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Random Egyptian food questions


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Last night I was working on a fatta recipe and got around to the tahina sauce. It called for vinegar. Err.. what type of vinegar? My cookbook doesn't say. After some thought I eliminated apple cider vinegar (don't remember seeing apples in Egypt), wine vinegar of either color (although this seemed a possibility), and standard white vinegar (yech) and went with cane vinegar. Given the importance of sugar cane in Egypt, this seemed the most likely type of vinegar they'd use, but I wish I'd checked recently. Does anyone know?

Once again I marveled at and lusted after the lemons. They aren't Meyer lemons, and they aren't our standard Eureka lemons. They're quite a bit sweeter than our Eurekas but lack the floral quality of the Meyers, and they're smaller than either. (I can get a reasonable facsimile of the juice by blending Meyer and Eureka juices, but it still isn't the same.) I think they're just characterized as "limoon baladi" (country lemons) by the vendors, but don't quote me on that. I'd love to know (a) what variety lemon is grown there, and (b) whether that variety is grown in the U.S.A. somewhere. Can anyone help me?

Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

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"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)
"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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I have questions for your questions!

I had no idea what fatta was so I looked it up in Claudia Roden's The New Book of Middle Eastern Food and found a few types, and then I went through it looking for tahina sauces--and none of the recipes call for vinegar. In fact, all of the tahina sauces call for lemon juice when incorporating an acid.

What sort of fatta are you making? They sound wonderful!

Also, I second the lemon question.

And are there any particularly good Egyptian cookbooks?

"She would of been a good woman," The Misfit said, "if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life."

--Flannery O'Connor, "A Good Man is Hard to Find"

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I have questions for your questions!

I had no idea what fatta was so I looked it up in Claudia Roden's The New Book of Middle Eastern Food and found a few types, and then I went through it looking for tahina sauces--and none of the recipes call for vinegar. In fact, all of the tahina sauces call for lemon juice when incorporating an acid.

What sort of fatta are you making? They sound wonderful!

Also, I second the lemon question.

And are there any particularly good Egyptian cookbooks?

This particular recipe was one of two called "fatta shamy". As I understand it, the name comes from the holiday when it's most likely to be made. Considering the amount of work that went into it (I am not an efficient cook) I can see why it's more of a holiday or party meal! Anyway, both fatta shamy recipes involved chicken (the meat and the broth). Elsewhere in the cookbook is another fatta recipe that calls for beef, but I haven't tried that one yet.

The tahina sauce was a mixture of tahina, lemon juice, vinegar, and yogurt, with a seasoning of cumin and salt, with water to thin if necessary. (It wasn't, since my tahina was pretty runny.) I may be calling the sauce by the wrong name, since it also included yogurt, but I needed to call it something for the purposes of this post.

So far I have two specifically Egyptian cookbooks that I like. The one I was using last night is called "Tastes of Egypt", or maybe it's "Flavors of Egypt", and it's a lovely and fairly low-production-cost book put together using recipes from women all over the country. Think of a very large locally-produced book from your favorite church group, and you'll have the idea of the format. The funds went to help the women and children of the villages, as I recall. I got it at the American University in Cairo (AUC). The book promises a second edition, but I haven't been able to locate it. If you want more information I'll post the production info when I get a chance to look at the book again. The other Egyptian cookbook I have is one I just picked up: "Egyptian Cooking, the English edition". (The same book is available in French, German and who knows what other languages.) I think it may be an AUC production, but I'd have to look again to be sure. I picked it up because it had recipes the other book didn't have, and had photos to boot. No vocabulary, though. "Tastes of Egypt" has a fairly detailed vocabulary list with actual spellings as well as phonetic spellings, both in Arabic and English.

Edited to add: the title of the book is Flavors of Egypt from city and country kitchens, by Susan Torgersen. It may be out of print.

Edited by Smithy (log)

Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

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"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)
"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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oooh, vinegar in Tahina sauce saounds very odd to me. Only lemon juice goes in it. But for all I know things in Egypt could be different.

Well, keep in mind that this is a mixture of tahina and yogurt for the fatta recipe, so I may have used the wrong turn. Otherwises - perhaps this is evidence of unique Egyptian cuisine? I don't know. None of my other cookbooks - except the Claudia Roden book mentioned above - has any fatta recipes. In the Egyptian book from which I was cooking, both fatta shamy recipes used vinegar in addition to lemon in the tahina/yogurt sauce. The other fatta recipe, which uses beef, did not - but it added tomato sauce.

So, broadening the question a bit: what type(s) of vinegar would be likely to be used in Egypt? What about in the Maghreb? The Mashreq?

I'd still like to know what variety of lemon is grown in Egypt. So far I haven't found any definitive answer online. I'm sure some horticulturists has figured it out, but I don't know where to look.

Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

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"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)
"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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I just looked up Egyptian Cooking: A Practical Guide by Samia Abdennour (also American University in Cairo Press).

Her tahina also has vinegar in it.

So then I did a quick internet search for Egyptian tahina recipes. They all mentioned vinegar. Usually this was just a little vinegar, with the main souring agent being lemon juice.

Most simply gave 'vinegar' as the ingredient with being more specific. But when a vinegar type was actually mentioned the most frequent was white vinegar, white wine vinegar appeared a few times, and red wine vinegar was mentioned once.

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oooh, vinegar in Tahina sauce saounds very odd to me. Only lemon juice goes in it. But for all I know things in Egypt could be different.

Well, keep in mind that this is a mixture of tahina and yogurt for the fatta recipe, so I may have used the wrong turn. Otherwises - perhaps this is evidence of unique Egyptian cuisine? I don't know. None of my other cookbooks - except the Claudia Roden book mentioned above - has any fatta recipes. In the Egyptian book from which I was cooking, both fatta shamy recipes used vinegar in addition to lemon in the tahina/yogurt sauce. The other fatta recipe, which uses beef, did not - but it added tomato sauce.

So, broadening the question a bit: what type(s) of vinegar would be likely to be used in Egypt? What about in the Maghreb? The Mashreq?

I'd still like to know what variety of lemon is grown in Egypt. So far I haven't found any definitive answer online. I'm sure some horticulturists has figured it out, but I don't know where to look.

The lemon cultivar you are referring to is known as the daq lemon (about the size of a golf ball). Fatta shamy means either "Syrian fatta" or "sun fatta." As far as vinegar goes in the Middle East, it would be either red or white, but lemon juice would be far more common for acidity.

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I just looked up Egyptian Cooking: A Practical Guide by Samia Abdennour (also American University in Cairo Press).

Her tahina also has vinegar in it.

So then I did a quick internet search for Egyptian tahina recipes. They all mentioned vinegar. Usually this was just a little vinegar, with the main souring agent being lemon juice.

Most simply gave 'vinegar' as the ingredient with being more specific. But when a vinegar type was actually mentioned the most frequent was white vinegar, white wine vinegar appeared a few times, and red wine vinegar was mentioned once.

So perhaps vinegar in tahina sauce is a particularly Egyptian twist. I'll have to ask my teacher how she makes it. I almost picked up one of both of Ms. Abdennour's books last week. Now I wish I had, in addition to the one I brought home. Heck, what's another couple of books?

The lemon cultivar you are referring to is known as the daq lemon (about the size of a golf ball).  Fatta shamy means either "Syrian fatta" or "sun fatta."  As far as vinegar goes in the Middle East, it would be either red or white, but lemon juice would be far more common for acidity.

Thank you for that information. Your description of the lemon's size is spot-on. Now I have a way to search for them in this country. As much as I love our standard lemons and Meyer lemons, I'd like to find a source of the daq lemons as well.

My cookbook says that fatta shamy is made to celebrate "Sham El Nessim, the holiday which welcomes in spring", so I'm thinking that in this case the word "shamy" refers to the sun.

Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

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"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)
"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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My cookbook says that fatta shamy is made to celebrate "Sham El Nessim, the holiday which welcomes in spring", so I'm thinking that in this case the word "shamy" refers to the sun.

:laugh: I'm afraid I have to disagree, but that name is really cute. First time I've heard of the dish, but "sham-el-nasim" literally means smelling the breeze. It is a common term for taking a stroll on a nice day. Shamy (not having seen the arabic, and assuming this is the correct origin) would then probably refer to the "smelling" part of the phrase.

Sun as you probably know is "Shams", but always appears with the "s" on the end.

Naseem/nasim/neseem means breeze, and is also a very nice boy's name, IMVHO.

Edited by Behemoth (log)
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My cookbook says that fatta shamy is made to celebrate "Sham El Nessim, the holiday which welcomes in spring", so I'm thinking that in this case the word "shamy" refers to the sun.

:laugh: I'm afraid I have to disagree, but that name is really cute. First time I've heard of the dish, but "sham-el-nasim" literally means smelling the breeze. It is a common term for taking a stroll on a nice day. Shamy (not having seen the arabic, and assuming this is the correct origin) would then probably refer to the "smelling" part of the phrase.

Sun as you probably know is "Shams", but always appears with the "s" on the end.

Naseem/nasim/neseem means breeze, and is also a very nice boy's name, IMVHO.

I do like the sound of that as a boy's name!

I'm just repeating what the cookbook writer said in her preface to the recipe, but of course she might have misunderstood. I did wonder about the lack of an 's' at the end of shams, but since I'm a bare beginner I figured I was missing something about converting from a noun to an adjective. The cookbook only gives Arabic for ingredients, in an appendix, so I don't know how that dish would be written either. Something else to ask my teacher!

Thanks for the information.

Edited to add: Thanks too for the tip on Sham el Nessim. I think we'll have to instigate this holiday around our house! Without the smelly fish, though. :laugh: I've smelled it. I'll stick to fatta. :raz:

Edited by Smithy (log)

Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

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"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)
"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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It's interesting about the holiday, I had never heard of it prior to this. I should correct my statement above by saying "sham el- hawa/sham el-nassim" in Lebanon at least would be understood as going out for a breath of fresh air. There are so many differences between the levant and egypt it is really kind of amazing to me sometimes. Maybe it is because as kids we were always fed the arab unity line (after all several countries share the egyptian flag) it is always a little weird when you realize these countries are really much less similar than you grew uo thinking. Anyway... :unsure:

I would have to look at the name as it is written in arabic to even presume to think I knew what it referred to. It's always funny when I read middle eastern news in arabic newspapers -- I always have this moment when I think, oh that's what the Times was referring to! :rolleyes:

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Oh, this is a little more interesting. It now sounds like fatta shams is indeed made for this holiday known as shamm al-nasim, which means literally "to breathe the breeze." It is in celebration of the winds that whip up in the spring. Another food popular for this holiday is fasikh a small salted fermented fish with a very strong odor popular in Egypt. Interestingly, this holiday of shamm al-nasim is a pagan holiday not a Muslim holiday and therefore not encouraged by clerics.

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In order to cut through all the guesses on this thread. Please note the following.

Fattah is a dish available in two countries namely Egypt and Syria.

The Egyptian version is stock based around tomatoes and flat Arabic bread while the Syrian is Yoghurt and bread based.

If your recipe is called Fattah Shamy. Then this has nothing to do with the word Sham=Smell or Shams=Sun but Shamy=Levant=Damascus.

The Fattah Shamy or Shamyah i.e. coming from Bilad al Sham, is a very famous local dish and is referred to in Damascuss as Tess'eeyeh.

In case your recipe is yoghurt based then it is referring to the Syrian Shami version.

Now stating that the Egyptians eat this dish as a Sham-el-Nessim speciality is risible and the author must have went on a great leap of faith to come up with this explanation. The Sham-el-Nessim celebration is to eat Fessikh + Green onions.

It is also important to correct a fallacy that Sham-el-Nessim is a "pagan holiday" as it is in fact a Coptic holiday linked to the Coptic Easter and derived from the Pharaonic times. In order to avoid politico-religious connotations, it is referred to as an Egyptian celebration of Spring.

I would be curious to know who is the author of the recipe and it would be helpful if you can post the recipe here.

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Well, perhaps I misunderstood what the cookbook writer said in her introduction to one of the two fatta shamy recipes. She wrote, "This recipe was given to me by two charming sisters at a party to celebrate Sham El Nessim, the holiday which welcomes in spring." I assumed that meant the recipe was especially for Sham El Nessim, but it really didn't say that, now, did it? It said the *party* was for Sham el Nessim. The other fatta shamy recipe doesn't have an introduction. Both fatta shamy recipes use chicken, chicken bouillion, onion, garlic, shamy bread, yogurt, and vinegar. From there they diverge: one uses rice, the other doesn't; one uses tahina and the other considers it optional; and so forth. You asked who gave the recipes. The two charming sisters at the party were Fifi El Sherif and Hoda Auf. The other fatta shamy recipe is credited to Hella Hashem.

Another recipe in this cookbook is simply called fatta. The introduction says, "Fatta is one of the most popular national dishes of Egypt. It is eaten on every important occasion such as Big Bairam, Religious feasts, weddings, etc." This fatta recipe, provided by Magda Barakat, calls for meat (veal, beef or lamb) OR chicken; it uses rice with broth; it uses Baladi breads (big pita); and it uses a garlic sauce with tomato. There is no yogurt or tahina in this particular recipe.

I don't feel right reproducing the recipes, since the book is copyrighted. The book itself is noted above in my earlier post.

Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
HosteG Forumsnsmith@egstaff.org

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"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " -- Ling (with permission)
"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown

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Smithy, as you no doubt already know it's hard even for native speakers to tell what's what when one is dealing with a transliteration. For example, my first thought was Damascus-style, but since fatteh is female and shamy is male it didn't sound quite right -- "fatteh of some guy from Damasus" -- and there was also the unusual use of vinegar. So then the assumption is either well they meant fatteh shamieh (damascus-style fatteh) or fettet-el-shammeh, which would make sense in reference to the holiday even if it was something I'd never heard of. We need to get arabic keyboards, I am really jealous of the asian threads' use of characters.

So -- did it taste good? I've never had fatteh with vinegar, or one without yogurt! (Then again, we all remember the cactus debacle so what do I know :wink:)

Edited by Behemoth (log)
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As an outsider to this thread, I was still interested to hear more about the vinegar. Can you shed more light on this, Nicolai, regarding the type of vinegar and also, if the use of it in this dish is relatively unique to Egypt or other areas?

As an aside, I'm somewhat surprised at the turn this thread quickly took. It initiallly seemed like people were offering their best faith information and educated guesses based on their experience and background. It didn't seem like anyone was claiming to be an expert on Eygptian cuisine. Further, it's great and should only be a win-win situation when someone else has more first hand knowledge or experience to share in a particular area or cuisine. I think contributions of this kind are warmly welcomed by all here.

"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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... Another recipe in this cookbook is simply called fatta.  The introduction says, "Fatta is one of the most popular national dishes of Egypt.  It is eaten on every important occasion such as Big Bairam, Religious feasts, weddings, etc."  This fatta recipe, provided by Magda Barakat, calls for meat (veal, beef or lamb) OR chicken; it uses rice with broth; it uses Baladi breads (big pita); and it uses a garlic sauce with tomato.  There is no yogurt or tahina in this particular recipe.

I don't feel right reproducing the recipes, since the book is copyrighted.  The book itself is noted above in my earlier post.

Fatta/fatah is commonly a beduin dish - cooked by the tribes to the west of/ interfacing with the Nile Valley. A very hearty dish, but much more simple that the variations being discussed in this thread. And, prepared not in relation to a particular holiday [necessarily] - but any important celebration or visit of a guest.

A lamb is usually slaughtered - sometimes a goat - the meat lopped into pieces, bone in, and simmered/boiled with spices [cardamon; garlic; maybe onion; pepper; salt]. When the meat begins to fall off the bone, pieces of bread are placed at the bottom of a large kettle, broth added - then, cooked rice; more broth then maybe more bread and broth and finally meat on top. How ingredients are added/layered is up to the cook.

The meat can be seared in semna with lots of garlic, then the water added.

In rural Egypt, I've never seen/eaten it with tomatoes in it. Nor with vinegar – but of course that doesn’t mean it’s not found.

Sometimes the dish is inverted onto a large, round tray, around which all gather with spoons and 'dig in' - or the casserole may be placed on a tray and everyone digs into that.

Not fancy, but very satisfying especially during the very cold winter months.

Many / most recipes in the Middle East cookbooks with which I'm familiar reflect urban food and not the 'common fare' of balady/ country folk. That's certainly not a criticism, but a critique on how our perceptions of who eats what in a region - and how it is cooked - can be tempered by these foody-origins.

On reproducing recipes - my understanding is that as long as the recipe is properly attributed/sited, it can be reproduced - as found on most foody lists. Any thoughts on this?

DianaBuja

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1- The type of lemons mostly available in Egypt were/are what is called Laimoun Banzahir. These are closer in taste and shape to limes than the Meyer or Eureka lemon variety. Of course oranges were available but Egypt was not known for its citrus crops quality or quantity and it was difficult and costly to source the yellow common variety.

2- I edited the recipe for ease of preparation and should read as follows:

Time of preparation: 60mn

Cooking Time: 60 mn

Difficulty (from 1 to 5) : 5

Ingredients for Kobeba Shami:

1/2 kg of ground meat (lamb or beef)

2 glasses of Burghul (cracked wheat)

1 large onion finely chopped

Salt and Pepper

1/2 glass of olive oil or frying oil (irrelevant as Kobeba eggs or balls or torpidos or whatever you wish to call them should be deep fried).

Ingredients for Stuffing:

1/4 kg of ground meat (lamb or beef)

Salt and Pepper

2 spoonful of olive oil or frying oil

1 large onion finely chopped

Almonds and Pine Kernels

Way of Preparation:

A) Stuffing:

Fry the meat in oil with the spices and the onion until done then add almond and Pine Kernels (you can lightly fry these and then add to the meat as an alternative).

B) Kobeba:

- Soak the Burghul in boiled water (2hrs) until soft and then drain any excess water. (I would advise to only wash the Burghul in cold water and not soak in boiled water). Some recipes call for a full soak and some for a wash. The difference is in the final product as to whether you like your kibbe with bite or smooth. Pounding the mixture with meat or cutting in a blender has also a similar effect and it is a matter of taste.

- Add the ground meat and other ingredients and mix or pound in a large mortar.

- Knead and divide the mixture to the size of an egg and flatten in the palm of your hand. Fill with the stuffing mixture and close the shell to form an elongated egg shape encasing the stuffing (torpido shape).

- Deep fry in oil and serve.

- Another option is to grease a baking pan with oil or ghee or butter then spread half of the Kobeba mixture as a base and spread the stuffing over it and spread and cover with the remaining Kobeba mixture.

Cut longitudinal parallel lines with the knife (only cut through the top layer), rotate the mold and cut again to form diamond shapes finally run your knife around the edge of the pan. Spread some butter or ghee or oil lightly on top and bake in moderate oven until done reddish brown color (approx 45mn @ 375F) and serve.

I should point out that this is a translation and adaptation of the recipe posted and by all means not the recommended recipe for Kibbe which can be found on any Lebanon food site or Syrian one. The difference is the Lebanese recipe is light, thin and crunchy while the Syrian one is heavier, more moist and thicker.

Horses for courses.

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1- The type of lemons mostly available in Egypt were/are what is called Laimoun Banzahir. These are closer in taste and shape to limes than the Meyer or Eureka lemon variety. Of course oranges were available but Egypt was not known for its citrus crops quality or quantity and it was difficult and costly to source the yellow common variety.

2- I edited the recipe for ease of preparation and should read as follows:

Time of preparation: 60mn

Cooking Time: 60 mn

Difficulty (from 1 to 5) : 5

Ingredients for Kobeba Shami:

1/2 kg of ground meat (lamb or beef)

2 glasses of Burghul (cracked wheat)

1 large onion finely chopped

Salt and Pepper

1/2 glass of olive oil or frying oil (irrelevant as Kobeba eggs or balls or torpidos or whatever you wish to call them should be deep fried).

Ingredients for Stuffing:

1/4 kg of ground meat (lamb or beef)

Salt and Pepper

2 spoonful of olive oil or frying oil

1 large onion finely chopped

Almonds and Pine Kernels

Way of Preparation:

A) Stuffing:

Fry the meat in oil with the spices and the onion until done then add almond and Pine Kernels (you can lightly fry these and then add to the meat as an alternative). 

B) Kobeba:

- Soak the Burghul in boiled water (2hrs) until soft and then drain any excess water. (I would advise to only wash the Burghul in cold water and not soak in boiled water). Some recipes call for a full soak and some for a wash. The difference is in the final product as to whether you like your kibbe with bite or smooth. Pounding the mixture with meat or cutting in a blender has also a similar effect and it is a matter of taste.

- Add the ground meat and other ingredients and mix or pound in a large mortar. 

- Knead and divide the mixture to the size of an egg and flatten in the palm of your hand. Fill with the stuffing mixture and close the shell to form an elongated egg shape encasing the stuffing (torpido shape).

- Deep fry in oil and serve.

- Another option is to grease a baking pan with oil or ghee or butter then spread half of the Kobeba mixture as a base and spread the stuffing over it and spread and cover with the remaining Kobeba mixture.

Cut longitudinal parallel lines with the knife (only cut through the top layer), rotate the mold and cut again to form diamond shapes finally run your knife around the edge of the pan. Spread some butter or ghee or oil lightly on top and bake in moderate oven until done reddish brown color (approx 45mn @ 375F) and serve.

I should point out that this is a translation and adaptation of the recipe posted and by all means not the recommended recipe for Kibbe which can be found on any Lebanon food site or Syrian one. The difference is the Lebanese recipe is light, thin and crunchy while the Syrian one is heavier, more moist and thicker.

Horses for courses.

Thanks for the translation. The last option is the one I'm most familiar with.

As for indigenous oranges vs. horticultual/market-oriented oranges, I take it you were referring to the latter.

OT - 'horses for courses' - are you a horse-person? Here in Burundi at our Cercle Hippique, we have but 31 horses left - that is all remaining in central Africa, where before the wars started a decade ago there were said to have been over 25,000 :sad: Not killed to eat, just general slaghter and attrition.

DianaBuja.

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So...I'm almost afraid to ask, but...is the laimoun shami supposed to be a Levantine lemon, or Damascus lemon? Or does shami mean something else in this case?

I'm glad to know I correctly remembered the laimoun baladi part.  That's what I thought I'd been told when I asked in the souq.

LoL. Yes the Laimoun Shami is the Levantine Lemon from Belad al Sham or in other terms the land of Damascus which is the Levant (Al Mashrek) as follows: Syria - Lebanon - Jordan - Palestine - Israel.

The Levant is originally from the French language of the verb "lever" and the "soleil levant" is the rising sun or where the sun rises Al Mashrek vs Al Maghreb (Morocco - Algeria...) where the sun sets.

Damascus being the city that dominates this vast area has thus inherited the appellation as the name is Dimashk al Sham.

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To elaborate further on the type of Lemons available in Egypt. The common yellow variety is refered to as Laimoun Baladi or Laimoun Shami (here is the Shami word again). You can also refer to Lemons as Laimoun Hamod or simply Hamod which means sour as opposed to Laimoun Bortocal which is Orange. However Hamod el Laimoun is not a fruit........Zzzzzz

I often buy jars of pickled Egyptian "Lemons", from their appearance aroma and flavour I would say that these are almost certainly limes. Is this simply a mistranslation of 'limun' (lime).

Edited by Adam Balic (log)
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To elaborate further on the type of Lemons available in Egypt. The common yellow variety is refered to as Laimoun Baladi or Laimoun Shami (here is the Shami word again). You can also refer to Lemons as Laimoun Hamod or simply Hamod which means sour as opposed to Laimoun Bortocal which is Orange. However Hamod el Laimoun is not a fruit........Zzzzzz

I often buy jars of pickled Egyptian "Lemons", from their appearance aroma and flavour I would say that these are almost certainly limes. Is this simply a mistranslation of 'limun' (lime).

Disclaimer: My knowledge of Egyptian language/dialect and food stems from hours and hours of watching Egyptian TV series and movies growing up in Lebanon. So, I am by no means an expert.

Like Nicolai mentioned earlier, the word for many citrus fruits is "Limoon" and "Limoon Hamud" will refer to Lemons as we know them. As far as I know, neither Lebanon nor Egypt has a word for Limes. They are just a different kind of Lemons to us and in Lebanon are not very common or very much used. So Adam you are probably correct, it might just be an inaccurate translation of "limun".

Just a note on Fatteh and I think we have another thread here devoted to that, I do agree that "Fatteh Shami" has nothing to do with "Sham El Nassim" but rather refers to the country of Sham, ie Syria. It just makes much more sense. On the other hand, Fatteh is most certainly not restricted to Egypt and Syria, it is also very popular in Lebanon.

Ok, back to Egyptian food.

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
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Right, the Iranian term for dried lime seems to be limu omani and obviously the words for lemon and lime have the same root, so maybe no distinction is made in some areas, but I would assume that the Egyptian pickled limes must be grown locally?

The Egyptian pickled lime you mention are called Torshi which are pickles in Egyptian Arabic and yes they are locally grown.

As for Lemons and Limes, this is as follows in Egypt:

Laimoun Baladi=Yellow Lemons (Meyer - Eureka...etc)

Laimoun Benzahir=Limes

As for Dried Lime, they are called Lumi or Lumee or Loomi "لومي" in the Middle East and India/SriLanka. These are, as you say, sometimes called in Iran "Limu Omani" in reference to Oman where they are also called Lumi as well.

It is essentially Limes boiled in a lot of salted water and sun dried to became blackish in color. You add Lumi to some stews to give added flavour and a strong sour note.

I personally like to enjoy Basmati rice with Lumi. It is either a dish from Sri Lanka or the Philippines? I think they also mix in Cloves - Cinnamon sticks - Cardamom pods - Chilli and Turmeric for color. Very tasty dish which beats the hell out of Kashmiri rice.

And if you have the guts, you end up chewing the cooked Lumi to extract every last bit of sour juice.

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