Micros Systems and the like

[Mussina]

We are in the process of opening a restaurant and one item we are considering is a micros system although the bid came in today a little over $5000 (for one terminal, one printer and the wiring). This price is apparently "only good until Friday" because they are switching to a new system or some other such thing.

I would love any input on micros alternatives or different ways of handling the food input. We will be a small restaurant (50 seats) with a limited prix fixe menu.

Also - does anyone have any experience buying these systems used?

many thanks in advance.

[SBonner]

I would also look at Halo, Profitek, or Igourmate. They all work have a similar user interface and have short learning curve. If you buy a used system see if you can get a service and tech support contract (120-150 CDN$ per month). You may also want to purchase a copy of an amzing inventory control program called Optimum Control which is great for analysing costs, inventory movement, loss etc and it is fully intergratable with Micros, Halo, and Profitek.

Cheers,

Stephen

Vancouver

Edited March 22, 2006 by SBonner (log)

[Holly Moore]

A couple of thoughts.

First, the "Good through Friday" sale will most likely end this week, next Friday, the Friday after that and continue until you buy something or tell them, for the third time, to go away.

Second, how much does a small, fixed price restaurant really need a Micros system? I'm thinking a cheap register from Staples for under $500 and hand writing your guest checks the old fashioned way which is also a lot classier. I'm always amazed when a fancy restaurant gives me a thermal printed check on cheap shiny paper that slides all over the presentation folder.

In a small restaurant it is good for the servers to verbally present the order to the cooks/chef and you probably won't want to go through the futzing about to set up the system for payroll or food cost analysis for such a low volume/limited menu and small staff.

[KatieLoeb]

Micros SUCKS!!!

You might as well have a box with a herd of hamsters with stone tablets and chisels placing your orders.

Look at Aloha or Digital Dining. Much better systems that also provide much better sales reports.

I'll give you just one example. In Micros, to create a new menu item, you have to create it in THREE different places (master, definition and price) as opposed to entering it ONCE and having it appear on the other screens to be modified.

Do not waste your money on this antiquated system. It's useless.

[Mussina]

Thanks everyone for the input. My feelings exactly on the "sale". Thanks for the alternative POS suggestions and the input re: just using guest checks. I am intrigued (and delighted) that you think hand written guest checks are nicer or a better way to go. I guess I am just so used to seeing the computer checks (except for when I am in the Caribbean).

I have also never, to be honest, worked at a place that didn't use micros so any and all input on a POS free restaurant would be greatly appreciated. Any particular type of check that is preferred (what, if anything, have you seen that you liked)? How does it work vis a vis the kitchen/bar (who gets what copy). God - I sound like someone who forgot how to write long hand since the invention of the computer!

[KatieLoeb]

Thanks everyone for the input.  My feelings exactly on the "sale".  Thanks for the alternative POS suggestions and the input re: just using guest checks.  I am intrigued (and delighted) that you think hand written guest checks are nicer or a better way to go.  I guess I am just so used to seeing the computer checks (except for when I am in the Caribbean). 

I have also never, to be honest, worked at a place that didn't use micros so any and all input on a POS free restaurant would be greatly appreciated.  Any particular type of check that is preferred (what, if anything, have you seen that you liked)?  How does it work vis a vis the kitchen/bar (who gets what copy).  God - I sound like someone who forgot how to write long hand since the invention of the computer!

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Holly's suggestion of handwritten checks are fine if you don't wish to avail yourself of the reports that a computerized system will provide you with. How useful those reports are and how much time they'll save you depends entirely on how much volume you're talking about. You could easily set up a spreadsheet system and hand log item sales and do the math longhand to get your Cost of Goods percentages, etc. But I find those reports pretty useful to compare to inventory on a weekly basis to look for loss, theft, waste, etc. At least for wine, beer and liquor.

[SBonner]

Thanks everyone for the input.  My feelings exactly on the "sale".  Thanks for the alternative POS suggestions and the input re: just using guest checks.  I am intrigued (and delighted) that you think hand written guest checks are nicer or a better way to go.  I guess I am just so used to seeing the computer checks (except for when I am in the Caribbean). 

I have also never, to be honest, worked at a place that didn't use micros so any and all input on a POS free restaurant would be greatly appreciated.  Any particular type of check that is preferred (what, if anything, have you seen that you liked)?  How does it work vis a vis the kitchen/bar (who gets what copy).  God - I sound like someone who forgot how to write long hand since the invention of the computer!

←

Holly's suggestion of handwritten checks are fine if you don't wish to avail yourself of the reports that a computerized system will provide you with. How useful those reports are and how much time they'll save you depends entirely on how much volume you're talking about. You could easily set up a spreadsheet system and hand log item sales and do the math longhand to get your Cost of Goods percentages, etc. But I find those reports pretty useful to compare to inventory on a weekly basis to look for loss, theft, waste, etc. At least for wine, beer and liquor.

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I think in today's restaurant industry some sort of POS system is required as Katie pointed out above for recording of waste, theft, loss and etc They are also a god send to the BOH operations for the prompt and correct order of service, for customer modifications and legibility (it's seems like alot of servers write like doctors ) Even a small 50 seat restaurant will make good use of a pos system. I'd recommend buying one whether new or used.

Stephen Bonner

Vancouver

[rooftop1000]

Not to mention, the 6 week old POS back-up is the likely culprit in the recent fire that gutted Amazing Hot Dog in NJ.

pencil ....paper

T

[Holly Moore]

I'll admit it, I'm a bit of a relic. I come from a transition period - traditional hand-written to computer entered. In fact I helped test some of the first POS systems at McDonald's in Des Plaines IL. Back then the McDonald's road signs had Wagner Boards for changable messages. I remember the sign one day, "Happiness is a working computer." I also used a computer based system in a restaurant concession I ran back in the early 80's.

Katie and everyone else is right about the reports - if you take the time to set up the system and religiously do physical inventories, the actual vs theoretical food cost information is an extremely valuable management control tool. My feeling is that a small restaurant is going to have a hard time finding the time to do all the input such a system requires. Too many fires to put out and not enough management to tote the water. The best intentions when the computer system was installed are quickly forgotten in the pressure of day to day business. And once you fall behind in these systems, you stay behind.

I hate the idea of dining room input of orders to kitchen printer output. I know - keeps the servers on the floor and gives the kitchen readable dupes to work from. But communication between server and kitchen is reduced to impersonal keystrokes. I want servers and turnout to have back and forth discussion on orders, especially when there are variations or special needs.

There are other downsides to computer systems too. Some people are computer-phobic. They may be great servers but want nothing to do with demon computers. Also those systems go down. Usually around 8 PM on a Saturday night. Nothing puts servers in the weeds faster than a non-functioning computer system.

There is the marketing truism that first and last impressions are the most important. In terms of written matter, the menu is the first impression and the guest check is the last. Restaurants put great effort into creating menus that represent their style. The same restaurants put zero effort into their guest checks - computer shaped letters on slimy, shiny, heat sensitive register tape. Same last impression as a trip through the checkout line at the local supermarket. I miss the guest checks of the past - elegant, substantial, one final opportunity for a restaurant to strut its stuff.

Yes I'd use a POS system for a limited menu fast food restaurant. Or for a 150 seat high turnover operation. Maybe even for a busy fine dining establishment. But 50 seats.... price fixed menu... Probably not. $5000.00 might be better spent elsewhere or added to the cash reserve to get me through the first few months. I can always put it in later if I really need it and find I have time to feed it all the daily and weekly data it greedily sucks in.

[KatieLoeb]

...if you take the time to set up the system and religiously do physical inventories, the actual vs theoretical food cost information is an extremely valuable management control tool. My feeling is that a small restaurant is going to have a hard time finding the time to do all the input such a system requires. Too many fires to put out and not enough management to tote the water. The best intentions when the computer system was installed are quickly forgotten in the pressure of day to day business. And once you fall behind in these systems, you stay behind.

This isn't quite like setting up Quicken on your home computer to balance your checkbook. There are trained professionals who work for/with the POS companies to tailor the system to suit your needs. I'm not even talking about entering the varying cost of chicken breasts this week, although you can entertain that level of minutiae if you wish. But tailoring even the basics of the system to reflect the menu, beverages and costs of your own establishment as well as train you and your staff well enough to change items, change prices, put in special prices (like an automatic Happy Hour price for certain beers or liquors for example), as well as use the system effectively as a timeclock and to control payroll costs for another example. Certain companies do a better job of pre-installation programming, staff and management training and post-installation support and crisis management. Those are the things you need to be asking yourself about before committing to any one POS brand. Find out what the other successful restaurants in your market are using and ask their General Managers if they're happy with the system in terms of it's ease of use, reliability and the support they're getting. That ought to speak volumes about which POS company you want to talk to about buying, leasing or just getting a service contract with for a system you buy at auction or elsewhere.

[andrewB]

anyone have a link for the aloha systems??

[godito]

I think a POS system is a great tool if you really use all of its advantages. It's great for inventory control, it makes accounting a lot easier and it can help you with instructions to your service staff, too (for instance, you can tell the computer that you only have, say, 10 special desserts. Well, every time a server logs in, it would tell him/her how many are left to sell. Much faster than the chef telling a runner that there's only three left, and by the time he's done telling everybody else, there's only one left).

But if you don't learn to use all of its features (and you don't train your staff to know as much as you do) then it's a waste of money, and I would go with the hand written checks.

[Chris Amirault]

This is a fascinating thread, entwining technology, function, service, you name it. I was particularly struck by this paragraph by Holly:

There is the marketing truism that first and last impressions are the most important.  In terms of written matter, the menu is the first impression and the guest check is the last.  Restaurants put great effort into creating menus that represent their style.  The same restaurants put zero effort into their guest checks - computer shaped letters on slimy, shiny, heat sensitive register tape.  Same last impression as a trip through the checkout line at the local supermarket.  I miss the guest checks of the past - elegant, substantial, one final opportunity for a restaurant to strut its stuff.

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This made me think about a check I had from Milles Fleurs in Rancho Santa Fe CA about twenty years ago: I had written the menu of what was then one of the best meals I had ever had on the thick white card stock check. It was a memento that sustained a lasting impression -- form suiting a very different function than the thermal print POS slip serves.

[kalypso]

anyone have a link for the aloha systems??

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Here you go, the link for Aloha. I've used Aloha for the last 5 years and am relatively happy with it. Almost falls into the TMI category.