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Commercial Ranges @ Home


bigcat39
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After looking at Blue Star, DCS, et. al, I started looking at commercial stuff..... mind you, we are doing the kitchen in pure commercial style. It fits us.

Anyways, you can get a 60" range with 2 convection ovens, a griddle, 6 burners, and a SALAMANDER! for less than $1 1/2 large. Which won't buy me anything in the expensive residential lines.

Dissent? Comments?

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I had a commercial Wolf Stove and was never able to install it because it required specially-designed firewalls and hoods. I was a renter but if I owned and was re-doing my kitchen, than there is no reason not to...

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You do have to have the walls, ceiling and floor to the same code as commercial, otherwise your insurance will not cover ANY damage that might be caused by the stove.

You also have to have an exhaust system that can handle the higher temps. I have a commercial oven and had to have one installed which included a bigger flue (two actually) and the exhaust hood has to be slightly larger than the stovetop surface. I don't recall exactly how much but figure the size of the stove and add a bit. You can't have any wood cabinets above the range or next to it. There has to be several inches clearance.

I had a big Garland in my house in the Valley and had stainless steel cabinets on each side of it.

I also had to have a fire extinguisher in a wall-mount bracket no more than 5 feet from the range and we had to have an exit door at the closed end of the kitchen because the insurance rater felt that if someone was in that end of the kitchen and the stove was on fire they would be trapped there. Of course things may have changed since then, it was 25 years ago, but there were more expenses than I realized in the beginning. However I loved it.

We also had to get a bigger gas line and a new meter which we paid for. Regular residential gas lines do not have the capacity to fuel a commercial range.

"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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You know how hot commercial kitchens are?

You know how much heat a commercial stove puts out?

You know how noisy all that extraction is?

Its OK if you are in a commercial kitchen and doing the numbers, but firing all that up just to cook for one or two or boil an egg is overkill.

You are using the wrong tool - its a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Commercial kit is also designed to turned on and mostly left on - ovens and flat-tops take time to heat and cool

Much better to get a range designed for domestic use - I'm a fan of the AGA, but you love or loathe them. Either that or get a domestic stove for everyday and a separate commercial kitchen for when you are really entertaining.

Edited by jackal10 (log)
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We also had to get a bigger gas line and a new meter which we paid for.  Regular residential gas lines do not have the capacity to fuel a commercial range.

Yes - get ready to pay a much higher utility bill as well. Commercial ranges use a lot more gas than residential ones.

When I checked into this for myself, I quickly realized that there was a significant investment involved. I'll stick with my residential Wolf 6-burner - it hasn't failed me yet!

________________

Stu Fisher - Owner

Tastee Cheese

www.tasteecheese.com

stu@tasteecheese.com

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"Commercial Ranges @ Home, I KNOW I'm crazy, but......"

You haven't done your research. Installation of a commercial range without the proper installation to commercial standards and building code approval is a violation of NFPA standards and will void your homeowners insurance as well as probably burn down your home.

As other have already posted, there is a LOT more to installing a commercial range than one might think.

I am a Nuclear Engineer and was both a Fire Captain and later Fire Marshal for Nuclear Power Plants.

I installed a Viking. -Dick

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I have had a 60" US Range for more than 15 years. Two ovens, 6 burners and griddle. I should have put a salamander where the griddle is but my wife argued for the one level top that the grill permitted and I didn't push it.

The pluses: It works like a charm. I just had my first service call on it this week. A burner pilot wasn't working and the line had to be blown out. I don't know that I could ever go back to something less than a full sized oven. It is extremely easy to clean because it comes apart so easily. Of course, there is no "self cleaning" feature -- I am the self.

The issues: You have to consider ventilation -- and the routing of the vent lines. You might even consider separate make up air so you don't suck all your heated or cooled air out of the house. Installing to code is a royal pain. Temperature control in the room can also be a problem. (I have a separate zone just for the kitchen.)

My range has 10 pilots running all the time. The ovens sit around 130 fully cooled. Even when it is off it generates a lot of heat. I am not sure I would want a commercial unit in a house with smallish children.

Any more questions, ask away.

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"Commercial Ranges @ Home, I KNOW I'm crazy, but......"

You haven't done your research. Installation of a commercial range without the proper installation to commercial standards and building code approval is a violation of NFPA standards and will void your homeowners insurance as well as probably burn down your home.

As other have already posted, there is a LOT more to installing a commercial range than one might think.

I am a Nuclear Engineer and was both a Fire Captain and later Fire Marshal for Nuclear Power Plants.

I installed a Viking. -Dick

I'm an engineer, too. Even if I buy a used hood w/ makeup air, I can still make out on the deal. I've seen 72" makeup hoods in working but dirty condition go for $200 @ auction. As the kitchen is basically new construction, I think I can reach NFPA standards fairly economically.

I think the newer models are electronic ignition, but I agree, this is probably overkill. Sooooo, I'm probably going to end up with a quality cooktop of some sort, a consumer wall oven, and a Cadco countertop convection.

Sigh, I really love those big burners, though..... I cooked line for a time, and they are addictive.

Thanks for all the responses and insight, all.

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After looking at Blue Star, DCS, et. al, I started looking at commercial stuff..... mind you, we are doing the kitchen in pure commercial style. It fits us.

Anyways, you can get a 60" range with 2 convection ovens, a griddle, 6 burners, and a SALAMANDER! for less than $1 1/2 large. Which won't buy me anything in the expensive residential lines.

Dissent? Comments?

Bigcat, I've got a bad case of the "Iwannas," too, as I pick out a range for the kitchen. I just spent a week trying to figure out how I was going to pull off just what you describe. Snif. Some of the commercial ranges have no warranty if they're installed in a home which to me is minor compared to the code problems and the insurance problems. Plus, I've got to have a dual-fuel range, and commercial models only have gas (I don' like gas ovens).

So, it's looking like Wolf or Viking here. I would love to have a 60" and maybe I will. Two full-sized ovens ... sweet!

"Oh, tuna. Tuna, tuna, tuna." -Andy Bernard, The Office
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I dug around in my old records and finally found the information on the Garland - this was in 1969.

The stove was a real bargain at 1235.00 it had two ovens, both large enough for standard sheet pans. 8 top buners and the combination salamander/flat top grill - the grill was 6 inches higher than the burner tops. 72 inches overall length, However the DEPTH from front to back was 42 inches because this one had a deck "well" behind the burners and a built on back piece with a shelf/plate warmer above that was just above my eye level and I am 5'6".

Because of the height of the grill, we had the floor dropped for the stove (floor was brick) so the legs that were about 6 inches tall were set down into the cutout. This also made it easier for me to work with big stockpots on the burners but meant I had to bend further to put stuff in and out of the ovens.

The work on the floors, walls and ceiling, not including the exhaust system and the stainless cabinets, cost a little over $5000.00 and my husband was in the building trades so we got significant discounts. The stainless steel hood and exhaust system were built in place by a sheet metal specialist who did only that kind of work and it cost $2700. plus the motors,filters and the roof thingies that spun around. This was in 1969 dollars. I have no idea how much it would cost today.

We also had an additional through-the-wall air conditioning unit, 60,000 BTU just for the kitchen because the central air couldn't cope with the heat output. I don't remember what we paid for that and it isn't in the folder with the rest of the kitchen stuff.

We happened to have an extremely large kitchen, we had a large family and needed it. I was doing some work in the food business and we could write some of it off on our taxes. This was before the laws on food handling got so restrictive.

"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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just to reiterate what everyone else said in anectodal form:

remember when everyone was holding their breath for per se to open in the time warner center in new york city? well, it opened for about a month...and then closed for two months...the reason? their walls weren't built to code and they had their commercial ranges/ovens working which started a fire...

just be really careful who you choose to do your work. i assume these guys were used to building restaurants and they didn't do it right...imagine a residential contractor trying to figure out what you'll need.

but it seems you've already made up your mind.

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Check out Imperial's at home line. I bought mine six years ago and have been thrilled. I found it to be very reasonable (can't remember how much) in comparison to Viking and Wolf. I got the unit with two large ovens, six burners, a griddle and broiler. It looks just like the Imperial at our favorite restaurant except it has the proper insullation for a home.

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When I was planning and remodeling my kitchen circa 1990, Superior Products carried both the Wolf Residential and Wolf Commercial stoves. They had a Residential model that had the 24" raised griddle with broiler underneath, 6 burners and two full sized ovens. It had built-in 3" insulation all around and was permitted to be butted right up to your home walls. As I recall, it had all the power of the Commercial model but with the addition of the insulation. While it was more than twice the price of the commerical equivalent, I only had room for 48", and I didn't want to go with their 36" model, so I ended up with a Thermador Professional gas Cooktop and an electric wall oven.

Now, Wolf sold off the Residential division to Subzero, and the residential version of the commercial powered stove is no longer available.

In retrospect, the puny power of the 15K BTU burners on the Thermador and the absolute crummy Dacor electric wall oven, I should have forgone the pleasure of a "nice looking kitchen" and made room for the 60" Residential Wolf while it was still available!

Now I'm thinking of moving to a place that has a commercial kitchen on the first floor restaurant and living quarters above! :) (not really, but I do dream about having the commercial power and resultant cooking ability that kind of power would provide).

doc

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I had a big Garland in my house in the Valley...[

The last place I lived (a rental apartment) had an old Garland--a residential version, installed decades before they discontinued making non-commercial ranges--and I loved it, even though it was old. The burner configuration is really efficient. It's why Blue Star is high on my list of "wish list" ranges--it's the Garland under a new name. And 22K burners are the highest I've seen among other residential models. Good ventilation required.


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I dug around in my old records and finally found the information on the Garland - this was in 1969.

The stove was a real bargain at 1235.00.....

Bargain!?

Wasn't that the price of an average new car?

Altogether you spent around $75k in today's dollars?

Edited to say WOW!

Edited by ChefCrash (log)
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I dug around in my old records and finally found the information on the Garland - this was in 1969.

The stove was a real bargain at 1235.00.....

Bargain!?

Wasn't that the price of an average new car?

Altogether you spent around $75k in today's dollars?

Edited to say WOW!

I don't think it's quite that bad. I bought my first new car in 1971 - a Mercury Cougar - and it was about $3000. But it's pretty bad :smile: .

I don't have much to add about the commercial/non-commercial dispute except to say that if you're over a certain age - and cook a fair amount - it's really nice to have wall ovens so you don't have to bend over a lot (I have double 30" wall ovens in the middle of the wall - not too high - not too low - and I think they're great). Robyn

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When I rehabbed a shell back in 1982, I pretty much built my kitchen around a six burner Garland with a salamander (broiler) overhead. I put in a restaurant hood, have a quarry tile floor and the back wall is ceramic tile. Insurance company inspected the property - three times as I have changed insurance companies - and none of the inspectors even asked about it. But they can't claim they weren't aware of it. It's in the pics they took.

As much as I love my Garland and especially its salamander, my pride and joy piece of restaurant equipment is a goose neck rinse hose hovering over my sink. These are usually part of a commercial dish washing area and are a hundred times better than the typical home sink rinse hose.

Holly Moore

"I eat, therefore I am."

HollyEats.Com

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Hi Robyn

I don't think it's quite that bad. I bought my first new car in 1971 - a Mercury Cougar - and it was about $3000. But it's pretty bad smile.gif .

Mercury Cougar was not an average car. In 78 for graduation I got a new Ford Comet for $4000. Now that's an average car. :raz:

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I dug around in my old records and finally found the information on the Garland - this was in 1969.

The stove was a real bargain at 1235.00.....

Bargain!?

Wasn't that the price of an average new car?

Altogether you spent around $75k in today's dollars?

Edited to say WOW!

That price included delivery and installation of the stove, AFTER we did all the prep for it. And my '67 Town & Country station wagon was a lot more. (and had a lot more horsepower).

Edited by andiesenji (log)

"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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As much as I love my Garland and especially its salamander, my pride and joy piece of restaurant equipment is a goose neck rinse hose hovering over my sink.  These are usually part of a commercial dish washing area and are a hundred times better than the typical home sink rinse hose.

At 3 times the price :wink:

Get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie!!!

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I had a big Garland in my house in the Valley...[

The last place I lived (a rental apartment) had an old Garland--a residential version, installed decades before they discontinued making non-commercial ranges--and I loved it, even though it was old. The burner configuration is really efficient. It's why Blue Star is high on my list of "wish list" ranges--it's the Garland under a new name. And 22K burners are the highest I've seen among other residential models. Good ventilation required.

Good timing for this thread. After living without a hood for four years (!) I am pricing Blue Star ranges. I would just get the 30 inch combo, but it seems like a pretty nice stove. It would have two 22,000 BTU burners and two 15,000 BTU burners, convection oven, and a 1850 degree broiler.

Anyone have one of these? I am feeling like they might be a bit better quality than Wolf or Viking.

Rosengarten on the BS brand:

http://www.prizer-painter.com/pages/articlepageone.html

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Anyone have one of these? I am feeling like they might be a bit better quality than Wolf or Viking.

Rosengarten on the BS brand:

http://www.prizer-painter.com/pages/articlepageone.html

I don't have one...yet :wink: On paper, their specs are better than Viking or Wolf. But I haven't done a test drive yet.

The most obsessive discussion of Blue Star ranges I've found is on the Garden Web Appliance Forum. At the moment, they are up to thread #19 devoted solely to Blue Star. Posts vary in usefulness, everything from hands-on experience with the range to installation issues. Most of what I read makes me want one.


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Anyone have one of these? I am feeling like they might be a bit better quality than Wolf or Viking.

Rosengarten on the BS brand:

http://www.prizer-painter.com/pages/articlepageone.html

I don't have one...yet :wink: On paper, their specs are better than Viking or Wolf. But I haven't done a test drive yet.

The most obsessive discussion of Blue Star ranges I've found is on the Garden Web Appliance Forum. At the moment, they are up to thread #19 devoted solely to Blue Star. Posts vary in usefulness, everything from hands-on experience with the range to installation issues. Most of what I read makes me want one.

Thanks for the Garden Web tip. Just makes me want one more...

Happy cooking!

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Hi,

I have a Blue Star 6 burner range. I LOVE it. I did a kitchen renovation this past summer, and prior to buying the Blue Star I read David Rosengarten's piece on ranges, the Garden Web threads, and everything else I could find. I shopped all the major brands, and kept coming back to the Blue Star.

They are not sold everywhere, but worth searching out. I bought the floor model at Paul's appliances in Newark, NJ. With the 3% UEZ sales tax, and a discount for buying the floor model, I paid about 2,500.00 for the range.

I think it was a great investment. I given the range quite a few good workouts, it takes a real beating and works like a charm. I love the open burners, I know some people think cleaning is a problem, I do not. The convection oven is great for baking, and even though it is gas, I find that it maintains temp really well.

Hope this helps!

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