Chef's Table at Louis XV

[cabrales]

While I have no desire to sit at Ducasse's chef's table at Louis XV, Serge Dansereau's "Food & Friends. A chef's journey through France and Italy" notes the approximate location of such table:

"Alain Ducasse had organised for us to eat in a small alcove directly facing the kitchen. To eat here was an enormous privilege. As in the tradiion of the past, La Table du chef is reserved for the chef's friends and the food press, or is the site for regular menu tastings assisted by the chef's key staff. . . . La table due chef (aptly named 'the fish bowl' by the garcons) . . . ."

Have any members been seated in the described location?

[robert brown]

No. nor would I want to be. Not being able to watch the execution of service, observe life in the dining room, and see what other people are eating takes away a substantial source of the experience of dining in a great restaurant. The chef's table is the worst concept to have come down the fine dining pike in years. It is full of pretense. It reminds me of that old sign you used to see in men's rooms:" Don't throw your cigarette butts in the toilet, you don't pee in the ashtray."

[Bux]

I'm inclined to agree with Robert on this. To take a table in the kitchen rather than the dining room seems to miss the point of going to a restaurant. I am however, willing to rethink my position and in doing so I am far less inclined to be completely dismissive. It changes the dynamic for sure. For one thing it shifts the focus from the dinng experience to a, perhaps, more food centered experience. You give up the pleasure of the theater of the dining room, for the theater of the kitchen. Let's not negate the appeal of voyeurism--the appeal of being able to view what had previously been hidden from view, what's still inaccessible to others and that which may have long aroused your curiosity.

I won't deny the perversity, but that's part of voyeurism isn't it. There may well be a morality about this which doesn't interest me. The kitchen table can also be seen in light of JD's post in the Season of the Switch - Part Three where he cites The Financial Times economist Peter Martin in A homely challenge to branding where Martin speaks of new trends in spending at the higher end.

"... a broader trend in which people are increasingly purchasing 'experiences' rather than goods per se.

...

- Many of the experiences they seek are 'positional', i.e. conferring status."

[cabrales]

To clarify, not all chef's tables are in the kitchen. There are obviously chef's kitchen tables, as in Gordon Ramsay -- Claridge's or Trotter's. However, there are sometimes chef's tables that are not in the kitchen, and the Louis XV tables sounds like a table that is proximate to, but not actually in, the kitchen.

[Bux]

I believe Le Bernardin (NYC) has a table with a glass wall separating it from the kitchen and no view of the regular dining room.

[cabrales]

Bux -- Do you know if the table is available to all diners?

[Bux]

Cabrales, I do not know, but I believe it may be reserved by any diner willing to guarantee a certain number of diners. I do not recall the size of the table nor how many diners it would comfortably accommodate.

[Jonathan Day]

You give up the pleasure of the theater of the dining room, for the theater of the kitchen. Let's not negate the appeal of voyeurism--the appeal of being able to view what had previously been hidden from view, what's still inaccessible to others and that which may have long aroused your curiosity.

This is what I find so appealing about dining at a chef's table. It's not a substitute for dining in the restaurant, it's a complement.

The atmosphere in a working kitchen, even in a fairly humble restaurant, is completely different to that in a dining room. In my experience it is pleasurable and educational to experience both. After spending time in the kitchen at Caldesi it was great to take a colleague to dinner there. I knew how dishes we were eating had been made; I knew what the cooks were worried about in getting them right.

My "unthinkable thought" for a restaurant like Ducasse or Ramsay would be (1) to dine in the dining room; (2) to spend time in the kitchen, ideally on a shortish stage but perhaps at a chef's table; (3) to dine again in the dining room ... all experiences reasonably close together. But then I like to cook as much as I like to eat wonderful food.

For a pure (non-cook) eater I suppose the other benefit of a chef's table is that you would most likely be sent interesting dishes "just to taste" that might or might reach your table in the dining room.

[Michael Laiskonis]

We have a kitchen table in our restaurant...

The table seats up to eight and is located a mere eight to ten feet from the 'passe', and another eight to ten feet from my pastry area. Anything 'undesirable', like the dish area and service station are hidden from view. Our kitchen is 'open' though situated on the lower level, directly beneath the dining room. For example, we have additional seating for groups up to tewnty-four on the other side of my area, and the restrooms are located on this lower level as well. Guests are often given tours or encouraged simply to take a look on their own.

As for the 'chef's table', when the chemistry is right, it can make for a great evening, for both guests and kitchen staff as well. The menu is conceived earlier that day, taking into account frequency of visits and any allergies/requests (these are asked for well in advance). Most often we are given complete freedom. We have, however, seen it all... vegan, only raw food, only cooked food, celiac, no carb diets, etc... Cost for food starts at $125 per person, a bargain! Wine is chosen by the guest/host upon arrival- we house reds and whites in separate glass-walled rooms that flank the entrance to the main dining room (the meal begins with a full tour of the wine rooms). From there, guests are led down to the kitchen. The meal generally follows as such:

-Amuse or flight of three to four amuses

-A caviar or sashimi dish

-A cold, usually fish or shellfish, course

-A hot course- foie, for example

-An intermezzo- sorbet, foam, cold soup, etc.

-Fish Course

-Occasionally a hot/cold salad

- The "Main" course

-Assortment of cheese, usually French, with a few Spanish or domestic. We don't do a rolling cart; I simply choose from the day's assortment and serve it plated. On a few occasions, I've done a composed cheese course, but I think guests enjoy the description of several cheeses- where they are from, how they are produced...

-Dessert starts at four courses, though, if the feeling is right, I'll feed them all night!

-A 'pre-dessert' in the form of a soup, a pannacotta-type custard, etc.

-A cold or warm fruit based dessert

- 'The egg'... never on the menu- a little VIP/repeat diner/chef's table treat. An empty egg shell filled with a milk chocolate creme brulee, warm liquid caramel, caramel foam, maple syrup and fleur de sel.

- A warm or cold chocolate dessert

- Mignardises. Five to seven little bites...

While the table has its own server, each course is served and descibed by a member of the kitchen staff (apart from executive chef, we have three sous chefs, each responsible for a portion of the kitchen). With the table's proximity to the 'passe', interested guests can see all of the food as it is finished. Same goes with pastry. All of the table's desserts are plated fully in view. In addition, it is not uncommon for people to get up, walk around, and ask questions. We emphasize a degree of informality (take off the jackets and ties), and the sense that they are joining us in the heart and soul of the restaurant,

We are lucky in that, more often than not, the table attracts serious food lovers, though we do get the occasional corporate/ business dinner or non-foodie big spender. Overall it gives us an opportunity to create some off-the-menu fare and share some meaningful interaction with the guests. For me personally, it requires my staff to have discipline in cleanliness, demeanor, etc., but it also has polished my table service, my public speaking skills, and well, I've had the opportunity to taste a lot of amazing wine to boot!

Le Bernardin's table is indeed separate from the kitchen, as is Tru's. I'm trying to picture the table at Citronelle- is the glass between the table and the rest of the dining room, or betwwen the table and the kitchen?

Would I be interested, as a cook, in such an experience? I think it would depend on the restaurant and the menu format. My guess is that Cerutti would be doing off -the -menu stuff for the table at Louis XV. I would do that in a heartbeat. But would I want to see/hear Ramsey or Trotter yell at some poor cook? That might be uncomfortable.

[Steve Klc]

Michael--welcome back! The chef's table at Citronelle in DC is a long rectangle, one side has banquette seating, it's on the floor of the kitchen, running parallel to the passe and separated from the dining room by a glass panel--so you are submerged right in the kitchen. Very exclusive--it is not a substitute for dining in the restaurant but a wholly other experience and its status is very positional.

Though I am not a fan of Michel Richard for any number of reasons currently, the best food I've ever had in my life was a few years ago when I was seated at his chef's table--in the company of about a dozen other chefs, most of them French--while he was in the kitchen, supervising our every dish. After a glorious, impeccable meal, when Michel sat down next to a few of the wives and started drawing cartoons and caricatures, the added value of his chef's table was made clear.

[lizziee]

"I'm trying to picture the table at Citronelle- is the glass between the table and the rest of the dining room, or between the table and the kitchen?"

The chef's table at Citronelle is in the kitchen, right next to the glass that separates the dining room from the kitchen. It is approximately 15 feet, give or take, from the passe. The table is a beautiful, polished wood French farm table that lends an informal "country" feel.

Michel Richard never has to worry about anyone seeing his kitchen. It is spotless. At Citrus, in LA, it was also an open kitchen, but with no chef's table.

Unlike, Steve, I am a huge fan of Michel Richard. I think his creativity is exceptional, his passion as strong, his commitment total and his quest for the best, the best. He is a chef completely deserving of the acclaim he receives and the respect of every chef you speak to both in the States and in France.

[Steve Klc]

If that were so demonstrably true Lizziee--why hasn't Michel ever retained a pastry chef with significant talent for a significant length of time--as one would expect of such an universally acclaimed, respected chef?

Have you found chefs more or less likely than doctors to speak with candor and honestly assess their colleagues?

[Gary Marshall]

i recently dined at comme chez soi in brussels and after booking heard about their kitchen table, i emailed and requested it thinking it to be a Claridges style table. I expected it to be booked up, as i didn't get another reply from the restaurant. I was surprised and pleased to be met at the door and told 'oh , you wanted the kitchen table , follow me' . We went through the kitchen past the pass, through pastry to a long corridor where approx 30 diners were sat! It was like a long refrectory table and although service wasn't in anyway compromised what little i could see of the kitchen didn't make up i felt, from the usual 'interest' of being in a fine dining room and watching the evening unfold. I'll be careful what i wish for next time!

i believe claridges is more interesting as i understand (from the staff at rhr) that you get a custom menu and a chef to serve you and explain the process behind the dishes.

[cabrales]

i believe claridges is more interesting as i understand (from the staff at rhr) that you get a custom menu and a chef to serve you and explain the process behind the dishes.

Has any member eaten at the chef's table at Gordon Ramsay, Claridge's (London) or Charlie Trotter's (Chicago), or in Boulud's "sky box" at Daniel (NY)?

mlpc -- As you may know, Takashi Yagihashi of your restaurant is one of the Food & Wine Best New Chef "alumns" scheduled to participate in a Chicago-based event later this year:

http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?ac...45786af01f0b750

[Michael Laiskonis]

Cabrales, it is indeed a great lineup for the event at Trio. I can only hope that I'll be invited to tag along!

I used to work with a former Trotter's sous chef, but I've forgotten most of the interesting stories he had to tell. Is anyone familiar with the battle Charlie had with the Health Department over having the kitchen table? I believe it got some press several years ago...

[lizziee]

I wouldn't ask a doctor of his or her opinion about another doctor, but I might want to know who they use as their doctor? Many, many chefs make a point of going to Citronelle, including Adria.

Michel Richard is passionate about food; he is demanding and expects that same committment from his staff. But the bottom line for me is that I have had some of the finest meals ever at Citrus (when Michel Richard was in Los Angeles) and Citronelle in D.C.

To return to the question at hand, the chef's table at Citronelle is much like what Michael describes at his restaurant. Michael, your description sounds like a wonderful experience and one that deserves to be a "destination restaurant." I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Paris.

[cabrales]

Cabrales, it is indeed a great lineup for the event at Trio. I can only hope that I'll be invited to tag along!

Michael -- The line-up for the NY "mirror" event at Blue Hill is wonderful too -- see NY forum.