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Good Midrange Paris restaurants: a dying breed?


phrederic

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This is my first post, so please be patient with me if I have managed to break any guidelines.

My wife and I are approaching our 14th year in Paris. One of our great disappointments over the years has been watching so many restaurants decline. Local bistros have taken increasingly to buying their ingredients en masse from Metro or another industrial wholesaler, favorite "a la bonne franquette" restaurants become discovered by the tour-group circuit and stop even trying to live up to former standards and newer places tend to follow the New York and London trend of being more inventive than their kitchen can successfully execute. Many of the top restaurants are great, and certainly a bargain internationally, but finding very good midrange places seems increasingly difficult. Particularily if you want Traditionnal French with points of Haut Cuisine but not too far out.

Of the many examples of this sort of thing, I'd love to hear reactions from others who agree and disagree on some of the following:

the once delightful

le Gavroche

rue St. Marc Paris 2

Once one of the best Cote de Boeuf in town, with an absolutely first class wine list. We ate here at least every 3 weeks for years. Even after the owner died (late 80's?) it kept its convivial atmosphere AND its commitment to great wine and quality ingredients for years. Then they started attracting more and more tourists. Then they stopped replacing most of the better wines on the list. Next? The beef went from stellar, to pretty good, to entirely hit-and-miss. Sigh. It still seems to please people, but long ago stopped being the gem it had so-long remained.

Chez Michel

10 rue Belzunce

Paris 10

Everybody loves this place. I know I did the first year it was opened. But the prices simply put it in the starred restaurant category now, and the food seems to have strayed into fusion experimentalism. When they opened the "bistro" around the corner we had hopes; order off the Michel winelist maybe? But the bistro turned out too inexpensive to make comfort or decent service a profitable enterprise. In a way, with the two restaurants, chez michel summarizes my point. Cheap low-end that really is too low-end and over-the-top high end that you aren't going to eat in every week.

To balance this out I'll give 2 plugs:

Au Crus de Bourgogne

3 rue Bachaumont

Paris 2

Ok. This is one of the exceptions. In the many years I've been eating here the quality has remained consistently great. The prices are reasonable, but cost what it takes to keep it up. Maybe a little boring, not overly inventive, but always very good. The winelist could be bigger, but there is always a puligny or chassagne for the fish, always a decent cote rotie or something cote de nuits for the meat. The Sole is still fabulous, simple and to the point. The Lobster thursdays a steal. And when, in season they do the millefeuilles de fraises des bois, stay away. It all belongs to me and I don't want to share.

Le Charlain

23 rue Clauzel

Paris 9

Brand new place. Inventive traditionnal, but still solid quality, quantity and atmosphere. The Gingerbread Macarroon with the house Foie Gras is amazing. The Jurasienne de Veau great and still filling. The winelist has 18 euros vdp for the budget but always a large range of wines from the Gaillard Condrieu for the Foie Gras to reasonable 40 euro Margaux for the entrecote..all the way up to very mature Mouton Lafitte and Latour. I wish there were more places like this.

(Full disclosure: These people are friends of mine from their previous restaurant, le Va et Vient, rue des batignolles, Paris 17, but I include them not just as a plug, but because their new place is actually an improvement in quality over the previous, which is the exception to the trend I'm remarking on in this post)

What does anyone else think? Am just growing old and grumpy?

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This is my first post, so please be patient with me if I have managed to break any guidelines.

What does anyone else think? Am just growing old and grumpy?

Welcome.

I can't think of a guideline you've broken.

Terrific post, after 13 years you have earned the right to be disappointed, even grumpy.

And it's great to have someone else on the ground contributing. I hope you'll continue.

To answer your questions. Yes I think the great old bargain places have gone pricey and Chez Michel is a good example, although I still go there during game season. But with Breton's setting up Philippe Tredgeu at Chez Casimir there was a great alternative, sadly now no longer interesting (at least as of my meal there last month) once he left for Entredgeu.

I guess where I'd quibble is that places I ate at 5-10-15-20-etc years ago are still there, many still with the same menus but increased prices, so I (and my restless three co-conspirators) have moved on.

Therefor - I'm not bored - angry and deceived sometimes, but rarely bored.

Sure I think people like Inaki and Choukroun messed up a winning formula by going too far but hey, no pain no gain.

In the past year, I think the opening or rejuvenation of places like Carte Blanche, Cave est restaurant, Petrossian, Bistral & Chez les Anges has kept the excitement up. If the Fooding + Omnivore folks want to push for more exotic spices and ingredients and cooking methods - fine.

What does make me grumpy and what I've commented on elsewhere is the trendiness and lack of imagination that some places show - exemplified by this year's disease of the month - pumpkin soup - one couldn't avoid it.

And you're right, the dumbing down in purchasing products, freezing stuff, microwaving, etc is annoying.

But I'm not gonna starve.

John Talbott

blog John Talbott's Paris

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John-

I quite like the Carte Blanche, Bistral and Petrossian, but still find most of these too international "Fooding". And I could use some starvation in order to lose some weight, but obviously I'm not actually going to do that in Paris. But to continue the trend:

Le Villaret

rue ? by oberkampf and Ave de la republique

Paris 11

I loved this place as a solid, inventive source of semi-affordable gastronomy and wine. The rognons de Veau, the Pierre Gimmonet 1er cru Champagne for a pittance etc. When the "old man" bowed out I thought it might actually get better. But the last 4 times there it has gone from bad to worse as the prices keep growing and the service has become incompentent-yet-sneering. 2 bad pieces of fish in a row take some forgiving. But good fish is pricey and when the restaurant starts cheating it is always one of the first places you can tell.

For game, what about:

Le Repaire de Cartouche

rue St. Sebastien

Paris 11

Very good wine list, fabulous patés and terrine (especially whatever the dish up to you to wet your appetite daily), succulent sanglier, gargantuan pave de cerf, the best pot a la creme since my adopted Norman aunt made 'em 22 years ago! And those little cans of sablets au beurre... Well if you know it, you've got to like it. Don't you? Reasonable prices for the quality. If only the service wasn't so intermittent....

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I don't there are a lack of great mid-range restaurants. Perhaps the restaurants you have gone to in the past are just not holding up. They have not carried on with the same zeal, changed chefs, changed owners, or whatever. But they have been replaced by burgeoning newcomers.

I'm going to assume that "midrange" is somewhere about 50-75 Euros PP for dinner. (That's what it means to me. ) Here are some that I love, they are a wonderful dining experience at a moderate price:

Le Dome du Marais, 4th Arr. Wonderful venue with slight accent on Breton specialties.

L'Epi Dupin, 6th Arr. Close quarters, talk-with-your neighbor tables, lots of fun, good service, and terrific food. Don't miss the Goat cheese & endive tart.

La Petite Cour A gorgeous setting below street level in a courtyard, wonderful classsic food, beautiful sculptured fountains.

L'Alivi, 4th Arr. A cute little resto that is all-Corsican, from the "affiches" on the wall to the wine to the cuisine. Nice.

Just a sampling, there are scores of excellent midrange restaurants in Paris, IMHO. It seems that the ones you frequent have gone down over many years, but good new ones have sprouted all over to take their place.

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phrederic.I agree with most of your comments.Fortunately its not all grey.

Good restaurants are still around .one has to find them .John does an excellent jog in that arena.

Some noteworthy ones are.

-la grande rue.15e

-la chaumiere.15e

-couleurs de vigne.15e. mostly for the wine

-Thierry Burlot.15e

Please note they are mostly in the 15th . not a tourist destination.

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I'm going to assume that "midrange" is somewhere about 50-75 Euros PP for dinner. 

La Petite Cour A gorgeous setting below street level in a courtyard, wonderful classsic food, beautiful sculptured fountains. 

It seems that the ones you frequent have gone down over many years, but good new ones have sprouted all over to take their place.

Ah, that's not my definition - I draw the line at 110 €/couple with wine & coffee - and phrederic never defined it now that I think of it.

Not to be contentious, but when were you last at La Petite Cour? Since Gilles Epie blew in and out it's not the same place at all.

Agree on decline and sprouting though.

John Talbott

blog John Talbott's Paris

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Ah, that's not my definition - I draw the line at 100 €/couple with wine & coffee - and phrederic never defined it now that I think of it.

Not to be contentious, but when were you last at La Petite Cour?  Since Gilles Epie blew in and out it's not the same place at all.

Agree on decline and sprouting though.

Well, we are in approx. the same ballpark. Sure. I go for the 100 Euros per couple.

I was at La Petite Cour in September. It was nice. The setting helps a lot too. Is it "over the hill" now, in your judgement?

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Ah, that's not my definition - I draw the line at 100 €/couple with wine & coffee - and phrederic never defined it now that I think of it.

Not to be contentious, but when were you last at La Petite Cour?  Since Gilles Epie blew in and out it's not the same place at all.

Agree on decline and sprouting though.

Well, we are in approx. the same ballpark. Sure. I go for the 100 Euros per couple.

I was at La Petite Cour in September. It was nice. The setting helps a lot too. Is it "over the hill" now, in your judgement?

It was Aug-Sept 2004, just after Epie decamped and it was just not the same place. And I love to sit in the sun too.

John Talbott

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Yes I think the great old bargain places have gone pricey and Chez Michel is a good example, although I still go there during game season. 

Wow, I guess I haven't been to Chez Michel in some time. The last time, which was at least a year ago, he still had the 3-course 30 Euro menu and the food was still wonderful. What's changed?

Edited by Felice (log)

www.parisnotebook.wordpress.com

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It was Aug-Sept 2004, just after Epie decamped and it was just not the same place.  And I love to sit in the sun too.

Well, I suppose that since I had no baseline to compare to yet, it was acceptable to me. :smile:

I went in the evening, so the fountains were lit up in lots of colored lighting, it was lovely. Have to go back to my journal to recall what we ate, however.

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Have to go back to my journal to recall what we ate, however.

The dish I remember from 1991 was/were the haricots verts of all things - at that point it was a G/M 13 with one toque but even G/M notes that there was an "inconsistency" of chefs after the departure of Michel Oliver (founder) and his sister Stephane.

John Talbott

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Wonderful post, and the subject has been very much on my mind ever since I saw a Canadian couple with a serious case of sticker shock in L'Arpege. Clearly it was their first time in a 3-star, and possibly in Paris, and they weren't prepared. Most tourists who are in town for just a few days aren't, yet rather than starting on the culinary bunny slopes, they go straight for the double black diamond.

But would they have been better off in a bistro? Whoever says it's impossible to eat a bad meal in Paris hasn't been there for a while. Seems to me that I'm more and more frequently walking out of Parisian places at all levels feeling pinched in the wallet and dissatisfied in the gullet. We're looking at runaway price inflation across the board but food quality that is at best treading water.

L'Arpege at last check was the most expensive place in town, but not by all that much (380 euros per when I went in October, Compare that to 2001, when a similar Arpege menu was just over 110 euros.) The high-end bistros can be extremely pricey, and the cheaper ones are still about 50-100 but even spottier in quality. The 3-stars have unconscionably high prices, but maybe half of them offer meals worth every penny to a client who appreciates it. I wish that percentage held true for the midrange.

I'd say my midrange chances of having a good meal are maybe 1 in 10, maybe worse if you don't do your homework, for the reasons you so astutely mention. I almost never get away with paying much less than 100 euros per person in bistros, and how many times is it really worth it? Especially once you compare it with what you can get for the same amount in Spain or Italy. The problem now with this hyperinflation is that the better places of 1980 prices cost at least several times that today, if not hundreds of times more. I want to cry when I hear friends talk about eating at Robuchon in 1986 for $15.

When I lived in Paris and needed to eat in a midrange, simple place, I mainly stuck to the neighborhood places in the 17th near Ternes. There are a few OK places there that would not be much use to tourists. It's good to look for these long-established well-heeled neighborhoods. The clientele demands a certain consistency of quality in local restaurants.

Let's see, what do we have in the low end that isn't too low end? The quiche Lorraine at La Lorraine. Chez Fred has a good cote de boeuf, maybe not as stellar as the one at the former La Gavroche, but respectable. Across the river, Lena & Memille is friendly and good value. Le Poule au Pot is good in the 7th. As for value higher up, I'd say Senderens now qualifies. It's definitely not a 3-star anymore, but I couldn't distinguish the difference between a sechzwan pepper dacquoise that cost 70 euros in 2003 and 17 euros when the restaurant reopened in its new format. The price per person is about 70 euros, and it's terrific value for the money. The wine list still receives a good deal of attention.

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Thanks for responding. I'm very happy so many people have had input. Not as many as i hoped have actually responded to individual restaurants or added their own reccomendations. Arpege? Um yeah. Someone's kidding, right? Helene Darroze (Genius) okay? But that isn't really the point. Of the suggestions I've made; who adds something similar or adds something of the like?

Chez Paul a la bastille? yuck. Not real. Better Mimi or Lou Lou.

or, for a specific subject, i.e.:

Chez Alexandre

Comptoir des Canettes

Paris 6

The best Neapolitan joint in town. For at least 15 years. Linguine ai vongole veraci. Not cheap, but good. midrange, special!

Enoteca

rue St. Paul

Paris 4

For example...

Does anyone have comparable suggestions? That you ALWAYS frequent?

please?

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I second Florimond; and would add Leo le Lion across the street from Florimond. More pricey but with quality ingredients and larger portions. A few blocks away is Maupertu, another Bib Gourmand with a 21 euro prix-fixe lunch. This part of the 7th has got to be "ground zero" for quality/price!

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Thanks for responding. I'm very happy so many people have had input. Not as many as i hoped have actually responded to individual restaurants or added their own reccomendations.

Does anyone have comparable suggestions? That you ALWAYS frequent?

please?

Please note the 4 individual restaurants i mentionned.Full 3 course dinner is around 30 euros without wine.They are true value .you pay double that in an equivalent restaurant.I am always searching for worthy restaurants that are good value .Despite the pessimism expressed by some ,france abounds with good eats.

High end restaurants ,except for lunch are outrageous when it comes to cost.

Its mostly hype and often the food is nothing special ,or not worth the cost.

Inflation in paris is no different from inflation in NY, or any where else.

I just retuned from buenos aires and found dinners to be 15% higher then last year.So its important to do ones homework and search for the ones that deliver good rapport quality/prix

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I've been to Petit Cour a couple times, and found both the food and service substandard, and the restaurant full of tourists.

Anti-alcoholics are unfortunates in the grip of water, that terrible poison, so corrosive that out of all substances it has been chosen for washing and scouring, and a drop of water added to a clear liquid like Absinthe, muddles it." ALFRED JARRY

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We really didn't like Enoteca on Rue St. Paul, when we went in January. It was okay, not great. Other friends thought it was the best Italian meal in Paris.

I'd say it is mid range as far as price, however...

How about Chez Janou near Bastille?

Philly Francophiles

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Thanks for responding. I'm very happy so many people have had input. Not as many as i hoped have actually responded to individual restaurants or added their own reccomendations. Arpege? Um yeah. Someone's kidding, right? Helene Darroze (Genius) okay?

Does anyone have comparable suggestions? That you ALWAYS frequent?

please?

So many points to address here Phrederic.

Places we ALWAYS frequent? Hummm. Well, I just looked at my notes from 1991-1992, the first full year we ate almost everyday in France and of all the places we ate at, we still revisit only one- the Bistrot du Dome. There were plenty of others that were good but have dropped off the radar screen, largely because of the killing combination of price inflation and menu stagnation, eg Olympe, Chez Pauline, Petit Marguery, Rostang, Beatilles, Arpege, yes, it had a 290 FF menu then (or $51.40) and Les Ambassadeurs, again the menu was only 320 FF = $58 then.

As for Helene Darroze, genius?, now you've got to be kidding; I'd say more but I think the libel laws would do me in.

So there you have it, 15 years and only one that holds up, is consistent, maintains the price-quality ratio in the mid-range and is just as good now as when it opened, despite the kitchen and wait-staff changing constantly.

John Talbott

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I find that Paris has many relatively inexpensive, yet wonderful restaurants. But I’ve only been here for five years, so I can’t compare the quality and prices of today’s restaurants to those of 20 years ago. And although there are many great places with menus of 30 € or less, you definitely need to do your homework. If you were to blindly choose a place, you stand a good chance of being under whelmed.

Recently I went to le Bis de Severo in the 14th. The coté de bœuf was possibly the best beef I have had in Paris. I sometimes find that the beef here can be tough but this was amazingly tender and flavorful. We asked our waiter what made the beef so remarkable and he said that the owner is also trained as a butcher and that he ages his beef himself for an additional period of time. What ever he does, it works. The coté de boeuf was the most expensive thing on the menu, but the over all bill was still only 50€ each for three-courses and two bottles of wine, which is pretty reasonable I think.

Other places that I have really liked which fit into this category include Le Pré Verre, La Bistral, Le Troquet, Les Papilles, Le Timbre, Les Temps aux Temps, La Cerisier, Le Baratin, Chez Michel, La Régalade, la Boulangerie, Fish, Carte Blanche, Le Comptoir, le Sot y Laisse. L’Avant Gout. I’m sure there are others that I am forgetting. And there are a few that I would still love to try—Abadache, l’Ami Marcel, L’Ami Jean, and the new Table de Claire, to name just a few.

www.parisnotebook.wordpress.com

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John-

(Maybe you're right about Helen Darroze; I shouldn't judge from one meal. Maybe I got lucky. Though, please, ye gods, I hope I didn't just get lucky at Anne-Sophie Pic's place in Valence. One time and I'm dying to go back. Do you know it? Which all means I'm guilty of what I was trying to attack with the "always frequent", etc. And this post will probably die a natural death long after I get around to defining my terms. My mistake.)

My perspective is probably eccentric. Some of the many wierdnesses of that perspective:

We dine out in Paris 3-4 times per week. Midrange for us is well under 100 euros for 2 without wine. More like 60-70. If the myriad Café-Brasserie and bargain joints average 30-40 euros for 2, and that constitutes the baseline, then it seems a fair usage of the term. But I admit it really does all depend on what your expectations are....

The old adage, I believe it was Brillat Savarin's, about composing a meal around the wine and never the inverse is one we take quite seriously. We always have at least 2 wines. often 3. The wine list isn't an accessory for us. This often poses a problem. A restaurant that doesn't have anything decent by the glass necessitates 2 bottles, another--many of the higher-end of the midrange spectrum are frequently culprits--that charges mark-ups upwards of 5 on their wine rapidly becomes too expensive however good the food. And so on. But I can't talk about midrangeprices including wine because what we order changes radically in the same restaurant. Three times at Le Charlain this week where the price is 31 euros pp for entree+plat+dessert we paid 80, 167 and something like 220 for our 2 person share. But I WANTED that Chambolle Musigny and the Vieux Telegraphe, and the apple pie wouldn't have been worthwhile without the Layon.... Maybe I'll blame that last bill on the Chablis vielles vignes as an apero. The aperitif will kill you every time.

So, on reflection, I expect my irritation with the pricier suggestions is probably just my own little solipsistic problem.

I'll leave you with the probably apocryphal story of Brillat-Savarin's sister's dying words, "Bring me the dessert quickly, I feel I'm about to go".

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Tatin-

I'd be curious to know what you didn't like about L'Enoteca. I've taken a lot of people most of whom have gone back.... The 2 serious complaints I've heard are 1) from someone with a big appetite; the portions can be small and the price adds up fast if you start adding courses and do, say antipasti, pasta, meat or fish, cheese and dessert. and 2) The service can, occasionnally, border on rudely incompetant.

Was it something like that?

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