Sugars in Japan

[torakris]

I decided to separate this from the salt thread so it doesn't get lost in there!

I found a very interesting site all about this stuff including how it is made and its uses, look here:

http://www.wasanbon.co.jp/wasanbon/index.html

[Michael Laiskonis]

Thanks, Kristin.

Though a mere side project for now, I want to figure all of this out, and as I learn more, I'll report back!

[torakris]

I too have become interested in this and so today at the grocery store I found it and bought it. It is quite expensive, 180 grams costs \700 (about $6.50) in comparison plain white sugar would cost between \20 and \40 for the same amount.

It says to use it with mochi, bread or dango (rice balls) or to sprinkle it on grapefruits and strawberries or to use it to sweeten your coffee or tea.

Today I ran across a recipe for it in a new magazine, it is for a type of Japanese confection made with egg yolks and yuzu rind.

It really has a wonderful taste, similar to that of brown sugar but much more refined and smooth, it is ground into a very fine powder with a texture maybe similar to a very fine pastry flour.

I think I will try it on some grapefruit!

[torakris]

I was talking to my pastry chef friend yesterday and I asked her about uses for wasanbon in Western style desserts. She felt that the delicate flavor would be lost (and it would be a waste of money) to use it in most of the Western style sweets where the other flavors would overpower it. She suggested (though she had never tried it) in jellied applications especially with fruit where the taste of the sugar would come out. She said she would never use in applications at her shop because the cost is too high.

Here is a plug for my friends shop

http://www.cakepia.info/shop/recommendatio...ange/index.html

click on menu and there are 3 pages with pictures of some of their cakes, page 3 is all done by my friend while the first 2 pages are the work of her husband. They both studied in Paris.

[torakris]

I was hanging out at the sandbox this morning with my son and some of my other neighbors when my pastry chef friend (mentioned in the above post) came out with some samples of a cake she was working on.

She told me that since I asked her about wasanbon a couple months ago she hasn't stopped thinking about it and this cake was one of her experiments with it. It was a roll cake made with wasanbon instead of regular sugar and then it was rolled with a layer of fresh cream and in the middle was a custard made with wasanbon as well. It was absolutely delicious and the custard was incredible. I would definitely pay money for this!

[torakris]

Ｗｅｌｌ　ｍｙ　ｆｒｉｅｎｄ has decided to start selling the roll cakes at her bakery and I bought one for dessert last night.

I can't help but think that I may be responsible for a new wasanbon trend in Japan....

[prasantrin]

Another baking related question...

What are the differences between the different Japanese sugars? Regular Japanese sugar seems to have more moisture than US sugar, while what's marketed as "granulated sugar" seems to me more like US sugar, but has larger granules (I think). Which would be a better substitute for US granulated sugar? I usually just use the regular stuff, since granulated sugar is more expensive, but I'm wondering if granulated might give me a better product (for cakes, cookies, etc.). If you use the regular stuff, do you substitute 1:1 in US recipes, or use some other ratio? Do you pack it to measure it, or just measure as you would for US sugar?

And there's another kind of sugar, that's similar to US light brown sugar, but it's quite a bit lighter. Is it the same thing as US light brown sugar? Or is it different in some way? Some of my friends just use it, and they say they don't notice any differences, but I'm wary...

And kurozato--can I use that instead of dark brown sugar? It seems to have less moisture.

Any other sugars I've missed?

[torakris]

I use granulated sugar in all my American recipes and the regular Japanese sugar in Japanese recipes that don't specify granulated.

If I have to substitute the Japanese white sugar for granulated because I am out of it then I pack it in the cup just like you would do for brown sugar.

The Japanese brown sugar in called sanontou 三温糖、I use it in place of light brown sugar and dark brown sugar. I have noticed someplaces sell a product called "brown sugar" (in katakana) but I am not sure how this differs from sanontou. I have never had a probelm or noticed a difference in flavor when I use sanontou in place of brown sugar.

[torakris]

also

kurozatou/kokutou thread

and

wasanbon thread

[Hiroyuki]

Great thread. I've wanted to start a thread like this ever since I learned from torakris that there is no kurazatou in the United States.

I have a question about shirozatou 白砂糖 (also known as jouhakutou 上白糖). It's the most popular type of sugar in Japan. I googled to find that this type of sugar is used in Japan and some parts of Asia only. The most popular type in the rest of the world is granulated sugar. I tried to find an answer why it is so, but failed.

Any thoughts?

[prasantrin]

I have a question about shirozatou 白砂糖 (also known as jouhakutou 上白糖).  It's the most popular type of sugar in Japan.  I googled to find that this type of sugar is used in Japan and some parts of Asia only.  The most popular type in the rest of the world is granulated sugar.  I tried to find an answer why it is so, but failed.

Any thoughts?

←

Have you ever started a topic, and then forgotten that you started it? Oops

I wonder if it has something to do with preferred processing--Japanese prefer less processing? A long time ago, I was told that jouhakutou is less processed than NA-style granulated sugar. I've never been able to confirm or refute that statement, though.

I found this article on sugar in Japan. I don't know if it has been posted elsewhere, but it was an interesting read.

And what about Pearl Sugar. Is it commonly used or easily available in Japan? I've never seen it, but I've never really looked, either.

[Hiroyuki]

I have a question about shirozatou 白砂糖 (also known as jouhakutou 上白糖).  It's the most popular type of sugar in Japan.  I googled to find that this type of sugar is used in Japan and some parts of Asia only.  The most popular type in the rest of the world is granulated sugar.  I tried to find an answer why it is so, but failed.

Any thoughts?

←

Have you ever started a topic, and then forgotten that you started it? Oops

I wonder if it has something to do with preferred processing--Japanese prefer less processing? A long time ago, I was told that jouhakutou is less processed than NA-style granulated sugar. I've never been able to confirm or refute that statement, though.

I found this article on sugar in Japan. I don't know if it has been posted elsewhere, but it was an interesting read.

And what about Pearl Sugar. Is it commonly used or easily available in Japan? I've never seen it, but I've never really looked, either.

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Shirozatou has invert sugar added to it to prevent crystallization, thereby having its unique 'wet' texture. I don't think it is less processed than granulated sugar.

As for Pearl Sugar, 1,312 yen for a 1-kg (2.2 lb.) bag? Oh, just forget it.

http://www.narizuka.co.jp/shopping/sugar.html

P.S. Thanks for the link. Detailed description of sugar in Japan!

[prasantrin]

Another sugar question...what is mizuame? Is it the same as glucose? Or corn syrup?

From the Tomizawa website

◆原材料　澱粉(コーンスターチ、甘藷澱粉)

If those are the ingredients, is it more like corn syrup? And can it be used in place of corn syrup or glucose for candy making?

And why is corn syrup so frickin' expensive in Japan? More than Y700 for a 473mL container of Karo corn syrup? I don't think so!

[Hiroyuki]

Another sugar question...what is mizuame?  Is it the same as glucose?  Or corn syrup?

From the Tomizawa website

◆原材料　澱粉(コーンスターチ、甘藷澱粉)

If those are the ingredients, is it more like corn syrup? And can it be used in place of corn syrup or glucose for candy making?

And why is corn syrup so frickin' expensive in Japan? More than Y700 for a 473mL container of Karo corn syrup? I don't think so!

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As I mentioned here, 90% of mizuame is made from corn starch in Japan.

If you want to know more about mizuame, click here.

[prasantrin]

Another sugar question...what is mizuame?  Is it the same as glucose?  Or corn syrup?

. . .

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As I mentioned here, 90% of mizuame is made from corn starch in Japan.

If you want to know more about mizuame, click here.

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I had already read the Wiki article, but it didn't tell me if it was the same as, or interchangeable with, corn syrup, and that's what I really want to know.

[sanrensho]

Hi Rona, you might find this previous thread useful, where it was suggested to thin out mizuame with water.

I've used mizuame in recipes that called for other invert sugars, but not in significant quantities.

[sanrensho]

Another baking related question...

What are the differences between the different Japanese sugars?  Regular Japanese sugar seems to have more moisture than US sugar, while what's marketed as "granulated sugar" seems to me more like US sugar, but has larger granules (I think).  Which would be a better substitute for US granulated sugar?  I usually just use the regular stuff, since granulated sugar is more expensive, but I'm wondering if granulated might give me a better product (for cakes, cookies, etc.).

FWIW, RLB recommends using fine granulated sugars for cakes. (I usually grind up my own in the food processor, although I haven't done a side-by-side text comparing fine vs. regular granulated sugar. Maybe some day.) So I would recommend the finer sugar, at least for cakes.

I definitely recall Japanese sugar as being moister and clumping.

[Hiroyuki]

Another sugar question...what is mizuame?  Is it the same as glucose?  Or corn syrup?

. . .

←

As I mentioned here, 90% of mizuame is made from corn starch in Japan.

If you want to know more about mizuame, click here.

←

I had already read the Wiki article, but it didn't tell me if it was the same as, or interchangeable with, corn syrup, and that's what I really want to know.

←

OK, from http://konny.fc2web.com/info/ingredient_e.html

Mizu-ame /Starch Syrup

This is Japanese starch syrup usually made from potato starch. You can substitute transparent and non-flavored corn syrup for Mizu-ame. If you use the corn syrup, please control the amount of water in recipe because Mizu-ame is stickier than corn syrup.

[helenjp]

Jouhakutou in baking: it's fine for most purposes, unless the flavor is an issue (very delicately sweetened items) or the moisture is an issue (possible lack of clarity in a gel, unwanted moisture in meringue).

In fact, I don't particularly recall intrusive tastes or cloudy jellies with jouhakutou, and meringue is about the only time I make sure I have granulated sugar on hand.

Since granulated sugar is a little coarser than I'm used to, if I want to whip sugar with egg I let the sugar/egg mixture sit for a little while, to encourage the sugar to dissolve a little before I start beating. I could also whizz the sugar briefly in a food processor/blender first, of course!

[prasantrin]

Jouhakutou in baking: it's fine for most purposes, unless the flavor is an issue (very delicately sweetened items) or the moisture is an issue (possible lack of clarity in a gel, unwanted moisture in meringue).

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Have you ever used jouhakutou for things that require it to be melted? When I lived in Tochigi, I used it all the time for baking, but I rarely made sweets other than cookies or cakes (pound cakes, carrot cakes). But for things like making pineapple upside down cake, I had a very hard time getting the sugar to melt when making the glaze/syrup part, and the couple of times I tried, I ended up having to dump the whole thing (including all the butter I used!). I'd like to use it for making caramels and such, too, if I can, since it's so much cheaper than granulated sugar. But I'm too afraid to take the risk...

[helenjp]

Gosh, can't give you much advice, sorry!

Pineapple upside down cake...in my house, that needs to be made with kuro-zatou (Japanese dark brown sugar)! My kids have suddenly remembered it and been nagging for it...

I'm pretty sure I've made fudge with jouhakutou, but it would be safer to use granulated sugar. It's been several years since I made candy, so I don't remember exactly.

[prasantrin]

Gosh, can't give you much advice, sorry!

Pineapple upside down cake...in my house, that needs to be made with kuro-zatou (Japanese dark brown sugar)! My kids have suddenly remembered it and been nagging for it...

I'm pretty sure I've made fudge with jouhakutou, but it would be safer to use granulated sugar. It's been several years since I made candy, so I don't remember exactly.

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You use kurozatou for pineapple upside down cake? I've never thought of that. I didn't actually use jouhakutou, but the light brown coloured jouhakutou. I thought it would be OK, since brown sugar in the US/Canada is quite moist as well, but it was a bust--big waste of sugar and butter! So after that, I used either granulated sugar (works, but different flavour), or brown sugar that I bring from Canada.

[prasantrin]

Is there a Japanese equivalent to caster sugar aka very fine granulated sugar? I know I can make my own my whizzing it around in my food processor, but I can never seem to get a consistent product (I end up with very fine, powdery sugar with some big crystals mixed it). It probably doesn't make much of a difference, but I'd like to compare with the real thing!

[torakris]

Is there a Japanese equivalent to caster sugar aka very fine granulated sugar?  I know I can make my own my whizzing it around in my food processor, but I can never seem to get a consistent product (I end up with very fine, powdery sugar with some big crystals mixed it).  It probably doesn't make much of a difference, but I'd like to compare with the real thing!

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Tomizawa carries super fine, here is a link- scroll down to the 6th one and click on it for more information.

I almost bought it once but at 2 to 3 times the price of regular granulated I decided it was cheaper to make it at home.

ETA it is called シュクレーヌ　 in Japanese, I am not going to tempt to romanize it because it sounds French to be and I tend to cruelly butcher French...

Edited November 27, 2008 by torakris (log)

[sanrensho]

ETA it is called シュクレーヌ　 in Japanese, I am not going to tempt to romanize it because it sounds French to be and I tend to cruelly butcher French...

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I'm pretty sure it is "sucrine."