Horses Still Killed for People Food

[eje]

Horses still can be killed for food -- meatpackers got rules changed

Congress amended an agriculture spending bill last fall to ban using taxpayer funds to inspect horse meat, which would stop horse slaughter in the United States because federal law requires the inspection of all meat.

However, "...the Department of Agriculture, lobbied by the owners of the plants and their allies in Congress and in the horse and cattle industries, issued new rules last month allowing the plants to keep operating by paying the $350,000 annual cost of the inspections."

Animal Welfare groups and the legislature are "stunned" by the reversal.

[Kouign Aman]

Do the stunned really believe that horse slaughter would stop if people couldnt eat the meat?

My cat eats a lot of 'meat by-products'. Somehow, I suspect horse is one of those non-specified 'meat's. And my folks raised their dog on clearly-labeled frozen horse meat (granted, some 30 years ago).

<editted to correct order of magnitude>

Edited April 3, 2006 by Kouign Aman (log)

[Susan G]

If they're slaughtered humanely, I don't have a problem with this. I've enjoyed horsemeat in Europe.

Horses during their lifetimes live for our pleasure: It's the sole reason the species is perpetuated.......why shouldn't they serve that pleasure in death too?

[bandregg]

Horses are a common source of meat in parts of Europe. It seems to be a very Anglo trait to treat horses more like pets, and this behavior extends to other animals as well. I remember reading that the one of the reasons that Norweigian Roald Amundsen beat Robert Scott to the South Pole is that the Norweigians used their sled dogs as working animals, and when need be food. The British team treated their sled dogs more like pets and never considered eating them.

[eje]

Aside from the fact that the vast majority of Americans seem to be increasingly disconnected and uncomfortable with any of their foods' natural states, the thing that bugs me the most about this, are the people who believe that somehow they are making the world a better place by mandating that Trigger live a long life and die a "natural death" before being carted off to the rendering plant to make dogfood, soap, and jello.

[Jmahl]

Another Texas first, the highest high school dropout rate in the U.S. and two of the three horse slaughter houses in the U.S.

[jkonick]

As a former vegetarian, and someone who still feels slightly guilty about eating meat, this is interesting. A lot of vegetarians/animal rights people are in it to save the cute animals - cats, dogs, horses, etc, yet it seems like many don't care as much about the more unsightly pigs and chickens. I personally could care less whether it was a cat or a cow being killed - I just didn't want them to be killed. So now as someone who eats meat, but still understands that in the meat industry there are a lot of problems, I really have no issue with this, or at least no more of an issue than I have with any other animal being killed for food. I would much rather see people protesting factory farmed chickens than horses simply because they're not thought of as food by most Americans.

[Grub]

/History Nerd Mode On

... I remember reading that the one of the reasons that Norweigian Roald Amundsen beat Robert Scott to the South Pole is that the Norweigians used their sled dogs as working animals, and when need be food. The British team treated their sled dogs more like pets and never considered eating them.

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Amundsen's party didn't eat their dogs, they used them as fodder for their other dogs. Not that feeding dog meat to dogs (let alone eating dog meat themselves) would be any more likely for a Norwegian to do, than an Englishman. Amundsen learned a lot of survival skills from Canadian Inuits. Which is why he relied on dogs for the entire journey, unlike Scott, who the last bit on foot. Scott incidentally relied mostly on ponies and tractors (who all died or broke down, respectively) as well as dogs.

/History Nerd Mode Off

Sorry.

Never eaten horse, but wouldn't mind trying it. Only controversial meat I remember eating, is whale.

The anti-whaling movement is a good, practical example of what happens to people who are against eating horses... It started out as a logical, rational argument that some species of whales were about to go extinct, and could harm the balance of the eco system. Then it eventually changed into an emotional (and increasingly irrational and illogical) argument that whales shouldn't be killed or harmed or upset in any way whatsoever, ever (because they are cool, cute, intelligent, sing songs or live in herds or were featured in a Disney movie).

I would eat horse, but not dog or cat. That's not very logical. You might argue that I've spent lots of time around dogs and cats, and little with horses -- but I've spent even less time with bats, and I wouldn't eat those.

Our preferences are irrational, and mostly due to cultural influences.

[Pontormo]

Some time ago when I was organizing a dinner at a Taiwanese noodle place, I found this related story about dogs. What I REALLY wanted to link in honor of the Year of the Dog was an online posting of a fabulous story in The New Yorker about eating dog as the only woman in the joint. I couldn't remember the writer's name and it eluded me.

Judging by the popularity of the thread about pets and food...and all the avatars featuring puppies and other beloved pets, meat from dogs, domestic cats and ferrets would cause greater alarm than horse meat except in Kentucky or Viriginia...or anywhere in the UK below the ruins of Hadrian's wall.

This thread is related to a recent discussion in the forum, Adventures in Eating.

Recently, Hathor has reported on eating horse in Piemonte, Italy. See Post #255.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Pontormo (log)

[Radio7]

I wouldn't eat horse, primarily because I have spent a lot of time around them, and find their smell quite unpleasant. I don't like the idea of eating one.

Cow I'll eat. Chicken I'll eat. Non-endangered fish and seafood I'll eat.

Cats and dogs, no way. I hate the idea of them being slaughtered. I'm not uncomfortable with the above being slaughtered (minus the horse). Snakes, snakes look like they'd be all reptilian-y tasting too, and that seems pretty ick.

My rhyme and reason for all this is purely subjective. But so are my tastes in other foods.

To each his own.

[Jmahl]

If anyone is offended that horses are sacrificed for human consumption they should check out how chickens and cows are killed and processed.

[Rehovot]

We used to buy the cabanos sausages, here, in Israel, until my husband muttered that they taste remarkably like the horse salami he's familiar with from the Czech Republic.

I think his words were, in best Jack Nicholson fashion, "You can't handle the truth!" He's right.

[Fat Guy]

Whether or not it's rational, I think there is at least a partial explanation for why many people in the US have trouble eating dogs, cats and horses (pets) but not cows and chickens (livestock). As far as I can tell, it's basically an extension of the cannibalism taboo. Dogs, cats and horses are seen by many as part of the extended human family -- many who have these animals literally consider them to be a part of the family. As a result, the discomfort involved in thinking about eating them is reminiscent of the discomfort involved in thinking about eating people. If we kept chickens as pets and only used dogs as livestock, the perceptions would no doubt be reversed.

[TAPrice]

Don't other countries keep dogs and cats as pets? Don't most people argue that the cannibalism taboo is universal? Then why isn't the taboo against eating dogs and cats universal?

[Grub]

That part-of-the-family vs. livestock canibalism taboo observation makes a lot sense to me. I don't know what countries eat cats and dogs, but I'd be interested in hearing if they keep them as pets at all. Not that I'd expect any uniform behavior on that part for an entire country -- there are people in this country who'd eat squirrels and snakes and fluffy bunny rabbits, and others who'd keep 'em as pets...

Incidentally, a friend of mine grew up on a farm, where the kids were allowed to name the animals. This sounds like disasterous idea -- I can just envision the kids crying their eyes out because daddy is about to kill Pinky the Piglet or Henrietta the Hen... Well, that's not how it worked -- the kids were only allowed to name the animals after the appropriate cuts of meat, or meals that the animals would eventually become. It might sound a tad macabre, but apparently it worked well.

[torakris]

That part-of-the-family vs. livestock canibalism taboo observation makes a lot sense to me. I don't know what countries eat cats and dogs, but I'd be interested in hearing if they keep them as pets at all.

←

We have had a couple dog meat threads, here is one of them.

[FistFullaRoux]

As I've stated before, I was raised on a dairy farm. I eat veal happily, have no problem with any other "normal" meat available in the US. As a member of 4-H, I've raised a calf, groomed it, cared for it, and showed it for a ribbon (which I didn't win). We ate the calf after the competition. I've killed and plucked the chickens and ducks I fed every day. I know the circle of life and the filth and fear that goes with it.

I really don't know if I would be able to eat horse. We used horses every day. I know they are big, dumb, skittish, high maintenance animals with little to no personality. I know they probably taste like beef. But I think I would eat another person before I would try horse. It does not make sense, but I would have to be desperate to do it. I can't even imagine swallowing it without gagging a little.

[Pan]

Don't other countries keep dogs and cats as pets? Don't most people argue that the cannibalism taboo is universal? Then why isn't the taboo against eating dogs and cats universal?

←

When I was living in Malaysia, I had my own rooster, yet I was able to eat chickens that were not my rooster. Actually, I did end up eating my rooster and was not happy when I found out that the chicken I had eaten was my rooster. Anyway, do you see how it could be possible to distinguish between an animal you know personally and one that you don't? (And please, let's not analogize this to people we don't know!)

[Simon_S]

As regards the whole cat/dog thing, I've heard that eating animals that eat other animals is not a good idea. The possibilities for diseases jumping species is all the greater when you do that. It makes sense to me, and that reason more than any other would stop me eating dog or cat. Aside from that, I think the distinctions are pretty arbitrary.

I wouldn't have a problem with horse. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've eaten horse in France.

Si

[Dan Ryan]

As regards the whole cat/dog thing, I've heard that eating animals that eat other animals is not a good idea. The possibilities for diseases jumping species is all the greater when you do that. It makes sense to me, and that reason more than any other would stop me eating dog or cat. Aside from that, I think the distinctions are pretty arbitrary.

I wouldn't have a problem with horse. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've eaten horse in France.

Si

←

The carnivore argument is pretty unsubstantiated I think. It's impractical to raise carnivorous mammalian livestock, in terms of efficiency of conversion and perhaps personal danger too. But lions are meant to taste just fine. And I'm very happy to eat bear and pig, which are omnivorous. Not to mention all the carnivorous fish, cephalopods and crustacea we tuck into. The dog/cat/horse taboo is cultural, nothing more.

Mmm, horse.

[Pan]

Chickens are also omnivorous.

[eje]

Chickens are also omnivorous.

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Beware of the demon chicken, El Pollo Diablo!

[Grub]

Can't remember where I saw this, but...

"The only animal I can eat without feeling guilty, are chickens -- because I think they're evil geniuses who are planning to take over the world."

[FoodMan]

The Houston Press' cover article from this week was about this very subject. It offers a very balanced and informative point of view, here is the link.

My position on this issue is the same as my position on all animals killed for meat. What matters is how they are treated and killed. I would rather a horse (livestock to me, not a pet) be used for food for humans, rather than waste by injecting it full of poison and burying it. I've never had horse meat, but next time I'm in Europe, I will make it a point of checking out a salami made from it.

Someone asked earlier how to order horsemeat in the US. I do not believe this is possible. Al horse meat here is shipped to Europe or used for pet food.

[Dignan]

Someone asked earlier how to order horsemeat in the US. I do not believe this is possible. Al horse meat here is shipped to Europe or used for pet food.

←

I spent some googletime trying to nail this down. It's a difficult search because most of what comes up are sights dedicated to anti-slaughter, and they tend to stress the notion that Americans don't eat horsemeat, rather than they can't. For example, the Humane Society says this:"Horse meat is not eaten in the United States; it is exported to serve specialty markets overseas. The largest markets are France, Belgium, Holland, Japan, and Italy. The only three horse slaughter plants in the United States are foreign-owned." Not that we can't, we just don't.

I would expect a statement like "All 50 states ban the human consumption of horsemeat" or "the sale of horsemeat for human consumption" to be prominent if that were the case, so the absence of such a statement seems telling to me. I did find a reference to an Arizona statute requiring a obvious sign in any establishment serving horsemeat or words to that effect, which presumes horsemeat for human consumption is legal in AZ. I could not, however, find a reference to statute numbers or the timing of the law. I'm not inclined to do a state by state statutory search.

I did find a reference to a CA (no surprise) penal statute making it illegal to sell horse meat for human consumption. This is a misdemeanor crime; first offense, up to a $1000 fine, and 30 days to 2 years in prison.

This article by Zachary Coile in the SF Chron includes the following: "Although it is legal to consume horse meat in the United States, Americans generally are repulsed by the idea of eating an animal associated through movies and TV shows with Black Beauty, Trigger and Mr. Ed. Supporters of a ban on horse slaughter say horses should be treated as companion animals like dogs and cats rather than as cows or chickens.

"The very fact that not one restaurant in the United States places horse on the menu nor does one commercial supermarket sell horse meat -- that is not an oversight," said Cathleen Doyle, who led the successful Save the Horses ballot initiative in California. "It's an indication of the food chain hierarchy and where the American culture places our pets and companion animals."

Aha: NPR says:"Just seven states -- Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Minnesota, New Jersey, Ohio and Virginia -- allow the meat's sale domestically." But I can't figure out how to get my hands on any.

My position: I do not oppose horse slaughter if done "humanely." I don't have an issue with the bolt guns used to slaughter cows and horses. I would try horse if given the opportunity.