to call it home, whereas York's only real claim to fame was having a New World village named after it.

Edited April 12, 2006 by jamiemaw (log)

[MarkinHouston]

Thanks for all of the suggestions; I am currently sifting through the options. I noticed that the last weekend in August is associated with a bank holiday, and in a few b&b listing, they noted 3-night minimum stay/higher tariff. We would be staying 3 nights but it will be Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights. Does that coincide with the bank holiday? (Horton, if the bank holiday is indeed the weekend of Aug 26th, I think that is when we want to be in the Cotswolds area, so you might ring up your mum. Thanks)

[Gary Marshall]

Thanks for all of the suggestions; I am currently sifting through the options. I noticed that the last weekend in August is associated with a bank holiday, and in a few b&b listing, they noted 3-night minimum stay/higher tariff. We would be staying 3 nights but it will be Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights. Does that coincide with the bank holiday? (Horton, if the bank holiday is indeed the weekend of Aug 26th, I think that is when we want to be in the Cotswolds area, so you might ring up your mum. Thanks)

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the actual bank holiday is monday 28th. if places are specifying 3 night minimum they'll probably want you to stay fri/sat/sun nights.

[horton]

Hi Mark

I am afraid that they are fully booked on those days and the rest of that weekend. I agree with the Alastair Sawday comment though and I know my parents' place always gets a good write up in there!

[MarkinHouston]

Hi Mark

I am afraid that they are fully booked on those days and the rest of that weekend. I agree with the Alastair Sawday comment though and I know my parents' place always gets a good write up in there!

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Horton, thanks for the unpleasant news It seems that we could be in trouble if the 3-day concept won't work for T-F-S versus the Friday through Sunday parameters. If your parents' place is already reserved, we must become focused rather quickly on securing reservations.