Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Madrid Fusión 2006 - Ferran's manifesto


Recommended Posts

I just got back from the Madrid Fusión. Many of the greatest were there. The Americans Thomas Keller and Charlie Trotter and the Spanish Juan Mari Arzak and Martin Berasateguí, among many other star chefs, gathered in Madrid last week to talk food. But the biggest star of all at the fourth annual Madrid Fusión, widely regarded as the world’s most important gastronomic forum, was Ferrán Adrià, chef-owner of El Bulli restaurant, who has done for haute cuisine what the iPod did for music fans: nothing short of triggering a revolution. Adrià’s signature (and now ubiquitous) savoury foams are only one of numerous inventions (think liquid ravioli, powdered foie gras, edibles “papers” and “airs”), many copied all over the foodie world, which have changed the way we look at haute cuisine. Today, a many years after he began whipping potato foam out of pressurized canisters, his followers have spread his gospel of science-inspired, defiant, playful food, from New York to São Paulo, from Chicago to Lima.

The breadth and ever-growing relevance of Adrià-style inventive cuisine, typically a succession of small servings of interestingly textured concoctions, some kookier than others, has snowballed in recent years, achieving the status of a true revolution. Some of today’s best chefs, like England’s Heston Blumenthal and the American Grant Achatz, are not only converts, but are actually pushing the style in their own different directions. Yet this movement still has no name. The American specialized press recently started calling it “molecular gastronomy”, a term coined in the eighties by Nicholas Kurti, a gastro-scientist at Oxford University. But alas, the name hasn’t stuck.

In his opening-day presentation at the Madrid Fusión, Adrià challenged the crowd to come up with a term for the food revolution which he personifies and leads. In the audience, Trotter, Keller and Homaru Cantu (a Chicago-based prodigy), among many other chefs, listened attentively.

Adrià scoffed at the term “molecular gastronomy”: “Not only does that make food sound unnapetizing, but it only refers to one aspect of what we are doing at El Bulli today”. He then unveiled a 23-point manifesto defining more clearly what this movement is about (or rather, what El Bulli’s food is about). He conceded that “… the collaboration with experts from different fields, (like) industrial design and science, is primordial”, but refused having himself or his followers pigeonholed as “mad scientists of the kitchen”.

To demonstrate that Ferranism goes much beyond experiments in a lab, he stated, for instance, that “cooking is a language through which one can express harmony, creativity, happiness, beauty, poetry, complexity, magic, humour, provocation”. The manifesto also underlined the importance of team work in dish creation, the predominance of fish and vegetables over red meat, small over large portions, fast versus slow cooking times and new flavours of milks (of nuts) and distillations (of earth or fruits) over classical broths.

Here are all 23 points of Ferran's manifesto:

1- Cooking is a language through which one can express harmony, creativity, happiness, beauty, poetry, complexity, magic, humour, provocation.

2- One may assume that only top-quality products will be used and that the techniques used to prepare dishes will be well-mastered.

3- All products have the same gastronomic worth, regardless of price.

4- We prefer to cook with vegetables and seafood. Dairy also predominates, as well as dried fruits and other products that amount to a light cuisine. We rarely cook large cuts of red meat or whole birds.

5- Even if the characteristics of products are changed (temperature, texture, shape, etc.), the goal is to preserve its original flavour, except when slow-cooking or when searching for the matrix resulting from reactions such as Maillard’s.

6- Cooking methods, both classical and modern, are a heritage that the cook must utilize to the maximum extent.

7- As happened throughout the past in other fields of human knowledge, new technologies support the progress of gastronomy.

8- The family of fonds is expanding, and alongside the classic ones we use lighter broths (flavoured waters, consimmés, clarified vegetable juices, milks of dried fruits or nuts) in similar ways.

9- The information that is on a plate is enjoyed through all senses, and also through reflexion.

10- The stimuli of the senses are not only taste-related: we can also play with the senses of touch (contrast of temperatures and textures), smell, sight (colours, shapes, illusionisms, etc), so that the senses become one of our points of reference when we create dishes.

11- The techno-conceptual search is one of the cornerstones of the creative pyramid.

12- We create as a team.

13- The boundary separating savoury and sweet is blurred. There’s a rise in the importance of savoury ice creams and cold food in general.

14- The classical structure of dishes is being ruptured. There is a revolution in the appetizers and desserts, in the sense that they have become symbiotic, while the appetizer - main course – dessert hierarchy is broken.

15- A new way of presenting food is gaining strength.

16- A chef’s cooking style is linked to his feelings towards his surroundings.

17- The products and preparations from other countries are submitted to our cuisine’s own criteria.

18- There are two main ways to reach harmony between products and flavours: through memory (deconstructing, links to the autonomous cook, adaptation, previous modern recipes), or through new combinations.

19- Our food is connected to the world and the language of the arts.

20- Recipes are conceived to be served in small portions.

21- Taking a dish out of context, or using irony, performance or spectacle is perfectly acceptable, as long as this is not done in a superficial way, and so that there is a link with gastronomic reflexion.

22- The tasting menu is how we express our avant-garde cuisine. Its structure is alive, and is subject to change. We are betting on concepts such as snacks, tapas, morphings, etc.

23- The knowledge and/or the collaboration with experts from different fields (gastronomic culture, history, industrial design, science) is primordial in our evolution.

Alexandra Forbes

Brazilian food and travel writer, @aleforbes on Twitter

Official Website

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing this, Alexandra! His manifesto is not unlike one of his own tasting menus.

I heartily ascribe to most of his statements. A couple that I do not fully embrace as stated are numbers 3 & 4. As for number 3, I agree that price is not the issue, although I don't agree that all ingredients necessarily have the same intrinsic value. I believe that what he was trying to say with this statement is along the lines of what he said here on eGullet that is quoted in my sig line below. Yes, a very good sardine is better than a bad lobster, but I still prefer a great lobster to a great sardine.

I don't disagree with bringing seafood and vegetables to the fore, but I still love red meat and enjoy whole-cooked birds. As long as a time and place for these pursuits remain, I don't really have a problem with this point though.

The bottom line is that I find this manifesto an exciting elucidation of everything I could not myself adequately verbalize about what makes this movement interesting to me. It is absolutely consistent not only with my experience of El Bulli, but other restaurants of its ilk at which I have had the same feeling of excitement - restaurants such as Alinea, Arzak, WD-50 and Moto.

As for a name for the movement, did he ever actually suggest one? One that has been bandied about here and I have started using is "hypermodern". Other possibilities, especially with the manifesto could include "Ferranism" or Adriism". Not to take away anything from all the other fine practitioners of this style, but he has been the primary pacesetter and now the one to put it down on paper.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

Link to post
Share on other sites
As for a name for the movement, did he ever actually suggest one? One that has been bandied about here and I have started using is "hypermodern". Other possibilities, especially with the manifesto could include "Ferranism" or Adriism".

I myself have been calling it Ferranism for a couple of years, which I think is the term that best describes the movement. But to answer your question, I will once again quote Ferran: "Manifesto in hand, we contacted some friends that have followed our work for a longe time (Bob Noto, Toni Massanés, Jaume Coll, Pau Arenós among others), and each suggested names that, at this time, can serve to start up a debate: postmodern cuisine, transvanguardista cuisine, reformist cuisine, logical cuisine, evolutionist cuisine, etc. In the other hand, there are those who sugget that the most appropriate name is the one coined by the New York Times in 2003 when it published its 14-page story on Spanish gastronomy: "New nouvelle cuisine".

I still prefer Ferranism. :)

Alexandra Forbes

Brazilian food and travel writer, @aleforbes on Twitter

Official Website

Link to post
Share on other sites
As for a name for the movement, did he ever actually suggest one? One that has been bandied about here and I have started using is "hypermodern". Other possibilities, especially with the manifesto could include "Ferranism" or Adriism".

I myself have been calling it Ferranism for a couple of years, which I think is the term that best describes the movement. But to answer your question, I will once again quote Ferran: "Manifesto in hand, we contacted some friends that have followed our work for a longe time (Bob Noto, Toni Massanés, Jaume Coll, Pau Arenós among others), and each suggested names that, at this time, can serve to start up a debate: postmodern cuisine, transvanguardista cuisine, reformist cuisine, logical cuisine, evolutionist cuisine, etc. In the other hand, there are those who sugget that the most appropriate name is the one coined by the New York Times in 2003 when it published its 14-page story on Spanish gastronomy: "New nouvelle cuisine".

I still prefer Ferranism. :)

I certainly prefer Ferranism over any of those, although I still like hypermodern as it goes beyond a single individual, however important and influential he may be.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if the scope of this manifesto goes beyond Adria's work or not. To me, it sounds more like a description of his philosophy than a call to others to join him in this hypervanguard movement.

PedroEspinosa (aka pedro)

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not sure if the scope of this manifesto goes beyond Adria's work or not. To me, it sounds more like a description of his philosophy than a call to others to join him in this hypervanguard movement.

Whether it is simply a description of his tenets or a call to others to join him IMO doesn't really matter as there are others who are basically using the same or a similar approach and have followed his lead or forged a similar one for themselves. How many people have worked in his kitchen and gone on to their own restaurants and who have they in turn spawned? And then there are those who have never worked at El Bulli, but have still been influenced by developments there. Wherther intended for others to follow or not, the fact that he has put these ideas on paper is significant enough in its own right.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't disagree with you, John, but to me the importance of this manifesto compared with the books already written by Ferran and elBulli's team is little. It has the value of presenting a good summary of their philosophy, which of course can't be neglected.

PedroEspinosa (aka pedro)

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is definitely interesting. I'm not sure I agree with Ferran's manifesto, I don't think his way of presenting food is the future. I disagree with many of his points (4, 5, 20, 22), and many of his other points are not significant as they are part of older cooking philosophies as well. Another thing, where is Pierre Gagnaire, Michel Bras, etc...? Are they not part of the new food movement as well? Certainly this is interesting news in gastronomy, but IMO has little real significance.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This is definitely interesting.  I'm not sure I agree with Ferran's manifesto, I don't think his way of presenting food is the future.  I disagree with many of his points (4, 5, 20, 22), and many of his other points are not significant as they are part of older cooking philosophies as well.  Another thing, where is Pierre Gagnaire, Michel Bras, etc...?  Are they not part of the new food movement as well?  Certainly this is interesting news in gastronomy, but IMO has little real significance.

The future? As in dominant style of food preparation? I don't think so either nor do I think it is intended to be. It relies too much on creativity and humor in addition to flavor and is probably too technically difficult or labor intensive for mass adoption. I agree with Pedro that this manifesto is simply a concise description of what they are trying to do at El Bulli. By writing it down, I believe that Ferran is laying claim to the concepts, something that neither Gagnaire, Bras or anyone else has done - at least not so concisely or thoroughly. It also appears to be an invitation to others to follow their lead. Whether others do so or not is up to them. Many have already done so, which is what makes this important and interesting. The brevity of the manifesto compared to the books cannot be minimized in its importance in today's world. The books are there to back up the manifesto with evidence that the manifesto is not mere rhetoric, but what the restaurant is actually doing.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

Link to post
Share on other sites

"The brevity of the manifesto compared to the books cannot be minimized in its importance in today's world. The books are there to back up the manifesto with evidence that the manifesto is not mere rhetoric, but what the restaurant is actually doing."

Docsconz, I couldn't agree more with all you've said above. Furthermore, Ferran's books, justly, cost a fortune, and therefore are available to a lucky few. This manifesto, however, is something many more people can read, especially now that I translated it into English and posted it here :)

(he wants word to spread), and that is exactly what he is trying to do: lay claim to this movement, which, like it or not, is gaining in strength every month, and every time a new chef opens a restaurant somewhere serving Ferranist cuisine.

Alexandra Forbes

Brazilian food and travel writer, @aleforbes on Twitter

Official Website

Link to post
Share on other sites
As for a name for the movement, did he ever actually suggest one? One that has been bandied about here and I have started using is "hypermodern". Other possibilities, especially with the manifesto could include "Ferranism" or Adriism". Not to take away anything from all the other fine practitioners of this style, but he has been the primary pacesetter and now the one to put it down on paper.

In Spain, we often refer to the Adria movement as "Ferranismo."

Link to post
Share on other sites

With Philippe Regol and others in an informal e-mail chain he has set up in Spain we're already discussing this 'decalog' (a clumsy name since this refers to ten rules and Ferran is proposing... 23!) There are many things to be thought over, reformed or refined, as already mentioned here: from the unacceptably written point 4 ("all products have the same gastronomic worth, regardless of price") to the methodically uncomfortable mixture of real 'rules' and other points which are merely acknowledgements of the way things are being done, or general claims that belong to modern cuisine as much as they do to previous eras, such as 'nouvelle cuisine'.

That said, I wonder if the purpose isn't in itself futile: things were simpler and more clear-cut 35 years ago with 'nouvelle cuisine'. Now, after so much deconstruction, the very concept of cuisine may have been deconstructed to death, so that the search for a common set of values which all (or most of) the modern cooks could claim as their own may be destined to fail. But of course trying to define these values is a worthy endeavor in itself...

Victor de la Serna

elmundovino

Link to post
Share on other sites
There are many things to be thought over, reformed or refined, as already mentioned here

Yes, and Ferran is the first to admit this, and makes it clear that his manifesto is a starting point, not at all set in stone. He wanted to trigger precisely the discussion we are now having.

Alexandra Forbes

Brazilian food and travel writer, @aleforbes on Twitter

Official Website

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gerry. Nice to have met you at the conference.

Although I don't speak Spanish, it seemed to me from the translation - as Alexandra says - he wanted to start a conversation rather than make a proclamation. "This is just something for us to talk about" was the quote I wrote down. I would be interested, did he actually call it a 'manifesto?' He seemed to me to be very modest about the nature of his offering. Almost as if - impressively - he is working on an 'open source' type aesthetic. Trying to achieve a communal truth, rather than an hierarchal one. He was also promoting his new book on food science (sorry, I don't have my notes infront of me for the title), and very much wanted everyone to contribute to the contents, for it to be representative of the community, rather than some culinary oligarchy.

Edited by MobyP (log)

"Gimme a pig's foot, and a bottle of beer..." Bessie Smith

Flickr Food

"111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321" Bruce Frigard 'Winesonoma' - RIP

Link to post
Share on other sites

This document, signed by 'El Bulli' and not by Ferran personally (although Ferran Adrià read it and commented on it at Madrid Fusión) is headlined 'A synthesis of our philosophy' and contains these two preliminary paragraphs before the aforementioned 23 articles:

"Lately we have observed that some cooks outside Spain define their style, give it a name, and in many cases that definition includes a mention of our cuisine or, more generally, of high Spanish cuisine. Curiously, and for no obvious reason, we have never intended to give a name to our cuisine. That's why we have now begun asking ourselves if we could give a name, not just to El Bulli's style, but to present-day 'haute cuisine' in Spain. From that point we have contacted some of the friends who have followed us for a long time (Bob Noto, Toni Massanés, Jaume Coll, Pau Arenós and others), and each one of them has suggested names that, for the time being, could serve to launch a debate: post-modern cuisine, trans-vanguard cuisine, reform cuisine, logical cuisine, evolutionist cuisine, etcetera. On the other hand, there are those who say the best name is the one thought up by The New York Times [Magazine] to headline its 14-page report on Spanish cuisine in 2003: 'The new 'nouvelle''.

"But beyond whatever name we may find and agree upon, we also thought it would be interesting to try and put the bases of our cuisine in writing. That is why we have attempted to include in this page a sort of 'manifesto', some principles that will set out our style. Even though distilling our philosophy in just a few sentences has not been an easy task, from all our body of work we have reached these 23 'commandments' which we believe may serve as a starting point to define our cuisine."

Edited by vserna (log)

Victor de la Serna

elmundovino

Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who were there, What was the energy level in the room when Ferran was speaking? Were people rapt in attention and a buzz in the air or was it more of a ho-hum, here's another speaker atmosphere? I would imagine the former, but it would be interesting to hear if this was, in fact, so.

What kind of response did his words elicit from the audience?

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

Link to post
Share on other sites
For those who were there, What was the energy level in the room when Ferran was speaking? Were people rapt in attention and a buzz in the air or was it more of a ho-hum, here's another speaker atmosphere? I would imagine the former, but it would be interesting to hear if this was, in fact, so.

What kind of response did his words elicit from the audience?

Needless to say, everyone has hanging to his every word, including chefs Keller, Cantu and many others. Before his manifesto, he played a video of an Italian couple dining at El Bulli, focusing on their emotions, and not on the food, showing them chewing, laughing, sipping, etc. If I knew how, I'd post a couple of my pics...

Alexandra Forbes

Brazilian food and travel writer, @aleforbes on Twitter

Official Website

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, he's a great showman. There were two predominant attitudes - the reverential, rapt one, mostly from foreign participants, and the smiles from Spanish veterans - neither mocking nor over-awed, just good-humored because we've known one another for so long - something along the lines of "Here goes our crazy Ferran - at it again..."

Victor de la Serna

elmundovino

Link to post
Share on other sites

Alex, Thanks for the photos.

Victor, I can see how those reactions would have been the case. It is a lot easier to take the treasure one has for granted. That is not to say that he is unappreciated by his countrymen. Not in the least. You are simply more familiar with him. He is a part of you and a part of a collective revolution in your national gastronomy, albeit a major or even the major one.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

Link to post
Share on other sites

Victor and Moby, thanks for your input. I think your posts put this all in a very reasonable perspective. perhaps one that asks when is a manifesto not a manifesto. And of course, Alex, thanks for your initial report.

Robert Buxbaum

WorldTable

Recent WorldTable posts include: comments about reporting on Michelin stars in The NY Times, the NJ proposal to ban foie gras, Michael Ruhlman's comments in blogs about the NJ proposal and Bill Buford's New Yorker article on the Food Network.

My mailbox is full. You may contact me via worldtable.com.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately the expressions on the faces of the rapt foreigners were probably determined by two other factors aside from just admiration - first, the stuttering of the translators over unfamiliar language ("Er... I don't know what he just said" was not an unfamiliar refrain during Adria, Rocca, Beratesetegui), and second, that the translation broadcast level was set at a lower volume than the stage, so, like listening to someone talking moderately in a loud night club, you had to really focus.

Adria is a remarkable speaker - I saw him the night before as well at another ceremony - not only for the content, and perhaps I noticed this because I'm not a native speaker, but his level of relaxation before a crowd, his ability to talk extemporaneously, was greater than most other speakers over the three days.

What was perhaps the most striking was the apparent sense of community among many of the Spanish chefs. It was rare for the Americans (Wylie Dufresne noted it as well. "I don’t think anyone considers the Americans as united as this"), and practically unheard of amongst the Brits (of which there were a few notable names in the crowd, having paid their own passage).

"Gimme a pig's foot, and a bottle of beer..." Bessie Smith

Flickr Food

"111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321" Bruce Frigard 'Winesonoma' - RIP

Link to post
Share on other sites

What else came out of this conference besides the "Manifesto of Ferranismo"?

Moby, Thanks for the additional insight and detail.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again,

I have been very busy transcribing everything I've got on my digital recorder to my hard drive, and I was seriously considering posting Ferran's live comments to each point of his manifesto, which might answer some of the questions raised in this forum. Yes, it's true the translation was too loud and often faulty, so I am very glad I recorded Ferran himself, and not the English translator. I will have to wait 2 weeks to post all this, as this is something I'm working on for Brazil's equivalent of Gourmet magazine, called Gula (www.gula.com.br) and it wouldn't be fair to them to spill the beans here first (plus, I've got to translate all of it). Answering your question about what else was interesting at the MF, I will also describe, for the same publication, all the kooky tools and machines which were presented (a machine which steams from the inside out, a huge distilling machine, Homaru's flavour replicator, etc etc). I will post pics of these when I have some free time! ;)

A.

Alexandra Forbes

Brazilian food and travel writer, @aleforbes on Twitter

Official Website

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Similar Content

    • By eG Forums Host
      Modernist Cuisine at the eGullet Forums
      Here at eG Forums, we have what is probably the broadest collection of information on modernist cooking anywhere. We've discussed sous vide, the general chemistry of culinary modernism, practical applications with colloids and starches, and much, much more. A lot of this discussion is contained in our topics about the books Modernist Cuisine and Modernist Cuisine at Home (we have topics on both the books and on cooking with the recipes they present), but we've been modern since before modern was cool -- click on the 'Recent discussions tagged "Modernist"' link at the bottom of this page for a small sampling of what we've been up to. And feel free to use the Search tool at the top of the page to look for specific terms or people.

      Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking by Nathan Myhrvold with Chris Young and Maxime Bilet



      Support eG, buy the book at Amazon.com
      About the original book (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3)
      Cooking the recipes from the book (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4)
      A Q&A with the Modernist Cuisine team

      Modernist Cuisine at Home by Nathan Myhrvold with Maxime Bilet



      Support eG, buy the book at Amazon.com
      About the book
      Cooking the recipes from the book (Part 1, Part 2)

      Other Modernist-related topics:
      Recent discussions tagged "Modernist"
      Sous Vide discussion index
    • By Porthos
      I picked up enough boneless short ribs to make 3 meals for my Sweetie and me. One meal will be pan-braised tonight. One has been vacuum-sealed and is in the freezer. My question is about seasoning, sealing, freezing, then defrosting and cooking at a later date. I'd like to season and seal the 3rd meal's worth. Can I use a dry rub on the meat, then seal, freeze, and cook at a later date? Does anyone else do this?
    • By newchef
      So I've now found myself at the water's edge of Modernist Cuisine.  Specifically, using sodium citrate for emulsifying all kinds of cheeses.  What I'm after is making an emulsified Parmesan sauce as well as another emulsified cheese sauce (most likely using Cheddar or Colby) that I can freeze and use later.  I'm a single guy and am no stranger of tweaking recipes for freezing but I haven't done it for modernist stuff yet.  I'd love to make a big batch of cheese sauce, freeze it into ice cubes for up to 3 months or so, and then take a few cubes out to thaw on a weeknight and toss with pasta, drizzle over veggies, etc.
       
      I looked at the modernist cuisine FAQ and saw this specific post about the cheese sauce that is "probably" freeze-able because it uses something called carageenan.  Has anyone been able to freeze sauce and keep it frozen for, say, a few months?  And not have to use carageenan?
       
      Thanks!
    • By WackGet
      Recently I picked up a few different types of emulsifiers in bulk powder form when I saw them in passing at a catering wholesaler.
       
      Having never used powdered emulsifiers before in cooking or baking, I figured I'd find pretty comprehensive instructions for their use on the web - but I can't.
       
      I'm not a stranger to food science but nor am I a chemist. I understand that emulsifiers are at least sometimes prepared by pre-mixing them into a (heated?) liquid or fat and then using the resulting solution in the actual recipe, which may explain why a lot of commercial emulsifier mixtures are packages as tubes of gel or paste. I've also checked several industry-level textbooks about emulsifiers and while they are fantastic for in-depth explanations of the chemistry behind each emulsifier, they do not (as you might imagine) provide guidance on how a lowly baker or cook would actually use a powdered form.
       
      So does anyone know how to prepare and use a dry powdered form of any of the following in a real recipe?
       
      Specifically I am most interested in enhancing baked goods and adding stability to sauces, but would also like to know how to use them for other processes such as sausage-making too.
      E471 Mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids E481 Sodium stearoyl lactylate E482 Calcium stearoyl lactylate E472e DATEM (diacetyl tartaric acid ester of mono- and diglycerides)
        Thanks.
    • By mjbarnard
      I cooked two turkey breasts sous vide. This year had access to the Meater+ thermometer probe which I managed to vacuum seal in the bag without difficulty (it is small). Since it works wirelessly I was able to monitor and it records the internal temperatures at the thickest part of the breast.
      I thought the results were interesting. I cooked at 60C for 8 hours. I have always used https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/a-better-way-to-turkey-cook-that-bird-sous-vide-for-the-best-feast-ever which gives long cooking times at lower temperature. I have found that as according to this page https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/11/sous-vide-turkey-breast-crispy-skin-recipe-thanksgiving.html that 55C gives turkey which is just a little too pink for most tastes. Over the last few years have increased the temperature up to 59/60 and I find it perfect - very moist and tender, but pale not pink.
      See attached images. I changed my mind a couple of times and started at 58 then 60 then 59 again, so ignore the slight variations. The thing I found interesting was that the thickest part (of a large breast) reached 55C in around 1 hour 40 mins and target of 59 in 2 hours 30 mins. Now I appreciate that sous vide is a combination of temperature and time or duration, but the data make me think that around 4 hours would be sufficient, as per the seriouseats table. I have previously used the chefsteps 55-58 for their much longer advised times, up to 12 hours and the meat is still quite pink at the end, so I dont believe 55 for 12 hours would effectively be the same.
      From now on I will watching the internal temperatures with interest. This has always been the (relative) unkown for sous vide amateurs. 


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...