Spoilage?

[ylm23]

My husband made soup stock last night, then left it out overnight. He says it will be OK because it will be boiled when it is reheated. I hate all that work to go to waste but I don't want us sick either.

I just read the "I will never" thread and feel much better that many others have pissed away stock that was obtained through great effort. But I digress,

Thoughts?

Edited December 30, 2005 by ylm23 (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

Reboil it now, before chilling it properly then put it away. If you wait to reboil it later, you're giving all those bacteria a lovely pool to reproduce in before the next boil, reducing storage time, if nothing worse. Kill them now. Then chill quickly in small containers in an ice bath.

[miladyinsanity]

If you want to leave stock out overnight, bring it up to a boil before switching the stove off. Then don't touch it again until the next day.

[NancyH]

Respectfully, I disagree with those who think this is safe to eat. If the soup cooled below 140 degrees, but stayed above 40 degrees, for more than four hours, it should be pitched - re-boiling it will not undo the damage that four plus hours in the "danger zone" has done.

When in doubt, throw it out.

[Pam R]

When in doubt, throw it out.

←

I agree. The 'danger zone' is called the danger zone for a reason. Why risk it?

[jgm]

Respectfully, I disagree with those who think this is safe to eat.  If the soup cooled below 140 degrees, but stayed above 40 degrees, for more than four hours, it should be pitched - re-boiling it will not undo the damage that four plus hours in the "danger zone" has done.

When in doubt, throw it out.

←

Could you expand on this? I had always thought that once bacteria are heated above a certain level, they would be killed. If you have more information, I'd be grateful. My own habits in this regard are a bit, uh, lax... and it looks like there are more things I need to know.

[annecros]

Don't the bacteria leave toxins in the food even after they are killed off by the heat? I think I heard somewhere that it was the toxins that bacteria leave, not the bacteria themselves, that made you sick.

Now, parasites are an entirely different, ummm, bug.

[NancyH]

I am hardly a food safety expert, but I am Certified in the Safe Food Handling for Occasional Quantity Cooks Program offered by the Ohio State University Extension. Annecros is correct that the bacteria that grow when food is in the danger zone create other toxins that are not destroyed by heating or cooling. That is why once food is "bad", it is bad and can't be recovered. This is different, say, than cross-contaminating a marinade while spreading it on the meat, but then promptly boiling the leftovers to use for a gravy on the cooked meat - it is the combination of time (4 hours or more) and temperature abuse (between 40 and 140) that turns food dangerous and beyond repair.

I am sure that the chefs and the other Serv-Safe trained among us can explain it better, but I was taught the 4 hour danger zone rule and I do believe the the axiom I quoted. I would rather throw something questionable out than get sick.

[Jmahl]

When in doubt check the FDA food safety web site.

FDA food safety

Then use your good judgment. having a good case of jellybelly is never any fun.

[ylm23]

The FDA site said you can't eat pizza that has been left out overnight! I don't know about you guys, but that was a major staple item in college for me, and I never once got sick from it. So I find the FDA too restrictive.

[Mayhaw Man]

Then use your good judgment. 

←

Well, that cuts me out of the deal completely.

Dammit.

[ylm23]

We reboiled it for 10 minutes in the morning, and made soup last night. So far, so good. We recognize that food poisoning can incubate for up to 3 days, but will report back to confirm everything is OK.

[Patrick S]

The FDA site said you can't eat pizza that has been left out overnight! I don't know about you guys, but that was a major staple item in college for me, and I never once got sick from it. So I find the FDA too restrictive.

←

Sure. FDA guidelines are very restrictive in that they are usually intended to eliminate risks as far as possible, even if the absolute risk of illness is already very small. For instance, you'd have to eat many thousands of raw eggs in order to have a good chance of eating one infected with Salmonella. And even if you consume one, there is a good chance that you will not get sick. BUT, you might be really unlucky, or compromised in your ability to fight foodbourne disease, and the first raw egg you consume is packed with Salmonella, and you die from complications of salmonellosis. So FDA recommends that no one ever consume raw eggs.

[Petrissage]

My husband made soup stock last night, then left it out overnight. He says it will be OK because it will be boiled when it is reheated. I hate all that work to go to waste but I don't want us sick either. 

←

Been there, done that, more than once, lived to tell --- here is why. One of my husband's best friends is our state epidemiologist, who gave the following directions to my husband about a similar soup situation, except that my husband's pot had quite a bit of meat in it.

Be sure not to put your fingers into the soup and be sure that you have not put your fingers into the soup since it cooled. Then, even a stew with meat in it should be safe after twenty minutes of boiling. If you have touched the food since it cooled, toss it.

We got this advice 15 years ago and have lived to tell. I hope this helps.

[annecros]

My husband made soup stock last night, then left it out overnight. He says it will be OK because it will be boiled when it is reheated. I hate all that work to go to waste but I don't want us sick either. 

←

Been there, done that, more than once, lived to tell --- here is why. One of my husband's best friends is our state epidemiologist, who gave the following directions to my husband about a similar soup situation, except that my husband's pot had quite a bit of meat in it.

Be sure not to put your fingers into the soup and be sure that you have not put your fingers into the soup since it cooled. Then, even a stew with meat in it should be safe after twenty minutes of boiling. If you have touched the food since it cooled, toss it.

We got this advice 15 years ago and have lived to tell. I hope this helps.

←

Hmm. I thought it was the general consensus that the lactobaccilis on the cook's skin was the positive bacteria that kept sourdough "good".

Sourdough confuses me anyway. Seems a very elaborate dance. Saur kraut confuses me a bit too, but the natural acid and salt levels make a bit more sense than the flour/water/yeast/bacteria thing.

One thing I do know, I love it!

Mom was really bad about leaving food out. The food suffered, and I am sure more than one "stomach virus" can be attributed to it. I just don't do it, and will toss it if it is left out accidentally.

[jgm]

I can attest that the "rules" don't always work the way they're "supposed" to.

A few years ago, I had a boss who was an incredibly horrible person. It was her habit to order fast food, and "not have time to eat it" (feeling sorry for herself about how overworked she was --actually, she wasn't, she just screwed around a lot), and then retrieve it, the next day, from the trunk of her car and eat it.

You don't know how fervently I prayed for her to get sick -- really, really, really sick. Or even sicker than that.

She never did.

I eventually abandoned ship, found a better job, and she was fired, two years later, for being absolutely horrible to her employees.

[ylm23]

Thanks everyone for their feedback. We had not put any of our human limbs in the stock, and there was no meat in it ...which is part of why we thought we were safe. Four days later we are still fine, no ill effects.