Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

cakedecorator1968

Spraying Chocolate: Equipment, Materials, and Techniques

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, pastryani said:

No wonder I'm having issues with my Iwata - it's only 0.3mm.  But the one I've got looks like the one Jin used during her demo and hers worked just fine, so perhaps it's a compressor issue.

 

@pastryani I've got the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and it's a 0.35mm. Takes a long time to back each cavity with color, especially if you are doing more than 10 molds at one time (my finger gets tired!). I just ordered a 0.5mm needle/nozzle/nozzle cap last night after reading these comments.  I'll let you know if that speeds things up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Bet you can get bigger needles for it - which model is it?

 

@Kerry Beal - It's the Iwata HP-CS.  It looks like there are other sizes of nozzles as @Daniel D just ordered one.  I look forward to his review, because yes it does take a very long time to get full coverage of even one mold.  @Daniel D - what compressor are you using?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, pastryani said:

 

@Kerry Beal - It's the Iwata HP-CS.  It looks like there are other sizes of nozzles as @Daniel D just ordered one.  I look forward to his review, because yes it does take a very long time to get full coverage of even one mold.  @Daniel D - what compressor are you using?

Looks like 35 PSI is ideal for that airbrush.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When spraying how hot do you guys have the cocoa butter?

Do you pass it through a sieve before spraying?

how hot do you hold the spray pan/gun components?

 

many thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎01 at 6:48 PM, Kerry Beal said:

Uncertain - for my Paasche I prefer the biggest needle.

 


When I bought my Paasche, it came with 3 needles (.5, .8 and 1 mm according to their website). It came with the middle one installed and I haven't messed with it. Think I'll give the bigger one a try.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tri2Cook said:


When I bought my Paasche, it came with 3 needles (.5, .8 and 1 mm according to their website). It came with the middle one installed and I haven't messed with it. Think I'll give the bigger one a try.

I've got mine all set up with the biggest needle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tri2Cook said:


When I bought my Paasche, it came with 3 needles (.5, .8 and 1 mm according to their website). It came with the middle one installed and I haven't messed with it. Think I'll give the bigger one a try.

 

I have a Paasche and use the largest needle. Which Paasche model are you using? I have issues with getting a steady spray of cocoa butter with it, so I can't imagine using a smaller size. But--assuming you are using it for cocoa butter--can you say a little about your experience using the middle size? Do you have to stop and heat the airbrush often? Do you get fairly full coverage of a mold, or does the cocoa butter come out in little dots (like a newspaper photo when examined closely)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ChristysConfections said:

 Has anyone tried the Krea Swiss hotChoc? I know @markwightman was going to try it quite some time ago. It would be convenient to use something specifiy designed for use with cocoa butter/chocolate.

 

This sprayer sounds promising, but this quote from a Krea representative writing on The Chocolate Life forum is less promising:

 

Quote

If your intention is spraying pure (colored) cocoa butter, then you are better using the air-brush. The hotCHOC will work (ideally with the R4 nozzle - see www.kreaswiss.com), but it will not get as fine a spray with such a low viscosity, thin material. Our electric spray guns atomize the pure liquid as such and pure, hot cocoa butter is just too thin and liquid to get your desired result. With an airbrush you obviously add air, i.e. to every butter fatter particle you add some additional 100 air particles on top, which means the particles get a wider spread.

 

In another thread on that same forum, however, others write of decorating bonbons with the sprayer. I wish we could hear from someone with a definitive answer. The Krea videos I have seen show it being used for the velvet effect on pastries and similar items and also for speckling bonbons--after they are out of the mold. Its container holds a lot of product, but then so do most spray guns that people use for chocolate mold decorating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

I have a Paasche and use the largest needle. Which Paasche model are you using? I have issues with getting a steady spray of cocoa butter with it, so I can't imagine using a smaller size. But--assuming you are using it for cocoa butter--can you say a little about your experience using the middle size? Do you have to stop and heat the airbrush often? Do you get fairly full coverage of a mold, or does the cocoa butter come out in little dots (like a newspaper photo when examined closely)?


I have the H-series gun with a Paasche D220R compressor but I don't have a lot of answers to questions. I haven't even sprayed colored cocoa butter with it yet. I've only sprayed chocolate thinned with cocoa butter and wasn't going for a full coverage. That's been mainly just to get a feel for using it and to make sure everything worked. I've gathered a few colors to start playing with but I need to set something up to help with mess first. I'm just playing around at home while I try to learn this stuff and don't want colored cocoa butter mist decorating the entire kitchen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

This sprayer sounds promising, but this quote from a Krea representative writing on The Chocolate Life forum is less promising:

 

 

In another thread on that same forum, however, others write of decorating bonbons with the sprayer. I wish we could hear from someone with a definitive answer. The Krea videos I have seen show it being used for the velvet effect on pastries and similar items and also for speckling bonbons--after they are out of the mold. Its container holds a lot of product, but then so do most spray guns that people use for chocolate mold decorating.

I don't see it as practical for coloured cocoa butter based on the amount of colour you would have to put in and the inability to easily switch out for another colour quickly. I see it more for pastry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kerry Beal said:

I see it more for pastry.

 

I agree. With any siphon-type sprayer, the size of the container matters a lot. My little Paasche bottles don't need a lot of c.b. to reach the level of the siphon, but the HotChoc with its large container would take a huge amount--which, as you say, means a big project to clean it between colors. With gravity feed, the level of cocoa butter doesn't have to be so high. So, at the workshop, the Fuji (and whatever Lionel used)--which both had large containers--worked smoothly without a full supply of color. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I've been using the same Wagner Power Painter for over 12 years now for pastry work (with zero problems so far) but I'd hate to have to fill that thing with colored cocoa butter. The price of that stuff makes me consider the possibility of just working in straight chocolate and living with the colors I can get from that. But then reality sets in and I realize that just wouldn't be as fun. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:

Yeah, I've been using the same Wagner Power Painter for over 12 years now for pastry work (with zero problems so far) but I'd hate to have to fill that thing with colored cocoa butter. The price of that stuff makes me consider the possibility of just working in straight chocolate and living with the colors I can get from that. But then reality sets in and I realize that just wouldn't be as fun. :D

 

I've had many a day when I was close to putting a curse on Norman Love (widely credited with popularizing the decoration of chocolates with cocoa butter). Then I thought of moving to Europe, where bonbons are more traditional and simple in decoration.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry same questions, tempering the cocoa butter to 30/30 to spray how do you regulate the small airmen to successfully deal with the load and would you use a small amount of colour per tijme in the gun/pen??

If the gun/airpen per say was 35/40 would that affect the cocoa butter being sprayed??

 

many thanks

 

 

When spraying how hot do you guys have the cocoa butter?

Do you pass it through a sieve before spraying?

how hot do you hold the spray pan/gun components?

 

many thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, leopardots said:

Sorry same questions, tempering the cocoa butter to 30/30 to spray how do you regulate the small airmen to successfully deal with the load and would you use a small amount of colour per tijme in the gun/pen??

If the gun/airpen per say was 35/40 would that affect the cocoa butter being sprayed??

 

many thanks

 

 

When spraying how hot do you guys have the cocoa butter?

Do you pass it through a sieve before spraying?

how hot do you hold the spray pan/gun components?

 

many thanks

When I fully melt my cocoa butter (which isn't all the time) - I like to take it to around 35º C.  I put a bit in the gun at a time. 

 

I don't put it through a sieve - there are times when it likely would have been a good idea when I get clots in the gun.

 

I use a little warmer try to keep my little airbrushes on - it's probably around 40º C - reduce the heat with an Ikea dimmer switch.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am in a minority here, but I actually make sure my cocoa butter is in temper. I know that many experts say to put the bottle in the microwave, melt it a bit, shake it, then assume that the act of spraying it from a gun will temper it, but I don't know of any method of proving that theory (how exactly would you check the temperature--or crystallization state, to be more precise--of cocoa butter as it lands on a mold?). I've used that "don't verify, just spray" method, and sometimes the molds are fine, other times not. Since I started actually testing the c.b., I have had far fewer problems with release from molds. My method: I heat the c.b. in the microwave to somewhere beyond 90F/32C. Using a Thermapen to stir it, I let the temp fall to around 92F/33.3C (putting the bottle in a cold water bath if necessary), then add a dab of cocoa butter silk (from the EZtemper), stir it, then when it's around 90F/32C, I test it in the usual way. Some c.b. takes longer to set than others (red seems to be especially stubborn), but after the silk has been added, in my experience the c.b. has always been in temper. Then I put it on the heat a little to raise the temp to the top of the range (just before Type V crystals melt), then rush to attach the bottle to my Paasche airbrush and start spraying. I use a heat gun (far more than is pleasant) to keep the temp up, but I don't check it any more.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 6/2/2017 at 0:34 PM, pastryani said:

 

@Kerry Beal - It's the Iwata HP-CS.  It looks like there are other sizes of nozzles as @Daniel D just ordered one.  I look forward to his review, because yes it does take a very long time to get full coverage of even one mold.  @Daniel D - what compressor are you using?

@pastryani I received the .5mm accessories and tried them out last weekend. Now, the only airbrush I've ever used is the Iwata, so that's my only frame of reference. But, spraying was SIGNIFICANTLY faster than with the default configuration (0.35mm). I think it took me between 1-2 minute per mold to backspray all cavities with white cocoa butter. I was pleased with the results and will likely stick with this airbrush until I open up my own business and production demands necessitate a more efficient airbrush.

 

Edit: Im not sure what model the compressor is since I'm not the owner (I'm apprenticing), but it looks like an ancient Jun Air.


Edited by Daniel D (log)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, pastryani said:

Thanks for the info @Daniel D!  Can I ask where you got the larger tip?

@pastryani I got the accessories from the MerriArtist website since they were somewhat close - they're located in Oregon and I'm in Washington.

 

Here's a list of what I ordered (about $30):

I-602-1 Nozzle Cap .5mm

I-604-1 Fluid Nozzle 0.5

I-617-1 Fluid Needle 0.5 mm

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, pastryani said:

@Daniel D do I need all 3 of those pieces to swap out the nozzle?

@pastryani I bought all 3 because that's what I read online in a few places. I haven't attempted to mix and match the different parts, so I'm not sure if you could get away with only 1 or 2 of them.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to swap all 3 - each size has a cap, a needle and a nozzle just for it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, pastryani said:

@Daniel D do I need all 3 of those pieces to swap out the nozzle?


I'm not familiar with that particular gun but for the one I use, it is necessary to have the complete assembly (all 3 parts). Mine came with all 3 sizes that are available for the gun I use and it came with a nozzle, needle and cap for each size.

Edit: I type too slow... Kerry already covered it. :D


Edited by Tri2Cook (log)
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Kasia
      MILLET GROATS CHOCOLATE CREME WITH CRANBERRY MOUSSE
       
      Today I would like to share with you the recipe for the best chocolate crème I have ever eaten. It is thick, smooth and very chocolaty in flavour and colour. Despite the chocolate, the dessert isn't too sweet. But if somebody thinks that it is, I recommend serving it with slightly sour fruit mousse. You can use cherries, currants or cranberries. You will make an unusually yummy arrangement and your dessert will look beautiful.

      My children were delighted with this dessert. I told them about the fact it had been made with millet groats after they had eaten it, and ... they didn't believe me. Next time I will prepare the millet groats crème with a double portion of ingredients.

      Ingredients (for 4 people)
      chocolate crème
      100g of millet groats
      200g of dark chocolate
      1 tablespoon of dark cocoa
      250ml of almond milk
      fruit mousse
      250g of fresh cranberries
      juice and peel of one orange
      half a teaspoon of grated ginger
      4 tablespoons of brown sugar

      Boil the millet groats in salty water and drain them. Melt the chocolate in a bain-marie. Blend the millet groats, chocolate, cocoa and milk very thoroughly until you have very smooth crème. Pour the milk in gradually to make the right consistency of your desert. Prepare the fruit mousse. Put the washed cranberries, ginger, juice orange peel and sugar into a pot. Boil until the fruits are soft. Blend. Put the chocolate crème into some small bowls. Put the fruit mousse on top. Decorate with peppermint leaves. Serve at once or chilled.

      Enjoy your meal!


    • By ChristysConfections
      I am trying to find boxes like these pictured below, with matching candy trays and candy pads. They are about the size of a piece of paper and about 2-2 1/2 inches high. Haven’t had any luck finding them domestically. Anyone else use something like these? How do you store/package your bulk chocolates?
       


    • By pastrygirl
      Has anyone used the chocolate pump that TCF offers?  https://www.tcfsales.com/products/c115-mol-d'art-melters/
       
      I'd like to increase both production and efficiency, so I'm looking at a 20-24kg melter, the pump, and possibly an EZ temper as an upgrade from a 6kg melter, a bunch of bowls and a ladle.
       
      What do other chocolatiers think?  I doubt I'll jump right into 24kg at a time, but I figure might as well have the capacity since it is the same footprint as the 12kg melter.  The pump would save a lot of time with molding, provided it doesn't clog up or over-temper the chocolate - is a stray chunk going to cause havoc?  And if it is a full 24kg, that's a lot of chocolate to hand-temper, so much heavy stirring.  Would the pump be able to mix in EZ Temper silk and make tempering virtually hands-free?
       
      thanks!
       
       
    • By MrJonathanGreen40
      One of my friends is leaving for Spain next week, and I’m planning to surprise her with a party before she leaves. Since she’s a huge lover of sweets, I decided to buy her a cake. I don’t know where to start looking, but my brother suggested that I buy from this online provider of custom cakes. I checked their website, and I think they have cakes that my friend will love. I haven’t bought anything yet because I want to be 100% sure that their cakes are truly excellent. Do you have any idea how I should examine cakes through the Internet? What are the things that I must take into consideration? Thanks!
    • By jedovaty
      Hi:
       
      I'm making some homemade peanut butter cups, but shaping them like bon bons instead.  I don't have bon bon molds, so instead I'm dipping the peanut butter centers into tempered chocolate.  As the chocolate coating sets, it contracts and my soft peanut butter center squirts out a little.  Is there a way to prevent this, or do I need to do a second dipping?  I've tried with both frozen and room temp centers (although peanut butter with a little vanilla, salt, and powdered sugar doesn't seem to freeze at all).
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×