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How to attain the perfect mold closing ?


Desiderio

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Hello still me,I think I need the suggestion of an expert chocolatier here ( so this is the place )

I have been doing chocolates for a bit now , and Iam actually selling some of them in small batches,I dont have problems with filling and other things , my only ( well only :rolleyes: , but for now lets stick to this one)problem is when its time to close nice and smooth my molds .Now I know I have to leave some room and avoid to fill all the way up to the top with the filling , and I have to say I have such hard time doing it , I can refrain myself from over filling ( I am italian everything gotta to be nice and full "mangia mangia! :blink: "), anyway even when i manage to fill them below the line , I still have hard time to have a nice smooth closing on the bottom, its frustrating and actually now everytime I have to use molds I am concerned :shock: .There is any method in particulare I have to follow , the only one I have found of some help is the one on the Callebaut site .

I am going to buy Jean Pierre Wybauw book for my birthday and I cant wait to put my little greedy hands on it :biggrin: , I am also looking foward to attempt one of his classes in november in Chicago , I really need to make this chocolate making a profession because this is what I enjoy and I have put it away for too long now. Any feed back on the matter?

Also I dont own a temper machine , so I was doing the old way , till I discovered 'MYCRYO" , and it saved my life, any of you ever used it and what do you think about it? For who doesnt know what Mycryo is , is a 100% cocoa butter micronized ( I think not sure on the english term ), it a stabilizer and its used mainly in the place of the gelatine , it can be used for frying ,and ofcourse to temper chocolate without making a mess on the counter ( :biggrin: ), I ahve been using it for a couple of months now and I think its very very handy expecially for someone that doesnt have a temper machine and use small amounts of chocolate.

Mycryo is a Cacao Barry product and it can be found in few web site ( in Italy it can only be purchased by professionals it is not selled in stores).I found mine here and at good price ;

http://www.gourmetinternational.com/produc...67fb716abc17fa1

You only need like 10 gr per kilo of chocolate.

Well after this very long post i go and finish my chocolates for the next sunday orders.

Thank you for your help :smile:

Vanessa

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Hello still me,I think I need the suggestion of an expert chocolatier here ( so this is the place )

I have been doing chocolates for a bit now , and Iam actually selling some of them in  small batches,I dont have problems with filling and other things , my only ( well only :rolleyes: , but for now lets stick to this one)problem is when its time to close nice and smooth my molds .Now I know I have to leave some room and avoid to fill all the way up to the top with the filling , and I have to say I have such hard time doing it , I can refrain myself from over filling ( I am italian everything gotta to be nice and full "mangia mangia! :blink: "), anyway even when i manage to fill them below the line , I still have hard time to have a nice smooth closing on the bottom, its frustrating and actually now everytime I have to use molds I am concerned  :shock: .There is any method in particulare I have to follow , the only one I have found of some help is the one on the Callebaut site .

I am going to buy Jean Pierre Wybauw book for my birthday and I cant wait to put my little greedy hands on it  :biggrin: , I am also looking foward to attempt one of his classes in november in Chicago , I really need to make this chocolate making a profession because this is what I enjoy and I have put it away for too long now. Any feed back on the matter?

Also I dont own a temper machine , so I was doing the old way , till I discovered 'MYCRYO" , and it saved my life, any of you ever used it and what do you think about it? For who doesnt know what Mycryo is , is a 100% cocoa butter micronized ( I think not sure on the english term ), it a stabilizer and its used mainly in the place of the gelatine , it can be used for frying ,and ofcourse to temper chocolate without making a mess on the counter ( :biggrin: ), I ahve been using it for a couple of months now and I think its very very handy expecially for someone that doesnt have a temper machine and use small amounts of chocolate.

Mycryo is a Cacao Barry product and it can be found in few web site ( in Italy it can only be purchased by professionals it is not selled in stores).I found mine here and at good price ;

http://www.gourmetinternational.com/produc...67fb716abc17fa1

You only need like 10 gr per kilo of chocolate.

Well after this very long post i go and finish my chocolates for the next sunday orders.

Thank you for your help  :smile:

Vanessa,

I think you have the first thing right, don't overfill the molds. After you fill the molds if there is still a bit of filling poking up, I take a finger dipped in cornstarch and flatten the top of my filling. Then I back off the plates with tempered chocolate that is a bit warmer than what I use to line the molds, so up to as high as 33 for dark, 30 or 31 for milk, 30 for white. I just heat the chocolate with my heat gun until it seems nice and fluid but doesn't go higher than those temperatures, sometimes it is fluid enough at a lower temperature.

I then work quickly, ladling on the chocolate, quick bang on the counter for bubbles, and nice quick scrapes back off with my large metal spatula. I will sometimes then do a second scrape with a 9 inch wide drywall scraper if necessary, though I don't seem to need to do that often.

PM me if you are interested - I have made a DVD on molding and it should be ready for sale in a couple of weeks if the duplicating company can just sort out some little detail that is screwing up the duplication from the master.

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Sometimes I run into that same problem. Technically, I believe your supposed to wait until the filling has crusted a bit before sealing them. If not, when you pour your warm choc. over the filling, it re-melts some of the filling and that gets picked up as you scrape. I find my best solution is to work very quickly and cleanly when I go to seal my bonbons. If I go back and double scrape it (attempting to clean up the mold), I almost always pick up some filling.....so it works best for me to just swipe it once.

Then before I unmold I clean up my mold with the scraper. But no cleaning until the bottoms are sealed and firmly set.

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Thank you so much , I actually tried yesterday , I filled my mold and left them all day while I was at work , when i came back I proceeded to covering and its seems they came out better and I didnt over filled the mold :raz: .

Working fast its the secret I see , well then the only thing I can do its just practice practice practice , maybe buy a better larger scrape/spatula .

I followed the suggestion I found on the forum about letting the truffles get the crus first and I really like the result, I left them all night then covered them ,in Italy I would have hard time doing or just saying that I am doing this , because everybody is soo concerned of spoiling food , wich bring me to another question, how long the chocolates that are made with no preservatives will last?I will suppose if they are well covered around a month?Maybe 2 or 3 weeks ,here where I live is very very dry and even if isnt too good on human its good on chocolates :biggrin: ,.

Thank you so much for all your helpfull answers glad to be here

Vanessa

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Hello still me,I think I need the suggestion of an expert chocolatier here ( so this is the place )

I have been doing chocolates for a bit now , and Iam actually selling some of them in  small batches,I dont have problems with filling and other things , my only ( well only :rolleyes: , but for now lets stick to this one)problem is when its time to close nice and smooth my molds .Now I know I have to leave some room and avoid to fill all the way up to the top with the filling , and I have to say I have such hard time doing it , I can refrain myself from over filling ( I am italian everything gotta to be nice and full "mangia mangia! :blink: "), anyway even when i manage to fill them below the line , I still have hard time to have a nice smooth closing on the bottom, its frustrating and actually now everytime I have to use molds I am concerned  :shock: .There is any method in particulare I have to follow , the only one I have found of some help is the one on the Callebaut site .

Well after this very long post i go and finish my chocolates for the next sunday orders.

Thank you for your help  :smile:

Like everyone else, I sometimes have the filling a bit too high. When that happens, I lay a piece of plastic wrap (film) over the top of the mold and gently smooth out (level) the filling in each cavity. Depending on the filling, I may then decide to chill the mold until the it sets; always allow tray to return to room temperature before removing the wrap or you may get condensation. When you remove the wrap, pull gently at a very sheer angle (i.e. not straight up) so that you don't dislodge the chocolates.

Again, as Wendy said, allow to crust and scrape once.

Hope this helps.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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Thank you so much , I actually tried yesterday , I filled my mold and left them all day while I was at work , when i came back I proceeded to covering and its seems they came out better and I didnt over filled the mold  :raz: .

Working fast its the secret I see , well then the only thing I can do its just practice practice practice , maybe buy a better larger scrape/spatula .

I followed the suggestion I found on the forum about letting the truffles get the crus first and I really like the result, I left them all night then covered them ,in Italy I would have hard time doing or just saying that I am doing this , because everybody is soo concerned of spoiling food , wich bring me to another question, how long the chocolates that are made with no preservatives will last?I will suppose if they are well covered around a month?Maybe 2 or 3 weeks ,here where I live is very very dry and even if isnt too good on human its good on chocolates  :biggrin: ,.

Thank you so much for all your helpfull answers glad to be here

Your chocolates should last about 3 weeks with no preservatives but this depends largely on the amount of water and sugar (a natural preservative) in your filling. The Wybauw book has a lot of good information about "activity of water" and shelf-life.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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Thank you :smile: Definally one scrape have to do it , because everytime i went on to fix the look isnt appealing .

I am definatly looking foward to read Wybauw book.

Thank you again for your time and precius suggestions

Vanessa

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Thank you  :smile: Definally one scrape have to do it , because everytime i went on to fix the look isnt appealing .

I am definatly looking foward to read Wybauw book.

Thank you again for your time and precius suggestions

By the way,

Welcome to eGullet, Vanessa! :biggrin:

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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Thank you  :smile: Definally one scrape have to do it , because everytime i went on to fix the look isnt appealing .

I am definatly looking foward to read Wybauw book.

Thank you again for your time and precius suggestions

By the way,

Welcome to eGullet, Vanessa! :biggrin:

Thank you John very much .I have tryed working on closing my molds and I actually had better results , but I have noticed that if I dont warm the mold surface before closing them its a disaster , because the chocolate solidify pretty fast very fast,the temperature in my hose its around 65 at the moment I am trying to keep it cooler , because it tends to get pretty warm here even in the winter, so I suppose that while you work with chocolate cooler its better only for the conservation right?

So at this point I cant forget to warm the mold before I poure the chocolate for the closing I have notice huge different between two mold I did at the same time but I forgot to warm the second .

By the way John your chocolates are AWesome not only for the colors but for the flavor combinations , I havent try them but I figure that soon I will :raz:

I probably will start some coloring only when I get my basic techinics straight.

I was thinking to order from chef rubber the colored cocoa butter seems the better choice for a beginners. Is that correct?

Thank you again to all of you I keep working it till they come out perfectttttt~!!!

Vanessa

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I too suffer from the "molto pieno" (very full) problem. I usually end up with ganache poking up in one or two cavities and many of my closing attempts have been pretty messy. Thanks for the tips on how to push them back down. I've tried the vibrator table on high, but the stiffer fillings don't respond to that.

I found that for sealing the thinner the chocolate the better. I have much better luck with white chocolate, and I'm thinking I might benifit from adding cocoa butter to my bittersweet to thin it out for closing. Waiting for a crust is also key. I have lost a couple trays to impatience.

I have learned to stop at one scrape, then if it requires it I use a top quality 12" drywall knife I have to scrap off any extra after setting and prior to demolding. If you look, you can tell the bottoms were scraped because they don't have the shine, but its not a big deal. At least not as bad as messing up and loosing a whole tray.

Vanessa, you mentioned a chocolate class in November. Are you signed up for the advanced chocolate class Nov 7-9th at the French Pastry School in Chicago? If so, I'll see you there. I'm trying to get all the basics down before then so I can get the most out of the class. I just started the begining of this year and I figure that I've got quite a few "learning experiences" ahead of me.

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I too suffer from the "molto pieno" (very full) problem.  I usually end up with ganache poking up in one or two cavities and many of my closing attempts have been pretty messy.  Thanks for the tips on how to push them back down.  I've tried the vibrator table on high, but the stiffer fillings don't respond to that.

I found that for sealing the thinner the chocolate the better.  I have much better luck with white chocolate, and I'm thinking I might benifit from adding cocoa butter to my bittersweet to thin it out for closing.  Waiting for a crust is also key.  I have lost a couple trays to impatience.

I have learned to stop at one scrape, then if it requires it I use a top quality 12" drywall knife I have to scrap off any extra after setting and prior to demolding.  If you look, you can tell the bottoms were scraped because they don't have the shine, but its not a big deal.  At least not as bad as messing up and loosing a whole tray.

Vanessa, you mentioned a chocolate class in November.  Are you signed up for the advanced chocolate class Nov 7-9th at the French Pastry School in Chicago?  If so, I'll see you there.  I'm trying to get all the basics down before then so I can get the most out of the class.  I just started the begining of this year and I figure that I've got quite a few "learning experiences" ahead of me.

Hello David, I havent sing up yet , I printed the paper and I am waiting probably after easter I will sign up , I really want to do it, I was acutally thinking to go back in Italy and do a similar class but since Wybauw is here why not?

I dont live close to Chicago , so not many chance to do classes here , so the one in november will be my first one here in the USA . I am looking foward to be there )

Vanessa

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Which brings me to another question, how long the chocolates that are made with no preservatives will last?I will suppose if they are well covered around a month?Maybe 2 or 3 weeks ,here where I live is very very dry and even if isnt too good on human its good on chocolates  :biggrin: ,.

Thank you so much for all your helpfull answers glad to be here

Generally, they should last several weeks. This will vary depending on your recipe.

Pam Williams who is running Ecole Chocolat online chocolatier school is currently in the process of putting together an online class on determining shelf life. Many of the more technical books on food shelf life tend to be so technical they overlook the practical side of simply how to determine shelf life. While I am not a confectioner, I will probably take her course once it is offered simply to get a variety of questions that I have answered.

-Art

Amano Artisan Chocolate

http://www.amanochocolate.com/

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Which brings me to another question, how long the chocolates that are made with no preservatives will last?I will suppose if they are well covered around a month?Maybe 2 or 3 weeks ,here where I live is very very dry and even if isnt too good on human its good on chocolates  :biggrin: ,.

Thank you so much for all your helpfull answers glad to be here

Generally, they should last several weeks. This will vary depending on your recipe.

Pam Williams who is running Ecole Chocolat online chocolatier school is currently in the process of putting together an online class on determining shelf life. Many of the more technical books on food shelf life tend to be so technical they overlook the practical side of simply how to determine shelf life. While I am not a confectioner, I will probably take her course once it is offered simply to get a variety of questions that I have answered.

-Art

I make up a batch of stuff (never use artificial preservatives), taste it once a week or so, when the flavour starts to go off I just mark that in my recipe. I generally like to have people eat my chocolate within a week or two of making it, but some centres I make last months and still taste as great as the day they are made as long as I store them in a sealable container and don't mix them with other chocolates. Just depends on what's in them. I make a tiramisu mouse that has layers and after about 3 weeks it all starts to meld together and I lose the effect I'm after, but I am working on putting a thin layer of bittersweet between the marsala/coffee/cake layer and the mascarpone cream layer that might extend their life.

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I too suffer from the "molto pieno" (very full) problem.  I usually end up with ganache poking up in one or two cavities and many of my closing attempts have been pretty messy.  Thanks for the tips on how to push them back down.  I've tried the vibrator table on high, but the stiffer fillings don't respond to that.

I've found that an eye-dropper works pretty well to extract still liquid ganache from the cavities. You can find medicine droppers for kids at most drug stores - they have a wider opening than a real eye-dropper.

If you're ganache is stiff enough to pipe this method won't work, but perhaps a large meat baster would have the suction to pull out the extra material.

Cheers,

Steve

Steve Smith

Glacier Country

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Does one consider Trimoline to be a preservative? It's just sugar after all, and sugar is a preservative. I suppose when someone asks if there are 'preservatives' in chocolates, they are really asking about unpronouncable chemicals?

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Does one consider Trimoline to be a preservative? It's just sugar after all, and sugar is a preservative. I suppose when someone asks if there are 'preservatives' in chocolates, they are really asking about unpronouncable chemicals?

Good question about trimoline. I use it in my ganache.

Vanessa

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Does one consider Trimoline to be a preservative? It's just sugar after all, and sugar is a preservative. I suppose when someone asks if there are 'preservatives' in chocolates, they are really asking about unpronouncable chemicals?

Trimoline, a natural preservative, is an invert sugar consisting of glucose and fructose.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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Thank you John very much .I have tryed working on closing my molds and I actually had better results , but I have noticed that if I dont warm the mold surface before closing them its a disaster , because the chocolate solidify pretty fast very fast,the temperature in my hose its around 65 at the moment I am trying to keep it cooler , because it tends to get pretty warm here even in the winter, so I suppose that while you work with chocolate cooler its better only for the conservation right?

So at this point I cant forget to warm the mold before I poure the chocolate for the closing I have notice huge different between two mold I did at the same time but I forgot to warm the second .

By the way John your chocolates are AWesome not only for the colors but for the flavor combinations , I havent try them but I figure that soon I will  :raz:

I probably will start some coloring only when I get my basic techinics straight.

I was thinking to order from chef rubber the colored cocoa butter seems the better choice for a beginners. Is that correct?

Yes, I have a terrible time working with the chocolate when the room temperature is below 68F. :sad:

Thanks, Vanessa, for your comments about my chocs! :smile:

I haven't used the Chef Rubber colors but a lot of folks here, both professional & amateur, seem to get great results with them.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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Does one consider Trimoline to be a preservative? It's just sugar after all, and sugar is a preservative. I suppose when someone asks if there are 'preservatives' in chocolates, they are really asking about unpronouncable chemicals?

Good question about trimoline. I use it in my ganache.

While trimoline (invert sugar), liquid glucose and the addition of alcohol improve shelf life and are therefore preservatives by definition, I guess I also consider preservatives to be those unpronouncable chemicals at the end of the ingredient list.

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  • 1 month later...
Hello still me,I think I need the suggestion of an expert chocolatier here ( so this is the place )

I have been doing chocolates for a bit now , and Iam actually selling some of them in small batches,I dont have problems with filling and other things , my only ( well only :rolleyes: , but for now lets stick to this one)problem is when its time to close nice and smooth my molds .Now I know I have to leave some room and avoid to fill all the way up to the top with the filling , and I have to say I have such hard time doing it , I can refrain myself from over filling ( I am italian everything gotta to be nice and full "mangia mangia! :blink: "), anyway even when i manage to fill them below the line , I still have hard time to have a nice smooth closing on the bottom, its frustrating and actually now everytime I have to use molds I am concerned :shock: .There is any method in particulare I have to follow , the only one I have found of some help is the one on the Callebaut site .

Well after this very long post i go and finish my chocolates for the next sunday orders.

hi john,

I'm new to the forum. that picture of the chocolate in your signature is very beautiful. I have the same pcb structure sheet. how did you you get it to come out like that? looks like you combined a magnetic mold and the use of the structure sheet.

Edited by sote23 (log)
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One trick I learned in class with Jean Pierre on closing molds (particularly if your centers are a little soft) is to not close the entire mold in one fell swoop.

Using your offset, put enough chocolate on your mold to close two to three rows. Scrape those rows. Then apply more chocolate with your offset to do two to three more rows. Scrape those. Repeat until the mold is completely closed. The trick is to not apply too much chocolate so that you don't have to scrape down across rows you aren't sealing yet.

The reason this works so well, is because when you're trying to close a mold with soft centers and you're scraping chocolate across the entire bottom, it's inevitable you're going to force chocolate down into the cavities near the bottom of the mold and force some of your filling out. By only doing a few rows at a time, you avoid that problem.

I know what I've described may be a bit difficult to visualize, but it works really well. When I've been rushed on certain things (like caramels) and just don't have the time to wait, I use this technique with much success.

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One trick I learned in class with Jean Pierre on closing molds (particularly if your centers are a little soft) is to not close the entire mold in one fell swoop. 

Using your offset, put enough chocolate on your mold to close two to three rows.  Scrape those rows.  Then apply more chocolate with your offset to do two to three more rows.  Scrape those.  Repeat until the mold is completely closed.  The trick is to not apply too much chocolate so that you don't have to scrape down across rows you aren't sealing yet.

The reason this works so well, is because when you're trying to close a mold with soft centers and you're scraping chocolate across the entire bottom, it's inevitable you're going to force chocolate down into the cavities near the bottom of the mold and force some of your filling out.  By only doing a few rows at a time, you avoid that problem. 

I know what I've described may be a bit difficult to visualize, but it works really well.  When I've been rushed on certain things (like caramels) and just don't have the time to wait, I use this technique with much success.

Brilliant!!!

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