Meat-packing district

[cru]

Thousands of new seats are being added in the meatpacking district but at some point won't there be more seats than people? Who will succeed and how far can this neighborhood go? Is there an end in site? what are your thoughts? How will hugely ambitious outsiders like Sascha fare? How will Stephen Starr succeed. I heard he's sent a poacher to Spice Market for managers. It's getting really competitive down there. What are your thoughts? Where will this all end? And is it good for the city?

Edited February 5, 2006 by cru (log)

[raji]

Al said it best,

"If I were the man I was five years ago, I'd take a FLAMETHROWER to that place!"

[oakapple]

Thousands of new seats are being added  in the meatpacking district but at some point won't there be more seats than people?  Who will succeed and how far can this neighborhood go?  Is there an end in site?  what are your thoughts?  How will hugely ambitious outsiders like Sascha fare?  How will Stephen Starr succeed.  I heard he's sent a poacher to Spice Market for managers.  It's getting really competitive down there.  What are your thoughts?  Where will this all end?  And is it good for the city?

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The concern that "at some point there will be more seats than people" would be relevant if the Meatpacking District were somehow geographically isolated from the rest of Manhattan. But it isn't. In this town, you can be just about anywhere within a half-hour of where you are now, so MePa is drawing diners from all over town. The district will become oversaturated only if Manhattan itself is oversaturated—and I see no sign of that happening.

Two things have changed over the last several years. The first is that the Meatpacking District is stretching. Morimoto's Tenth Avenue address (between 15th & 16th Sts) would formerly have been considered Far West Chelsea, and officially it still is. The Meatpacking District's traditional northern border is 14th St. But because a Meatpacking address is considered desirable, people will talk about Morimoto as if it's a Meatpacking restaurant, but according to the traditional borders it is not.

The second change is that serious restaurants are coming in. On the same block as Morimoto, you have Del Posto today, and shortly you will have Craftsteak. That's just on one block. It's no surprise, either. If you want to open a successful restaurant in New York, there's no better strategy than to go where there are already successful restaurants. I don't know whether Stephen Starr will succeed here, but at the moment I wouldn't bet against him. In choosing a neighborhood that is already a success with the dining public, he's following a well-trodden formula. It worked for TriBeCa, and it worked for the Lower East Side. It will probably work here, too.

[chefboy24]

yeah, to me, the meatpacking district ends on 14th, at jeffrey (for the north west corner).

del posto, craft steak, morimoto are all chelsea.....for god's saaaaaake they are right across chelsea market. no one would call the park meatpacking, right?

there really aren't that many spots to eat in the meat packing?

ono, five ninth, pastis, paradou, spice market?

its not more crowded than say union square or flatiron or even central park south (alain ducasse, jean georges, per se, cafe grey, etc)

[cru]

yeah, to me, the meatpacking district ends on 14th, at jeffrey (for the north west corner).

del posto, craft steak, morimoto are all chelsea.....for god's saaaaaake they are right across chelsea market.  no one would call the park meatpacking, right?

there really aren't that many spots to eat in the meat packing?

ono, five ninth, pastis, paradou, spice market?

its not more crowded than say union square or flatiron or even central park south (alain ducasse, jean georges, per se, cafe grey, etc)

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you guys are being WAY too technical. Perhaps I should have asked, who will fill the seats between 10-18th streets X W.Side Hwy to 9th Avenue?

the fact that you have to cross a street to get to Del Posto doesnt change a thing. Same people, same neighborhood, different name, perhaps....

[oakapple]

You guys are being WAY too technical.  Perhaps I should have asked, who will fill the seats between 10-18th streets X W.Side Hwy to 9th Avenue?

The fact that you have to cross a street to get to Del Posto doesn't change a thing.  Same people, same neighborhood, different name, perhaps....

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I don't see any reason to think it will be a problem, just as it hasn't been a problem for TriBeCa or the Lower East Side—both of which, like the Meatpacking District, were once forlorn, but are now upscale. As I said upthread, "If you want to open a successful restaurant in New York, there's no better strategy than to go where there are already successful restaurants."

[cru]

But are'nt TribeCa and the LES both residential neighborhoods? How many people live in the Meat district? And arent those neighborhoods establishments slightly more local friendly than the bridge and tunnel mess in the meat district? The best thing I can say about this up and coming 'hood is that it sucks the garbage out of better neighborhoods.

[oakapple]

But are'nt TribeCa and the LES both residential neighborhoods?  How many people live in the Meat district?  And arent those neighborhoods establishments slightly more local friendly than the bridge and tunnel mess in the meat district?  The best thing I can say about this up and coming 'hood is that it sucks the garbage out of better neighborhoods.

←

It is true that TriBeCa and the LES are residential neighborhoods, and the Meatpacking District proper is not, but it is quite close to the Far West Village and Southwest Chelsea, which have plenty of residents. The analogy is still relevant, because the better known restaurants in all of these areas couldn't come close to surviving on neighborhood business alone. They survive because they are dining destinations.

You refer to TriBeCa and the LES as "local friendly," but this was not always the case. In 1980, you needed a security escort to walk around TriBeCa at night. It was decidedly not the upscale area it is today. But once it was demonstrated that the area could be a dining destination (it was probably Montrachet that did it), the explosion came, and it still hasn't stopped. Do you think Bouley, Chanterelle, Nobu, Danube, Scalini Fedeli, etc., are surviving on drop-ins from the local residents? Not likely.

I don't know the LES quite as well, but I believe it's a similar story there. What it is today is not what it was just a few short years ago.

Edited February 7, 2006 by oakapple (log)

[docsconz]

I would certainly add the original Bouley and Chantarelle to the original Tribeca Restaurant scene as far as establishing the area. Morre importantly than the restaurants though IMO for the upscale development of that area was its repuattion as an artist community. The same can be said of the LES and Soho and Greenwich Village before them. This has also been happening in Dumbo in Brooklyn. The artists have generally come first, found cheap, plentiful space and made it cool. The upscale restaurants followed in fairly short order, but I would say the art came first. I don't see that happening in MePa. The other problem with MePa is the relatively poor distribution of public transportation in that area. One generally needs to cab it or drive there. Most people from within the City will likely cab it, but the subways as egalatarian as they are, may still attract some upscale diners to more transportation friendly areas.

My second job ever was as a valet at The Olde Homestead when MePa really was The Meat-Packing District and The Olde Homestead was considered the classiest joint in the area - by far!

[Pan]

John, as you mention, it is indeed possible to get to the Meat-Packing District by subway. You can take the A, C, E, or L to 14th St. and 8th Av.; and the 1, 2, and 3 stop at 14th St. and 7th. You can also take the M14 crosstown, the M11 10th/9th-Av. bus, and the M20 8th Av./7th Av. bus. So depending on where you're coming from, transportation might be fine; it's just that the location is far west.

The Meat-Packing District for the most part really isn't my scene, but I'm not so sure it's a good idea to call for it to be torched or talk about the people who frequent it as "garbage." Tell us what you really think, guys.