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cakedecorator1968

Spraying Chocolate: Equipment, Materials, and Techniques

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8 hours ago, pastryani said:

No wonder I'm having issues with my Iwata - it's only 0.3mm.  But the one I've got looks like the one Jin used during her demo and hers worked just fine, so perhaps it's a compressor issue.

 

@pastryani I've got the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and it's a 0.35mm. Takes a long time to back each cavity with color, especially if you are doing more than 10 molds at one time (my finger gets tired!). I just ordered a 0.5mm needle/nozzle/nozzle cap last night after reading these comments.  I'll let you know if that speeds things up.

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8 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Bet you can get bigger needles for it - which model is it?

 

@Kerry Beal - It's the Iwata HP-CS.  It looks like there are other sizes of nozzles as @Daniel D just ordered one.  I look forward to his review, because yes it does take a very long time to get full coverage of even one mold.  @Daniel D - what compressor are you using?

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1 hour ago, pastryani said:

 

@Kerry Beal - It's the Iwata HP-CS.  It looks like there are other sizes of nozzles as @Daniel D just ordered one.  I look forward to his review, because yes it does take a very long time to get full coverage of even one mold.  @Daniel D - what compressor are you using?

Looks like 35 PSI is ideal for that airbrush.

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When spraying how hot do you guys have the cocoa butter?

Do you pass it through a sieve before spraying?

how hot do you hold the spray pan/gun components?

 

many thanks

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On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎01 at 6:48 PM, Kerry Beal said:

Uncertain - for my Paasche I prefer the biggest needle.

 


When I bought my Paasche, it came with 3 needles (.5, .8 and 1 mm according to their website). It came with the middle one installed and I haven't messed with it. Think I'll give the bigger one a try.

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3 hours ago, Tri2Cook said:


When I bought my Paasche, it came with 3 needles (.5, .8 and 1 mm according to their website). It came with the middle one installed and I haven't messed with it. Think I'll give the bigger one a try.

I've got mine all set up with the biggest needle.

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3 hours ago, Tri2Cook said:


When I bought my Paasche, it came with 3 needles (.5, .8 and 1 mm according to their website). It came with the middle one installed and I haven't messed with it. Think I'll give the bigger one a try.

 

I have a Paasche and use the largest needle. Which Paasche model are you using? I have issues with getting a steady spray of cocoa butter with it, so I can't imagine using a smaller size. But--assuming you are using it for cocoa butter--can you say a little about your experience using the middle size? Do you have to stop and heat the airbrush often? Do you get fairly full coverage of a mold, or does the cocoa butter come out in little dots (like a newspaper photo when examined closely)?

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1 hour ago, ChristysConfections said:

 Has anyone tried the Krea Swiss hotChoc? I know @markwightman was going to try it quite some time ago. It would be convenient to use something specifiy designed for use with cocoa butter/chocolate.

 

This sprayer sounds promising, but this quote from a Krea representative writing on The Chocolate Life forum is less promising:

 

Quote

If your intention is spraying pure (colored) cocoa butter, then you are better using the air-brush. The hotCHOC will work (ideally with the R4 nozzle - see www.kreaswiss.com), but it will not get as fine a spray with such a low viscosity, thin material. Our electric spray guns atomize the pure liquid as such and pure, hot cocoa butter is just too thin and liquid to get your desired result. With an airbrush you obviously add air, i.e. to every butter fatter particle you add some additional 100 air particles on top, which means the particles get a wider spread.

 

In another thread on that same forum, however, others write of decorating bonbons with the sprayer. I wish we could hear from someone with a definitive answer. The Krea videos I have seen show it being used for the velvet effect on pastries and similar items and also for speckling bonbons--after they are out of the mold. Its container holds a lot of product, but then so do most spray guns that people use for chocolate mold decorating.

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3 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

I have a Paasche and use the largest needle. Which Paasche model are you using? I have issues with getting a steady spray of cocoa butter with it, so I can't imagine using a smaller size. But--assuming you are using it for cocoa butter--can you say a little about your experience using the middle size? Do you have to stop and heat the airbrush often? Do you get fairly full coverage of a mold, or does the cocoa butter come out in little dots (like a newspaper photo when examined closely)?


I have the H-series gun with a Paasche D220R compressor but I don't have a lot of answers to questions. I haven't even sprayed colored cocoa butter with it yet. I've only sprayed chocolate thinned with cocoa butter and wasn't going for a full coverage. That's been mainly just to get a feel for using it and to make sure everything worked. I've gathered a few colors to start playing with but I need to set something up to help with mess first. I'm just playing around at home while I try to learn this stuff and don't want colored cocoa butter mist decorating the entire kitchen.

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24 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

This sprayer sounds promising, but this quote from a Krea representative writing on The Chocolate Life forum is less promising:

 

 

In another thread on that same forum, however, others write of decorating bonbons with the sprayer. I wish we could hear from someone with a definitive answer. The Krea videos I have seen show it being used for the velvet effect on pastries and similar items and also for speckling bonbons--after they are out of the mold. Its container holds a lot of product, but then so do most spray guns that people use for chocolate mold decorating.

I don't see it as practical for coloured cocoa butter based on the amount of colour you would have to put in and the inability to easily switch out for another colour quickly. I see it more for pastry.

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1 minute ago, Kerry Beal said:

I see it more for pastry.

 

I agree. With any siphon-type sprayer, the size of the container matters a lot. My little Paasche bottles don't need a lot of c.b. to reach the level of the siphon, but the HotChoc with its large container would take a huge amount--which, as you say, means a big project to clean it between colors. With gravity feed, the level of cocoa butter doesn't have to be so high. So, at the workshop, the Fuji (and whatever Lionel used)--which both had large containers--worked smoothly without a full supply of color. 

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Yeah, I've been using the same Wagner Power Painter for over 12 years now for pastry work (with zero problems so far) but I'd hate to have to fill that thing with colored cocoa butter. The price of that stuff makes me consider the possibility of just working in straight chocolate and living with the colors I can get from that. But then reality sets in and I realize that just wouldn't be as fun. :D

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7 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:

Yeah, I've been using the same Wagner Power Painter for over 12 years now for pastry work (with zero problems so far) but I'd hate to have to fill that thing with colored cocoa butter. The price of that stuff makes me consider the possibility of just working in straight chocolate and living with the colors I can get from that. But then reality sets in and I realize that just wouldn't be as fun. :D

 

I've had many a day when I was close to putting a curse on Norman Love (widely credited with popularizing the decoration of chocolates with cocoa butter). Then I thought of moving to Europe, where bonbons are more traditional and simple in decoration.

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Sorry same questions, tempering the cocoa butter to 30/30 to spray how do you regulate the small airmen to successfully deal with the load and would you use a small amount of colour per tijme in the gun/pen??

If the gun/airpen per say was 35/40 would that affect the cocoa butter being sprayed??

 

many thanks

 

 

When spraying how hot do you guys have the cocoa butter?

Do you pass it through a sieve before spraying?

how hot do you hold the spray pan/gun components?

 

many thanks

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9 minutes ago, leopardots said:

Sorry same questions, tempering the cocoa butter to 30/30 to spray how do you regulate the small airmen to successfully deal with the load and would you use a small amount of colour per tijme in the gun/pen??

If the gun/airpen per say was 35/40 would that affect the cocoa butter being sprayed??

 

many thanks

 

 

When spraying how hot do you guys have the cocoa butter?

Do you pass it through a sieve before spraying?

how hot do you hold the spray pan/gun components?

 

many thanks

When I fully melt my cocoa butter (which isn't all the time) - I like to take it to around 35º C.  I put a bit in the gun at a time. 

 

I don't put it through a sieve - there are times when it likely would have been a good idea when I get clots in the gun.

 

I use a little warmer try to keep my little airbrushes on - it's probably around 40º C - reduce the heat with an Ikea dimmer switch.

 

 

 

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I am in a minority here, but I actually make sure my cocoa butter is in temper. I know that many experts say to put the bottle in the microwave, melt it a bit, shake it, then assume that the act of spraying it from a gun will temper it, but I don't know of any method of proving that theory (how exactly would you check the temperature--or crystallization state, to be more precise--of cocoa butter as it lands on a mold?). I've used that "don't verify, just spray" method, and sometimes the molds are fine, other times not. Since I started actually testing the c.b., I have had far fewer problems with release from molds. My method: I heat the c.b. in the microwave to somewhere beyond 90F/32C. Using a Thermapen to stir it, I let the temp fall to around 92F/33.3C (putting the bottle in a cold water bath if necessary), then add a dab of cocoa butter silk (from the EZtemper), stir it, then when it's around 90F/32C, I test it in the usual way. Some c.b. takes longer to set than others (red seems to be especially stubborn), but after the silk has been added, in my experience the c.b. has always been in temper. Then I put it on the heat a little to raise the temp to the top of the range (just before Type V crystals melt), then rush to attach the bottle to my Paasche airbrush and start spraying. I use a heat gun (far more than is pleasant) to keep the temp up, but I don't check it any more.

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On 6/2/2017 at 0:34 PM, pastryani said:

 

@Kerry Beal - It's the Iwata HP-CS.  It looks like there are other sizes of nozzles as @Daniel D just ordered one.  I look forward to his review, because yes it does take a very long time to get full coverage of even one mold.  @Daniel D - what compressor are you using?

@pastryani I received the .5mm accessories and tried them out last weekend. Now, the only airbrush I've ever used is the Iwata, so that's my only frame of reference. But, spraying was SIGNIFICANTLY faster than with the default configuration (0.35mm). I think it took me between 1-2 minute per mold to backspray all cavities with white cocoa butter. I was pleased with the results and will likely stick with this airbrush until I open up my own business and production demands necessitate a more efficient airbrush.

 

Edit: Im not sure what model the compressor is since I'm not the owner (I'm apprenticing), but it looks like an ancient Jun Air.


Edited by Daniel D (log)
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37 minutes ago, pastryani said:

Thanks for the info @Daniel D!  Can I ask where you got the larger tip?

@pastryani I got the accessories from the MerriArtist website since they were somewhat close - they're located in Oregon and I'm in Washington.

 

Here's a list of what I ordered (about $30):

I-602-1 Nozzle Cap .5mm

I-604-1 Fluid Nozzle 0.5

I-617-1 Fluid Needle 0.5 mm

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3 hours ago, pastryani said:

@Daniel D do I need all 3 of those pieces to swap out the nozzle?

@pastryani I bought all 3 because that's what I read online in a few places. I haven't attempted to mix and match the different parts, so I'm not sure if you could get away with only 1 or 2 of them.

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You need to swap all 3 - each size has a cap, a needle and a nozzle just for it.

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9 hours ago, pastryani said:

@Daniel D do I need all 3 of those pieces to swap out the nozzle?


I'm not familiar with that particular gun but for the one I use, it is necessary to have the complete assembly (all 3 parts). Mine came with all 3 sizes that are available for the gun I use and it came with a nozzle, needle and cap for each size.

Edit: I type too slow... Kerry already covered it. :D


Edited by Tri2Cook (log)
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