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Small Kitchen Renovation Appliance Choices?


azlee
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As someone who moved from a 30" American oven to a European 60cm.... I'd say: Smaller fridge!!

My only experience with 24" American stoves is my sister's old apartment one, the kind with the broiler on the bottom, but European ovens are tiny inside, max 16" wide inside and not very deep. Forget baking layer cakes (at least ones sized for American 9" pans), jelly rolls, or using your large cookie sheets. They won't fit. Also, many European ovens are catalytic ("continuous clean") rather than pyrolitic ("self-clean"), though perhaps you get more pyrolytic models in the States since it's standard there. You don't appreciate pyrolytic until you don't have it and have to use nasty smelling oven cleaner.

Our fridge/freezer is 140x60x60cm, and yes, it's small. We have to shop a lot and there's no question of stocking up on things or freezing them. If you're looking at a 1.9-2m tall model, though, they fit quite a lot. Not as much as a giant American one, but it's very reasonable.

(as for small kitchens... ours is about 5'x8', space is limited by the door to the balcony at one end, there's a rather useless broom cupboard, and we have the washing machine in there!)

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Azlee, as we work on finding smallish stuff for one of the areas of our kitchen, I've found some great stuff that we put in the "when we get a NYC apartment" file.

Miele does a speed oven with a microwave function: critical for popcorn! (I have teenaged sons whose friends run in and out in packs ...) Liebherr does a really nice 24" refrigerator, bottom freezer. It's less expensive, gives better use of space, and is more energy efficient than almost anything else I've found. I agree with the induction cooktop; I've used them at work and school, and they will be in the empty-nester's nest when the time comes.

I don't know about a small gas cooktop, though; ventilation is always an issue in my mind.

I saw a "non-kitchen" designed for a city apartment in a magazine not long ago. It was basically set into a bank of wall cabinetry, and was for people who simply did not cook. It was pretty cool, too.

"Oh, tuna. Tuna, tuna, tuna." -Andy Bernard, The Office
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Azlee, as we work on finding smallish stuff for one of the areas of our kitchen, I've found some great stuff that we put in the "when we get a NYC apartment" file.

Miele does a speed oven with a microwave function:  critical for popcorn!  (I have teenaged sons whose friends run in and out in packs ...)  Liebherr does a really nice 24" refrigerator, bottom freezer.  It's less expensive, gives better use of space, and is more energy efficient than almost anything else I've found.  I agree with the induction cooktop; I've used them at work and school, and they will be in the empty-nester's nest when the time comes.

I don't know about a small gas cooktop, though; ventilation is always an issue in my mind. 

I saw a "non-kitchen" designed for a city apartment in a magazine not long ago.  It was  basically set into a bank of wall cabinetry, and was for people who simply did not cook. It was pretty cool, too.

Thanks, yes. I'm trying to choose between the 24" and 30" Liebherr fridge. If I could just commit to the smaller fridge I could also make a decision on an over the range micro-convection oven. I'm leaning toward the sharp model 1874 now but it is 30" wide. I haven't come across anything similar that would work in 24" or 27". This is key since I may be living without an oven and cooktop until my custom cabinets are delivered (about 4 months) and would at least like to be able to heat small meals. I like the idea of keeping a file of kitchen ideas.

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where do you guys find a liebherr in Manhattan? I would get that if I can find it.  My designer is recommending a 24" Summit, which I find extremely ugly.

I don't know where in Manhattan, but Albano Appliance in Pound Ridge/Scotts Corner is where I found mine. point 'n click

Advance Tabco just did a quote for my architects, for an integrated sink/steel countertop (in a "u" shape). Commercial quality, really big, deep double-bowl sink, and the entire piece costs slightly more than just the sink would, if I went with Kohler (which was the only place I could find what I wanted, size-wise).

"Oh, tuna. Tuna, tuna, tuna." -Andy Bernard, The Office
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where do you guys find a liebherr in Manhattan? I would get that if I can find it.  My designer is recommending a 24" Summit, which I find extremely ugly.

The Liebherr is available in several places in Manhattan, Krups on W. 18th street; Manhattan Center for Kitchen and Bath <http://www.mckb.com/> on E. 19th street; FlameTech on Bowery in Chinatown. Also Drimmer's in Brooklyn have them.

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Thanks guys.  Now I have another problem: I can't have the pro-stye range I want because my hood does not vent outside.  Back to the drawing board on the range front.

you might want to consider the bosch or siemens range <http://www.boschappliances.com/category.cfm?cat_id=5> they each have matching over the range microwave/hoods. the dacor ranges also allow for a recirculating hood. but for my space problems i'd be using the dacor pair, for sure. what features were you specifically looking for in a range?

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I had considered the Vikings Hood with the 30" Vikings or Wolf range, but everyone I talked to all tell me that Viking's ignitor goes bust about once a year and cost about $120 to fix. The oven stop going above 400 after a while and getting it serviced is a bitch. Wolk, gets a slightly better report but not much. Common complaints involve the glass door on the oven breaking when the oven goes into high heat mode,

I want something that I can cook great Indian food on for one or two people. ( I hardly ever entertain), roast tomatoes and other veggies and make jams on. Once in a while I bake but that is all. Functionality and realiability is high on my list, and of course it ahs to look good. I do get a break with Bosch since my friends work for them.

Ya-Roo Yang aka "Bond Girl"

The Adventures of Bond Girl

I don't ask for much, but whatever you do give me, make it of the highest quality.

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  • 1 month later...

i hope that everyone's renovations are going well. my construction is pretty much done and i've been living with my new kitchen and bath for a couple of weeks.

of course, the kitchen still has no major appliances because i couldn't make up my mind. i've finally decided that a 30" electric range and 24" fridge, both counter depth, will work best in my small space. am planning to go with the dacor range and dacor otr convection microhood and the liebherr fridge with no icemaker to gain extra freezer storage.

will probably wait on a dishwasher to see if i stay in this apartment longer than i have originally planned. but leaning toward the 18 inch bosch.

i still need to find a good stainless counter fabricator. i think a nice marine edge stainless counter with integrated sink will make the whole kitchen practically a dream come true, in miniature. the temporary laminate counter seems sturdy enough but just doesn't as feel sanitary to me as stainless.

i'm looking at grohe faucets right now with pullouts. any recommendations for particular models? I like the ladylux models but the volume/temp control causes some counter space waste at the back for clearance.

am really loving my open stainless ventilated shelving, which i used instead of upper cabinets. definitely makes the space feel larger.

now the task of negotiating to get as much free stuff included in my appliance purchases as possible since the discount margins on these items seem very slim. any suggestions? i'm going to try for free or discounted additional accessories for the cooking appliances, free delivery, free removal of the old fridge. anything i am missing?

thanks

azlee

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  • 4 weeks later...
i hope that everyone's renovations are going well. my construction is pretty much done and i've been living with my new kitchen and bath for a couple of weeks.

of course, the kitchen still has no major appliances because i couldn't make up my mind.  i've finally decided that a 30" electric range and 24" fridge, both counter depth, will work best in my small space. am planning to go with the dacor range and dacor otr convection microhood and the liebherr fridge with no icemaker to gain extra freezer storage.

will probably wait on a dishwasher to see if i stay in this apartment longer than i have originally planned. but leaning toward the 18 inch bosch.

i still need to find a good stainless counter fabricator. i think a nice marine edge stainless counter with integrated sink will make the whole kitchen practically a dream come true, in miniature. the temporary laminate counter seems sturdy enough but just doesn't as feel sanitary to me as stainless.

i'm looking at grohe faucets right now with pullouts. any recommendations for particular models? I like the ladylux models but the volume/temp control causes some counter space waste at the back for clearance.

am really loving my open stainless ventilated shelving, which i used instead of upper cabinets. definitely makes the space feel larger.

now the task of negotiating to get as much free stuff included in my appliance purchases as possible since the discount margins on these items seem very slim. any suggestions? i'm going to try for free or discounted additional accessories for the cooking appliances, free delivery, free removal of the old fridge. anything i am missing?

thanks

azlee

i ended up with the 30" dacor millenium electric smoothtop range and the 24" liebherr fridge. also purchased a dacor convection microhood, which i hope to have installed in the next few weeks.

electric smoothtop cooking is a big adjustment but i do like the dacor and i did manage to get wonderful discounts here in nyc which just about made up for having to pay the sales tax. i also got free delivery, free extended warranties, and later free accessories from dacor to make up for the fact that the range arrived with a few light scratches. the free pizza stone and cookie sheets more than make up for the slight cosmetic damage that a few weeks use would have produced, in any event.

all in all, i'm happy with my purchases and with the extra space afforded by the use of cabinet depth appliances in my small space. thanks again, to all, for your suggestions.

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Whatever else you do with your gas-less kitchen, I can heartily recommend the new Cuisinart electric wok (got mine from Amazon). It is just fantastic and multi-purpose, powerful, easy to clean, and you can store it away anywhere. One of the best-engineered things for the kitchen I've seen in a long time; and you don't have to cook chinese to find many uses for it.

Ray

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Whatever else you do with your gas-less kitchen, I can heartily recommend the new Cuisinart electric wok (got mine from Amazon). It is just fantastic and multi-purpose, powerful, easy to clean, and you can store it away anywhere. One of the best-engineered things for the kitchen I've seen in a long time; and you don't have to cook chinese to find many uses for it.

Ray

thanks, i'll check it out. what do you use yours for, besides chinese cooking?

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Whatever else you do with your gas-less kitchen, I can heartily recommend the new Cuisinart electric wok (got mine from Amazon). It is just fantastic and multi-purpose, powerful, easy to clean, and you can store it away anywhere. One of the best-engineered things for the kitchen I've seen in a long time; and you don't have to cook chinese to find many uses for it.

Ray

thanks, i'll check it out. what do you use yours for, besides chinese cooking?

I steam chinese dumplings and veggies, cook potstickers, quickly saute veggies like baby zucchini. The recipe booklet it comes with has a couple dozen recipes, including paella(!).

Ray

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On my next refrigerator I am going to opt for one of those three door models with the 2 doors up top that are hinged on both sides to access the refrig and a freezer drawer on the bottom. The idea that you don't have to have that huge door to contend with sounds like a better setup.

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On my next refrigerator I am going to opt for one of those three door models with the 2 doors up top that are hinged on both sides to access the refrig and a freezer drawer on the bottom.  The idea that you don't have to have that huge door to contend with sounds like a better setup.

it is a nice setup if you the space for a wider fridge. sadly i didn't.

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