"Help me with this recipe!"

[srhcb]

Hi there,

I'm making this key lime pie recipe and I'm little confused.

Are the ounces (graham crackers and butter) here weight measurements or volume? How can you tell?

Thanks!

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I'd say weight.

[Tweety69bird]

I'd say weight too.

[DerekW]

Are the ounces ... here weight measurements or volume? How can you tell?

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Another vote for weight. It's an American recipe, and the majority of those Americans who have not yet embraced the Kitchen Scale manifesto seem to tend towards cup measures for volumes.

Otherwise, volume would be Fl.Oz. - fluid ounces. That said, I've seen oz. used as an abbreviation for fluid ounces, but context usually makes clear.

[lutefisk]

Ok. Goin' with weight.

Thanks!

[Kim Shook]

My great grandmother, Ma, was one of those legendary family cooks. Every family has one, I think. Every person who ever ate at her house raves about her cooking. She passed when I was only about 10 years old, but I do remember eating vegetables that I never touched before or since and loving them. My grandmother has an old Steno pad full of recipes that she convinced Ma to sit down and write out. Over the years, I’ve copied a lot of them out. Some worked and some didn’t – as a matter of fact the folks here helped to decipher an apple cake recipe for me a couple of years ago. The most recent one that I’ve copied is for Date Roll. I had to Google that – I don’t think I’ve ever had it, but the older members of the family remember it fondly. I’d love some help with this one. Here’s the recipe, as written:

2 c. sugar

1/2 c. milk

Butter – size of an egg

1/2 box dates

1 c. nuts

Mix sugar, milk and butter and bring to a boil. Add dates. Stir until it will form a soft ball.

Add nuts and beat until it thickens. Pour over wet cloth and roll.

That’s it. Now here are my questions:

2 T. butter?

How many dates would you think and I assume that I’m to chop them?

What kind of nuts would work best (again – I assume I’m to chop them)?

“Form a soft ball” – does this mean to cook to 235 degrees or something else?

Do I add the nuts over the heat or off?

“Pour over wet cloth” ??????????

Refrigerate? I assume sliced.

I’ve Googled some recipes, but I’m just not sure if current recipes are the same as one that was made probably 50 years ago or more. Thanks so much!

[ruthcooks]

I remember when dates came in a box. I'd guess the box was about a half pound or possibly a little more. Yes, soft ball is 235, don't know what else it could be. Never heard of this candy, though.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

Butter the size of an egg is usually about 1/4 cup, at least in recipes I've adapted from my gran.

[andiesenji]

Hi Kim

Butter - size of an egg - would be about 1/4 cup. Size of a walnut = 2 tablespoons, and an egg is about double the size of a walnut.

In the '40s I know dates were commonly sold in boxes of 1 pound, 2 pounds and 5 pounds. They were fairly heavy and always contained the seeds so had to be seeded before chopping.

From the amount of sugar, I would estimate at least one cup of chopped dates.

This is really a candy recipe.

Probably pecans or walnuts but any nut works just fine.

I have a similar one that is called "Southern" Date/Nut Roll and after cooking, is spread out, sprinkled with nuts (and sometimes grated coconut) and rolled into a log, wrapped in (wax) paper and chilled, then sliced and tossed in powdered sugar to coat so they don't stick together. I have used pistachio nuts with good results, as well as the "usual suspects."

Here's a link to similar recipes to mine.

And regarding old butter measurements, besides the ones noted above. Size of a pigeon's egg = 1 tablespoon

"generous knob" = half a cup, "fist" or "gill" = 1 cup.

You can make the same type candy with figs - turns out something like the filling in a Fig Newton.

There is also a version made with half dates and half dried apricots - not quite as sweet because of the apricots add a bit of tartness.

Edited March 6, 2012 by andiesenji (log)

[AAQuesada]

Rolled like a torchon maybe? the chilled and sliced... Just a thought

[HungryC]

Yep, that's an old school date roll...still pretty common during the holidays in the deep South. Some variations call for evaporated milk. You can pour it onto a Silpat-lined sheet pan, then shape it into a log as it cools a bit. Or pour it into a lined quarter sheet pan and cut into squares like fudge. It's really sticky sweet and could benefit from a little contrast--try using salted nuts, or sprinkling some date-friendly spices on top.

[Jaymes]

It was "Date Nut Loaf" in our house and was my mother's very favorite sweet. We never, ever had a Christmas without it. My mother also loved pecans and her version was chock-full of them, so all those nuts cut a lot of the sweetness. She rolled it up in a damp dishtowel and into the fridge, or freezer, it went.

[Chris Amirault]

My grandmother made these rolled in coconut: very simple, tasty items!

I'm quite sure that "soft ball" doesn't have anything to do with temp but, rather, rolling the ground dates into a ball. So just stir it until the liquid has evaporated sufficiently to allow you to roll the date meat into a ball, sort of a firm cookie dough consistency.

[Jaymes]

My grandmother made these rolled in coconut: very simple, tasty items!

I'm quite sure that "soft ball" doesn't have anything to do with temp but, rather, rolling the ground dates into a ball. So just stir it until the liquid has evaporated sufficiently to allow you to roll the date meat into a ball, sort of a firm cookie dough consistency.

No. "Soft ball" definitely meant the temperature the cooking candy reached. Having made this and many other recipes for years before I ever bothered to buy a candy thermometer, I can tell you that what you did to determine what temperature the boiling candy had reached was to get a glass (in our case, a glass measuring cup) and fill it with ice water. You dropped a spoonful of the candy into that ice water and then plied it with your fingers. "Soft ball" was when it would just hold together and form an, um, "soft ball." It went up to "firm ball," "hard ball," "soft crack," and "hard crack." The "crack" referred to the sound it made when you hit the ball against the side of the glass.

"Soft ball" is about 236-240 on your candy thermometer and is exactly what my mama's Date Nut Loaf called for.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Jaymes (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, as I've just confirmed what I wrote with my family. Two different recipes, it seems; perhaps Jaymes is right that this is candy and not the little date balls, or, perhaps not.

[Jaymes]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, as I've just confirmed what I wrote with my family. Two different recipes, it seems; perhaps Jaymes is right that this is candy and not the little date balls, or, perhaps not.

And right you undoubtedly are for whatever it is your family makes.

But in the original recipe posted above, "Ma" was making candy. Candy that she, just like my Ma, poured onto a wet cloth and patted into something of a log shape, and then rolled up and chilled, and then after it was chilled and firm, sliced into rounds about the size of a small cookie.

Candy that would not properly "set up" until it was cooked to a "soft ball" stage.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Jaymes (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Fully aware of what "soft ball" means in candy making, and I realize you made candy. But I didn't see that Kim specified it was candy. Did she?

[Jaymes]

Fully aware of what "soft ball" means in candy making, and I realize you made candy. But I didn't see that Kim specified it was candy. Did she?

Well, she's boiling sugar and milk and butter until it will "form a soft ball." Whereupon you beat it. And then she says, "Pour over wet cloth and roll."

And since I watched my mother and grandmother and aunts do the EXACT SAME THING for decades, and since I've never heard of another recipe wherein you pour it onto a wet cloth and roll, it sounds like candy to me.

But whatever...

[Fantastic Mr Fox]

Fully aware of what "soft ball" means in candy making, and I realize you made candy. But I didn't see that Kim specified it was candy. Did she?

Well, she's boiling sugar and milk and butter until it will "form a soft ball." Whereupon you beat it. And then she says, "Pour over wet cloth and roll."

And since I watched my mother and grandmother and aunts do the EXACT SAME THING for decades, and since I've never heard of another recipe wherein you pour it onto a wet cloth and roll, it sounds like candy to me.

But whatever...

For the sake of argument, she also never stated that she was sure it was a complete recipe. She did say that it was copied by hand from a steno pad of notes. What if the recipe is missing some amount of flour and it is really a cake of some sort?

[HungryC]

A google search will turn up beaucoup date candy recipes with nearly identical ingredients and even similar "roll in a towel" instructions. This is a super common recipe in community cookbooks from the 40s onward.

[Jaymes]

Fully aware of what "soft ball" means in candy making, and I realize you made candy. But I didn't see that Kim specified it was candy. Did she?

Well, she's boiling sugar and milk and butter until it will "form a soft ball." Whereupon you beat it. And then she says, "Pour over wet cloth and roll."

And since I watched my mother and grandmother and aunts do the EXACT SAME THING for decades, and since I've never heard of another recipe wherein you pour it onto a wet cloth and roll, it sounds like candy to me.

But whatever...

For the sake of argument, she also never stated that she was sure it was a complete recipe. She did say that it was copied by hand from a steno pad of notes. What if the recipe is missing some amount of flour and it is really a cake of some sort?

Right. That's an excellent point. It quite likely might be a cake, and just missing the mention of flour. And any sort of pouring into any sort of baking container. And any sort of baking.

And it's probably just coincidence that the list of ingredients that IS there, and the methodology, including the boiling of the ingredients to the "soft ball" stage, and the pouring onto the wet cloth, and the rolling up, and the chilling, is exactly identical to a candy recipe that, as HungryC mentions, is one of "beaucoup date candy recipes with nearly identical ingredients and even similar 'roll in a towel' instructions" and "is a super common recipe in community cookbooks from the 40s onward."

Although I suppose one could have poured the "cake batter" into the wet towel and rolled it up just as easily.

Obviously, I jumped to the conclusion that it is a candy far too hastily.

[andiesenji]

Obviously, I jumped to the conclusion that it is a candy far too hastily.

Naaaaaaa - In my opinion you are 100% correct.

[Kim Shook]

Thanks so much for all the help! I can't wait to try them now! I had assumed that these were candies, but I double checked anyway with my grandmother and they are candies. Soft and chewy (like a Squirrel Nut Zipper, it sounds like), but candy all the same. I've never heard the wet cloth technique. And with all of the discussion, I'm now thinking that they would be delicious with a good amount of ground almonds, cooked like Chris suggested (just until they 'seize up') to a cooky consistancy. Time for some experimenting. I'll make Ma's candies and 'my' cookies!

I knew I could count on you folks!

[naguere]

Spot on Jaymes

[onrushpam]

My grandmothers version of this has Rice Krispies and then is rolled in either nuts or coconut. The crunch from the cereal is a great contrast to the chewiness of the dates.

[Mjx]

My grandmother made these rolled in coconut: very simple, tasty items!

I'm quite sure that "soft ball" doesn't have anything to do with temp but, rather, rolling the ground dates into a ball. So just stir it until the liquid has evaporated sufficiently to allow you to roll the date meat into a ball, sort of a firm cookie dough consistency.

No. "Soft ball" definitely meant the temperature the cooking candy reached. Having made this and many other recipes for years before I ever bothered to buy a candy thermometer, I can tell you that what you did to determine what temperature the boiling candy had reached was to get a glass (in our case, a glass measuring cup) and fill it with ice water. You dropped a spoonful of the candy into that ice water and then plied it with your fingers. "Soft ball" was when it would just hold together and form an, um, "soft ball." It went up to "firm ball," "hard ball," "soft crack," and "hard crack." The "crack" referred to the sound it made when you hit the ball against the side of the glass.

"Soft ball" is about 236-240 on your candy thermometer and is exactly what my mama's Date Nut Loaf called for.

Reading through the all posts for this topic, it seems that the take on this recipe is at least somewhat generationally bound; my own understanding of 'date roll' is the same as Chris A's, both because of the sorts of date sweets I recollect eating when I was a kid, and the recipes I'm familiar with that refer to various 'ball' stages, all of which have the sugar syrup alone reach the desired stage, before any other ingredient is added.