Hot Dogs

[john@thebar]

Howard 88, thanks for jogging my memory and John, wow, I think the more appropriate moniker for you should be "hotdog guru" rather than "hotdog guy"! I inhaled my last whiff of a Schickhaus Griddle Dog 30 years ago next month when I moved away from the Jersey shore. Through the years and time zones, I've eaten countless hotdogs in countless settings. Trust me when I maintain that no hot dog experience has ever matched sitting on a jetty next to the Long Branch pier and chomping on a Schickhaus dog!

I'm a new member and this is my first post. I became aware of eGullet through the Chicago Chowhound Board where the locals wax rhapsodic about Vienna Beef hotdogs hidden under a mound of condiments like sport peppers, tomato wedges, babys*** mustard, celery salt, etc. Oh yeah, almost forgot the unforgettable sweet relish which is a shade of not naturally occuring neon green. No kidding! While reading these posts I just sigh. So imagine my delight when I log onto eGullet for the first time as a member and start reading about Schickhaus as well as Sabrett's and Nathan's! Sort of like listening to Chicago's Greatest Hits and someone puts on Tom Waits growling out Jersey Girl. Thanks!

[John]

Jason,

Are you sure that you were referring to knockwurst at TJ's? Because from what I understand, knockwurst is all beef; actually a thicker hot dog with more garlic. I think that you might have come across knackwurst. I checked Usinger's catalog, and they offer both. The knackwurst is beef and pork, while the knockwurst listed was under the Certified Angus Beef listing, and is all beef.

As for hot dogs, I like both types; the all beef and beef/pork blend. A dog like Thumann's (not the all beef) has very little beef. And Zweigle's contains a small amount of beef. I'm strange also in that I love bratwurst, but not the bratwurst containing beef. Some are beef/pork, some all beef, most are all pork or a pork/veal combination.

[Jason Perlow]

Are you sure that you were referring to knockwurst at TJ's? Because from what I understand, knockwurst is all beef; actually a thicker hot dog with more garlic. I think that you might have come across knackwurst. I checked Usinger's catalog, and they offer both. The knackwurst is beef and pork, while the knockwurst listed was under the Certified Angus Beef listing, and is all beef.

I didnt know there was a difference between knackwust and knockwurst. See, I learn something new every day.

[John]

John@thebar,

Do you live in or near Chicago? I'm not a big fan of the Chicago hot dog. Danny Meyers stand in Madison Park (N.Y.) serves what is considered by even the Chicago Tribune to be an authentic Chicago style hot dog. The Vienna frank is ok; a little bland for a beef dog, and boiled rather than grilled. And I don't like all the crap they put on it. It really is a salad dog. The flavors don't blend together and compliment one another like they do in an Italian Hot Dog, and the spicy sports pepper overwhelms the hot dog, which should be the focus of the eating experience. I had a Chicago dog and a plain Vienna dog w/just mustard. I preferred the plain dog. Then I went to Gray's Papaya down the street and enjoyed it far more than the other 2.

I like Schickhaus also, and you can still get them in Long Branch at Max's. For a beef and pork dog I prefer a grilled Thumann's to Schickhaus. Welcome to E-Gullet.

[Jason Perlow]

'm not a big fan of the Chicago hot dog. Danny Meyers stand in Madison Park (N.Y.) serves what is considered by even the Chicago Tribune to be an authentic Chicago style hot dog. The Vienna frank is ok; a little bland for a beef dog, and boiled rather than grilled. And I don't like all the crap they put on it. It really is a salad dog. The flavors don't blend together and compliment one another like they do in an Italian Hot Dog, and the spicy sports pepper overwhelms the hot dog, which should be the focus of the eating experience.

I think the true hot dog purist tends to favor the NY-style hot dog, with mustard and kraut. I could never fully appreciate the Chicago dog, or some of the crazy dogs they serve out in LA like the oki-dog or some of the creations at Pink's. I'm not even sure I like the Jersey-style Italian dogs either. I like sauteed onions and peppers and potatoes with Italian sausage though. Not dogs.

About as far away from the traditional mustard and kraut that I like to get are the Sabrett's onions and sauce, or a chili dog. But in some ways I consider the chili dog a completely different animal. There are different theories as to what should and shouldn't be in a chili dog. I like it with meat and bean chili that is somewhat spicy, and I like it to be with raw onions, but no cheese. I also like it with a LOT of chili, so that you have to eat it with a knife and fork.

[john@thebar]

Hey Mr. Guru, yes I live in the north suburbs. I've lived in enough different areas not to knock local tastes but I can't help myself when it comes to hotdogs! BTW, I used to be able to get Nathan's at the local Dominick's but I haven't seen any in the last 6 monthes or so.

[John]

Finally tried Usingers fresh brats. Until now, I was eating their fine ground pork and veal cooked bratwurst. Which is very good. The fresh bratwurst is a different animal. Coarse ground, and all pork, no veal.

Previously, I've raved about the brats at the Union Pork Store in my hometown of Union, N.J. But these are the cooked bratwurst. Again, almost like comparing apples and oranges because one type is finely ground and contains veal (making it lighter in flavor) while the other type is coarser and meatier.

I happen to prefer the coarser, tightly packed fresh brat. But I suppose there will be times that I'm in the mood for a lighter, smoother sausage that tastes great accompanied by a mug of German Hefe- Weizen (preferably Franziskaner). That said, I would have to conclude that the fresh brat from Usingers is the best bratwurst that I've sampled. I've tasted it next to Johnsonville and the Union Pork Store's fresh brats. For cooked brats, I still prefer the Union Pork Store.

[TPO]

I love red hot dogs, but I think you have to be born in Maine to have the red hot dog gene. They're not spicy hot dogs -- just made with FD&C Red No.3 and Red No.4 food dyes and probably outlawed in every other part of the country. But in a grilled and buttered New England style roll or next to some bean-hole beans they are great. As for brand, it's Jordan's.

[Double 0]

I grew up with Hebrew National natural casing hot dogs and knocks (sadly no longer made). Right now I like the the Black Bear (shoprite house brand) natural casing all beef dogs. They are often on sale for $2.99/ lb and are always available. Someone has started selling a fresh brat under the Nathans name recently, and it comes in two varities, beer and original. I found them similar to Johnsonville and couldn't really tell the difference between the two varities. Having said all this I wish that someone would start selling Usingers sausages in No. Jersey.

[sammy]

Went to the TJ's in Westwood today. Bought 4 packages of Usinger's pre-cooked brats.

I noticed they had the Usinger Knockwursts as well, but I didn't buy any -- I'm not normally a huge fan of pork/beef combos in a hot dog. I either like an all pork sausage or an all beef, I'm a bit strange that way (although, I admit to liking some pork/veal combos like Zweigles) Are these any good?

You should try Usingers veal knackwurst.

[John]

I went to Trader Joes today and bought some Usinger's cooked bratwurst. This is slightly different than the cooked bratwurst I ordered from them in the past, which is finely ground pork and veal. The brats at Trader Joes are the coarse ground pork (no veal) cooked brats. I had it next to a veal/pork cooked brat from the Union Pork Store and a Johnsonville Stadium brat (cooked, all pork). I liked the Union Pork Store brat the best, followed by Johnsonville's Stadium Brat, then Usinger's. Usinger's fresh brats beat all of them. I got a number to call from the manager at Trader Joes to their corporate office. I will attempt to get them to carry Usinger's fresh brats as well as their beef hot dogs.

Double O, Hebrew National hot dogs with casing are available at Goldberg's Kosher Meats on rt 516 in Old Bridge.

[bleachboy]

Oh. My. God.

My Usinger's sausages came today and I'm floored. Having eaten only "normal grocery store" hot dogs my whole life, this dog is transcendent. I mean. Holy shit, dude.

Here was my dinner tonight:

At left, fresh bratwurst. At right, Angus beef weiner. Served on freshly-baked (albeit ugly) buttered New England-style rolls. Fritos the garnish. Dijon mustard and mayonnaise (go ahead, crucify me, that's how I was raised) the condiment. Absolutely unbelivable. If you haven't tried these franks, order some -- you will NOT be sorry.

Thanks to Holly Moore for opening my eyes. Cool last name, too.

[pogophiles]

Those look great Don!

[rabidscottsman]

bleachboy..about your choice of condiment on those sausages (wich im drooling over by the way). that doesnt sound half bad..i may try that. I myself choose a real spicy bbq sauce and sour cream on a cheddarwurst. Believe it or not it tastes pretty good

[s'kat]

Oh, my- I hadn't been aware of a hot dog thread. Bleachboy, those are truly things of beauty! The mayo is almost forgivable...

[phaelon56]

I think I'll talk to Wegmans also.

If there's a Wegman's in your area they most likely stock Hoffman's Franks. They're revered in central NY state as the best brand although I'm not that taken with their standard hotdogs. I do really like their coneys or white hots, sold under the name Snappy Griller. The coneys have veal and pork and nice spiciness. In this area the way to get quality hotdog/sausage products is to find a good German meat market (we still have one). Their homemade brats, sausages and hotdog type products blow away anything the grocery stores will offer.

[PoorLawyer]

Hoffman's are good but I think Sahlen's are by far the best hot dog.

Anyone who has been to a Ted's in Buffalo (or the one in Arizona) will know what I am talking about. Mostly pork and grilled on a charcoal open flame....hand's down winner! They sell them now at the wegman's in VA but only in a 5 lb bag

[John]

Hofmann's are available at the Woodbridge Wegman's, and I've had their German franks as well as their coneys. Love the franks, not crazy about the coneys. I just don't like their spicing. Also available at Wegmans are the Zweigle's White Hots, which are basically a bratwurst. Good, but I prefer Johnsonville Stadium brats. These are an aisle down.

Hofmann's German franks are available in the 3 lb package (6 to a lb) or loose behind the deli counter in a smaller 8 to a lb size. The Bridgewater Wegmans has Hofmann's German franks in a one pound sealed package (6 to a lb) with natural casing. I prefer these. And at $3.79 per pound, cheaper than Thumann's , although Wegman's sells them at $4.49 per lb rather than the usual $5.49 elsewhere.

I haven't tried Sahlen's yet, as they're not available in my area. At least 2 people I know that have tried Sahlen's and Thumann's prefer Thumann's by far. Schaller & Weber makes avery good German style frankfurter, similar (but better) than what I get at some of the German butchers near me. A very distinct spicing. Hofmann's is somewhat similar in flavor to Thumann's, but much less flavor. Very light in color also as it contains veal. But very good. My favorite in this style after Thumann's.

[littlebear]

We recently bought Papaya King dogs at Fairway in Plainview New York. We were really impresssed. Can I get any opinion on their retail product?

[dumplin]

I'm going to add my $.02 and further ruin my reputation on Egullet. I'm from NC...we eat slaw dogs. Its a Southern thing. Ketchup, Mustard, Chili, Cole Slaw and Onions. At most places you just say "all the way". As a kid, we normally ate red hot dogs, Jesse James brand is the one we used the most. So red hot dogs are not just a Maine thing. My tastes have matured and evolved. I now like natural casing dogs like Boars Head and Hebrew National: whatever I can find locally. I've had Chicago dogs and they're ok. It does seem to be a bit of overkill. I also like to just char a dog on the grill and eat it plain with no bun.

[phaelon56]

We have a hot dog place called Heid's which is sort of a local institution ("Food You'll Like" is the motto on their cool Art Deco building). It was a major shock to purists and local hot dog fanatics when Heid's began offering ketchup as well as mustard. For ficty year or so, since their inception, they offered nought but brown deli mustard and relish for their dogs. Many local dog-hards were outraged when the premises were desecrated with the red stuff

[tommy]

i just got my 8 lbs of meat from usinger.

any thoughts on the best method of cooking these things? i'd like to maximize my enjoyment, and i also want to do a blind taste test (i basically ordered what holly and john the hotdog guy suggested).

[Jason Perlow]

i just got my 8 lbs of meat from usinger. 

any thoughts on the best method of cooking these things?  i'd like to maximize my enjoyment, and i also want to do a blind taste test (i basically ordered what holly and john the hotdog guy suggested).

Pan Fry/Grill in hot cast iron pan. Grill some up on your Weber as well, over charcoal if possible. Definitely not boil.

[John]

For the bratwurst, simmer (not boil) then finish on the grill. For the dogs, either simmer, then grill, or just cook them on a griddle. These dogs are so good, they even taste great right out of the water. Let us know what you think. You might want to throw another quality beef dog like Best or sabrett on the grill next to the Usinger's for purposes of comparison.

[bleachboy]

any thoughts on the best method of cooking these things? i'd like to maximize my enjoyment, and i also want to do a blind taste test (i basically ordered what holly and john the hotdog guy suggested).

After a few hot-dog-eating sessions (oh, what a chore!) I have decided that I agree with Holly -- split the fat sausages and franks before grilling, they'll be much easier to eat, and cook faster, to boot.

I cook mine in a cast iron grill pan over medium heat. Bratwurst cooked to 160, the franks don't matter (you're just heating them up).