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Michael M

Best dishwasher

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Thanks, Linda. The racks in the Asko are pretty great--the top one is adjustable like the Bosch. The basket is way cool: it can be positioned anywhere along the front. Well, for that price it better be well designed. Another good feature (and I think the Bosch has this too) is the short cycle, which is only 35 minutes. I never run back-to-back cycles; we don't have enough friends or enough flatware. This model has the controls on the front, and a little LED indicator light which appeals to my husband. See, I'm already justifying this purchase on the basis of about $75 worth of gimmicks. So, Asko it is.

The sticker shock is palpable. We were already feeling a pinch when we decided we wanted a lower end KA or Bosch and were thinking we would have to spend $600-700 to get that. We also would have saved on installation. I think we could have installed a KA ourselves, but just in case anyone wants to know, the Asko has a reputation for complicated installation, so we are not going to attempt it.

This is indeed a very helpful thread.

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Katie,

If you are dealing only with a height issue for fitting your dishwasher, you may be able to notch out the subcounter under your countertop to get the 1/4" you need. It depends on how everything was constructed - if there is a 3/4" subcounter, taking 1/4" off should leave enough support - and it may only be required for the front portion as at least some dishwashers have a top profile that dips down. I've seen this done for under the counter wine coolers and subzero drawer fridges. It takes a little carpentry skill - might be cheaper to go for the expensive dishwasher!

Good luck.

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My favorite thing about this thread is learning that there is a dishwasher, the Hobart, that cleans on a 90 second cycle. I was sure that it was a typo when I first read it. How is that possible?? No wonder it sounds like an airplane.

The Hobart undercounter dishwasher I bought in 1994 was essentially the same as this one.

At the time my kitchen was certified for commercial cooking/baking (not easy in L.A. county or Calif., for that matter) and required a sanitizing dishwasher. I also did a lot of canning and needed it to sterilize the canning jars.

These dishwashers do not have built-in racks. It uses "loose" trays or racks which hold various items. I had 12 of various configurations for cups, stemware, plates, etc., as well as open ones for big pots and pans.

It was helpful that I could load all the small stuff with the rack sitting on a counter or on a rolling cart then shove it into dishwasher, much less bending than with a conventional dishwasher. In 1994 I paid 3800. for the Hobart and I certainly got my money's worth.

It isn't really feasible for most people but for those who entertain a great deal or who have large families, it is a godsend. I do know a family with seven children plus two sets of grandparents and an adult sister living with them who got one a few years ago and it has saved a lot of wear and tear on my friend's nerves, just because the huge chore of dishwashing for 16 people is much easier than it was.


"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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After another half day of shopping at the showroom with the most dishwashers and the best floor help and very good prices (plus free hotdogs, popcorn, bottled water, and just-baked cookies if you can believe this) we have determined our kitchen remodel of 1992 will probably haunt us into the grave. The space in which our old KitchenAid just fit will not accomodate any new KitchenAid and almost nothing else. We're talking about a quarter inch of space here.

Aside from some very short low-end American models that don't have stainless tubs (which I want), would require inventive carpentry to hide its low stature and which exist only to comply with the American Disabilities Act, there are only two models that are adjustable down by that critical quarter inch we need: a high-end Bosch for something like $1200 and a lower end Asko which we can get for $850.

If anyone has anything nice to say about Asko, now's the time. I did read this full thread, and it sounds like A) not too many people have them, and B) they may need more repairs than KA and Bosch and may not last as long but C) if you're lucky you will get a good one and be happy with it. $850 (white ext. panel, not ss) seems like a good price for an Asko. More money than we were expecting to pay, but the racks are really nice and you can stick on a strip that's in French to explain the cute little icons on the front. And since we're not French that seems cool.

There's a rebate being offered now. http://www.askousa.com/customer-care/rebate-programs/


Ilene

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A couple of months ago I replaced my old dishwasher with a high end LG, the one with steam cycle. I picked LG mainly because I was so happy with the LG washer and dryer I purchased a few months earlier. Then I read some unflattering reviews on the LG somewhere on the internet.

My only complaint so far is that my plates don't seem to fit the racks very well, and the racks are very adjustable. For example, if I put 8 plates in the rack, and they're all upright, they have a tendency to tip forward like a row of dominos.

Other than that, I'm happy with the "cleaning power" of the LG. I pre-rinse, however. Not sure if I really need to do that. Cleaning cycle is long, 2 hrs. 18 minutes for normal cycle. Over an hour for quick cycle. Cool blue lights on the interior. You have the option to wash just the top or bottom rack, but I don't think I've even tried that.

Although I'm reasonably happy with the LG, if I'd known about the Hobart under-the-counter washers, that's the one I covet. 90 seconds a cycle would be excellent.

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I'll put in a good word for Asko. I'm on my second one. The first one failed after about ten years, and I was not inclined to buy another one, in spite of their tremendous efficiency and quietness. But after a series of misadventures also having to do with a quarter-inch of space, I did get another one a couple of years ago. The company had made some changes and also has a very good warranty now--I assume to overcome the bad reputation for repairs. I've had no problems with the new one, and Asko's are still a very good machines when they're working.

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Katie,

If you are dealing only with a height issue for fitting your dishwasher, you may be able to notch out the subcounter under your countertop to get the 1/4" you need. It depends on how everything was constructed - if there is a 3/4" subcounter, taking 1/4" off should leave enough support - and it may only be required for the front portion as at least some dishwashers have a top profile that dips down. I've seen this done for under the counter wine coolers and subzero drawer fridges. It takes a little carpentry skill - might be cheaper to go for the expensive dishwasher!

Good luck.

Tsquare, it was already notched or (more likely) gouged out in '92 when the remodel was done to accomodate the the KA that just went kaput. Our problem was that we didn't replace cabinets but we did lift the floor up because we put down a mortar bed and ceramic tile.

Thanks, Catherine, those words are music to my ears. I also found some friends of friends who like theirs so much they put another one in their second home. For better or worse it is now on order.

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Here's my update on the dishwasher search. We did indeed get the Asko that fits in our space. The limitation of the short Asko that complies w/the American Disabilities Act is that the manufacturer appears to have made the judgement that the distance between the lower and upper racks needs to be about as tall as in the standard tall tub models, so the sacrifice is in the depth of the upper rack. My wineglasses just barely clear the top, but they do clear it. In the showroom I was only able to see the regular size model, and the top rack is fabulous. This one is not adjustable, which I didn't realize, since some of the publicity materials were misleading.

Aside from this problem it works great, so far! With the absolute minimum of soap and no Rinse Aid (we don't have hard water) the dishes are sparkling clean. The machine, as expected, is about 100 times quieter than the 17 yr-old model it replaced, but it isn't completely silent. I am guessing the Bosch may make a quieter dishwasher, but this one is pretty quiet and it's fine for us--I can't hear it in the dining room.

The only design flaw is that there isn't a lot of variety in the distance between the dividers; they are very close, so, depending upon your dishes, you may have some bowls and plates that don't fit as economically as they might.

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Congratulations! Considering the cost, functionality considerations, and the noise factor, buying a dishwasher is a stressful appliance decision. It's good to know more about the Asko, too, which is not the best known model in the U.S market. As for the quiet factor, I'm guessing that they're all becoming more so and that the difference today between a Bosch and an Asko is not that great.



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I don't know if it's the electronics involved or what, but given everything I have read and heard, we should consider ourselves lucky to get seven or eight years out of a new dishwasher today.

The dishwasher in the house when we moved in was about 30 yrs old, a KA on its last legs. Our replacement was a KA that lasted 17 yrs. Maybe this new Asko will last 8 years? Will the next generation last 4 yrs? Sad.

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I'm also in the market for a dishwasher, but I'm hoping to keep it under $600. Are there any good options for that price? I read this whole thread earlier today, and most of the ones mentioned sound pretty expensive. I'm wanting to replace my range and refrigerator soon, so I need to save some up for those as well.

I don't know what sort of dishwasher I have right now, but it's been in the house for at least the 10 years we've been here. It works fine; nothing too exciting about it.

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I'm also in the market for a dishwasher, but I'm hoping to keep it under $600.  Are there any good options for that price? 

We recently replaced ours and after much research went with a lower-end Bosch. It was in the $900 range. We LOVE it! We tried to find something less pricey, but just couldn't come up with anything we thought we'd be happy with.

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I'm also in the market for a dishwasher, but I'm hoping to keep it under $600.  Are there any good options for that price?  I read this whole thread earlier today, and most of the ones mentioned sound pretty expensive.  I'm wanting to replace my range and refrigerator soon, so I need to save some up for those as well. 

Hi Terrasanct, how are you? Yeah, the prices are shocking on an appliance you haven't costed out for about 10 years or 17 years!

Pretty hard to find one with a stainless steel interior tub for under $600, if that's what you want. My inlaws got a decent GE for their beach house that holds a lot of dishes and cleans well, includes a good wineglass clip and a deep top rack and that was less than $500 I believe. I have a friend who is happy with an Amana that was in that same range.

$900 sounds more like a mid-range Bosch to me. I looked at a Bosch for under $700 that I would consider low-end. The lowest-end KA was priced at $679, and a little higher than the lowest-end Bosch we could find. Both of these come with the $50 energy saver rebate, and so did the Asko. These all have stainless tubs, and are quieter than the cheaper American ones. Sears Kenmore Elite, the competition for the European dishwashers, is supposed to be highly rated, and Sears has the best deal on installation, but the low-end models were priced higher than the lowest Bosch or KA when I checked.

I have a friend who is looking now as well, and he's a super-careful researcher. He was told that installation on all these new dishwashers is more complicated than it used to be, so that swayed me not to have my husband install it, since he's only moderately good with plumbing.

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My daughter got a new dishwasher while I was visiting a few weeks ago--and while she got the cheapest one she could find (she's renting) Home Depot delivered and installed it for a really reasonable price. I wouldn't consider doing it myself at all--leave that to the people who know how!

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We haven't installed it yet, but my wife went for the Electrolux. Might be worth looking at the features.

Because of new cabinets, new cork floor, moving a wall, me getting a Sub Zero (!), double Electrolux oven, cooktop on an island, it will be awhile before it is up & running, but I'll report back after it has a month of washing under it's belt.


Carpe Carp: Seize that fish!

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Has anyone here ever bought a portable or a "compact" (18") dishwasher? We're looking at buying a house where those would be our only options, I think. The kitchen's an ok size but only has counters (and water) on one side, and we're not looking to do a major remodel when we first move in. :)

Thanks!


Joanna G. Hurley

"Civilization means food and literature all round." -Aldous Huxley

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Has anyone here ever bought a portable or a "compact" (18") dishwasher? We're looking at buying a house where those would be our only options, I think. The kitchen's an ok size but only has counters (and water) on one side, and we're not looking to do a major remodel when we first move in. :)

Thanks!

My friend's first dishwasher is a Miele 18" built in. She loves it.

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We recently replaced ours and after much research went with a lower-end Bosch.  It was in the $900 range.  We LOVE it! We tried to find something less pricey, but just couldn't come up with anything we thought we'd be happy with.

I've been seeing lower-end Bosch's dishwashers for around $500, which would be cheaper than some other dishwashers from other manufacturers. Although, at that price, I'm curious how the quality holds up.

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<snip>

I'll report back after it has a month of washing under it's belt.

Yeah, that is always the toughest area to keep clean! :shock:

-sabine

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Edwardsboi, $500 for a Bosch seems like a very good price. If it's a model that sells for more other places, it would certainly be worth considering. The lifespan of new dishwashers seems to be 6-8 years. If you pay $800 and get 8 years out of your dishwasher you are paying $100 a year for not having to do dishes by hand. If you pay $500 and only get six years out of it, you're ahead. Often the motor is the same for several models, and the features bump up the price. Frankly I think it's a crapshoot. If I hadn't had a space/construction issue I would have gone for a $500 Bosch (if I had found one) instead of the more expensive Asko.

I'm going to update my remarks about the Asko and then I will shut up. My husband is over the moon about it, since we've discovered that it does a great job using A HALF TABLESPOON OF detergent and the lower energy-using cycle (as long as the dishes aren't caked with dried food.) And the racks hold an amazing amount of dishes. In fact, we still have room for more bowls and plates after all our flatware is used, which never happened with the old KA. Now, only time will tell.

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We're unhappily in the market for a built-in dishwasher and trying to balance the following factors:

  • We may not be living in this house for another decade, and given the typical real estate buyer for our house a Bosch, Miele, or Asko would be considered a liability.
  • Our family of four (12 and 4 year olds respectively) makes nearly all of its own food and thus produces lots of crusty plates and pans, greasy glasses, etc. I want to stick everything in the dishwasher without rinsing or scraping if at all possible.
  • I can't get any solid information on sanitizing, but if a model allows me to put a raw-chicken-covered plastic cutting board that comes out squeaky clean and sanitized, that's a plus. Some of the boards are large, as well, 14-16", and don't fit in the current machine.
  • Gotta be EnergyStar.

From that list of criteria, we're looking at the following models:

KitchenAid KUDC03IVBS

KitchenAid KUDS30IVSS

KitchenAid KUDC20CVSS

KitchenAid KUDS40CVSS

Whirlpool GU2800XTVY

Whirlpool GU2475XTVY

Whirlpool GU2300XTVS

I'd also be interested in opinions on Kenmores but their website is driving me nuts so I don't have a model list.


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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Comparing the two lines, it looks like the main trade-offs are: Whirlpool is a little cheaper, but offers the "NSF Sani Rinse" option. KitchenAid has stainless tubs and food grinders. If it was my money, I'd go for the KUDS30IVSS with the ProScrub option. (We have a 25-year-old Kitchen Aid that's still going strong.) It might worth jumping up to the KUDE45CVSS -- stainless interior, food grinder and Sani Rinse, and only $100 more than the KUDS40CVSS.

If you go the other direction, keep in mind that Whirlpool makes a good part of the Kenmore line, so as long as you compare like models, you can shop on price between the two. Also, for anything that Sears sells, it's worth checking their outlets -- scratch-and-dents and discontinued models that still carry full warranties, at sometimes ridiculous prices.


Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory

Eat more chicken skin.

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Whirlpool and Kitchenaid are the same company. Kitchenaid is their "up scale" line.

A stainless interior is pretty but really doesn't add any function. Some foods and water may stain the plastic, but unless that really bothers you aesthetically, it won't affect the ability to wash.

Kitchenaids tend to be quieter than their Whirlpool counterparts and will have a more stylish look. They should both have food grinders.

(Maytag is also now Whirlpool, but back when I sold appliances (now three years ago), the Matyags where still the original Maytag designs. Stay Away! They are/were terrible.) Also stay away from Frigidaire.

I really liked the LG dishwashers. Quieter than a Bosch and has a food grinder - the Bosch does not (or didn't then). It also had one really cool feature - the ability to do a "half wash" of the lower or upper. Not only does this save energy but it also lets you turn off the top wash, remove the top rack and now you have a HUGE washing area for really big items like oven and BBQ grates, etc. Many DWs have a half wash feature, but usually it was full or top. Having a top/bottom/full option lets you use the full tub trick.

Now here's the most important thing about buying a dishwasher, IMHO. The design of the racks. Hardly anyone thinks about this. I encourage you to bring in your example dishware, especially the big awkward stuff and glassware, and try various stacking arrangements.

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Thanks, guys. I just got back from three stores and have a better sense of what we're looking for, which I can articulate best in response to the posts you wrote.

Comparing the two lines, it looks like the main trade-offs are: Whirlpool is a little cheaper, but offers the "NSF Sani Rinse" option.

I had a hard time figuring out what "Sani Rinse" means, and sales people weren't too good at explaining it either. In addition, most upper-range models have high heat settings.

If you go the other direction, keep in mind that Whirlpool makes a good part of the Kenmore line, so as long as you compare like models, you can shop on price between the two. Also, for anything that Sears sells, it's worth checking their outlets -- scratch-and-dents and discontinued models that still carry full warranties, at sometimes ridiculous prices.

The Kenmore 1374 got a CR best buy and looked very impressive in the showroom today. It seems to have all that we're looking for, and is currently on sale. More on that below.

A stainless interior is pretty but really doesn't add any function. Some foods and water may stain the plastic, but unless that really bothers you aesthetically, it won't affect the ability to wash.

That's helpful. On the showfloor, salespeople upsell the stainless interior by talking about it retaining heat more (thus helping with no heat drying cycles), but I can't see that mattering to us. Ditto the "half wash" LG feature: we counted 10 full washes last week. :wink:

Now here's the most important thing about buying a dishwasher, IMHO. The design of the racks. Hardly anyone thinks about this. I encourage you to bring in your example dishware, especially the big awkward stuff and glassware, and try various stacking arrangements.

I'm so glad to read this, as I approached the three showrooms thinking that I would take notes on features but not obsess over them, ignore external design (it's a butt-ugly machine no matter what you do with it), and focus on day-to-day use, which means racks. I measured our biggest cutting board (fits in the Kenmore, not in the KitchenAids), and thought long and hard about when loading the machine stinks: dinner parties, big pans, cocktail glasses, plastic cups, serving utensils. That Kenmore looks like it'd take all we can dish out in that regard.

So here's an interesting feature: the Turbo Zone, which consists of four red uber-jets in the lower half of the back interior wall. The idea is that you put heavily soiled stuff in the tilted back bottom rack and let the Turbo Zone jets blast away. There are a few situations in which I can imagine that would be pretty terrific -- the roasting pan, say, or a couple of saute pans -- but only if it works. Anyone got feedback?

Oh, and: assuming that I have the home-repair know-how of a chimp, should I pay for installation or give it a go?


Edited by Chris Amirault (log)

Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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Chris,

No experience with the uber-jets, sorry. Be sure to ask the Sears folks who makes the model you like - chances are it's Whirlpool but beware if it's Frigidaire. (I never heard of anyone but Whirlpool making DWs for Sears, but times change.)

I would strongly encourage you to take the dishware in to the store and put it in the racks. Measuring will give you an idea but you won't necessarily notice some clearance issues - the biggest one being the spray arm on the bottom of the upper rack. It has to be able to twirl without hitting the dishware.

LG Half-wash: As I said, the coolest part of this is being able to do a full tub wash without the upper rack in place. Lets you wash the ocassional really big item.

Installation: If you have no skills (especially plumbing) then have an installer do it. DWs aren't particularly hard to install, but a lot depends on where the water source and drain lines are and how easy it will be to re-route/replace if necessary. The installer will also typically recycle your old machine for you as part of the deal. Biggest deal here is to measure from the top of your flooring (outside the cavity as well as in - outside is typically higher!) to the lip of your counter overhang. The DW has to capable of sliding in directly - you can't angle it because they are too deep. Big counter overhangs and built-up layers of flooring that have "trapped" a DW in place are the biggest install problems. And be forewarned - if this is an issue an installer will walk away from the job and leave you with an un-installed DW.


Edited by mgaretz (log)

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