Ladies Who Lunch

[Carrot Top]

In the eighties I worked at Doubles at the Sherry Netherland Hotel and The River Club in the River House on East 58th street. They were very exclusive private clubs that were filled daily, with large parties of Chanel clad, fully quaffed and perfectly pedigreed, ladies, in full tonsorial splendor, drinking champagne, martinis and stingers. Are these clubs still in existence?

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My feeling is that some of the clubs might have died out in the nineties -different cultural emphasis was going on with restaurants becoming *the* places to go more than ever before, don't you think? But surely some are still there. Even the hotels in New York went through an amazing renaissance in the nineties - new ones popping up everywhere. . .

[Carrot Top]

In the South, the ladies lunch on chicken salad and spiced tea in tearooms.  A tearoom is defined by the absence of a grill and deep fryer in the kitchen. There are also lunches at "the club" (country clubs) and other private or public clubs such as those at colleges and museums.  These ladies are likely to be older and more well off than the average.

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Are there still many tearooms around, Ruth? I don't think I've ever been to one. I have heard of one (specifically called a "tearoom") somewhere near DC but of course there may be tearooms that are tearooms but not named as such.

[Carrot Top]

I have had the opportunity to spend a lot of time at the Harvard Club here in NYC (my brother and grandfather both attended Harvard as undergrads, and are both members).

When my mom used to go to the club with her parents, women were not allowed in the main dining room.  Times are changing* - I think as the female members of the club begin to retire in larger numbers, you may see more and more of them spend their days at the Harvard Club (or the Princeton Club, Yale Club, and so on), and those lunch clubs will become co-ed, or maybe even dominated by women.

For those who are curious, the menu is very WASPy/northeastern - prime rib, surf and turf, popovers, lamb chops, and so on.  Good, solid and filling, but nothing too daring.

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I've been to the (Columbia) University Club several times, in the 1980's. It was not a ladies-lunching place, that's for sure. Female guests were not actively encouraged but they would tolerate us if they had to upon request of a member, for dinner.

Let's not forget the clear or jellied consomme options, now. Aside from that I agree with you on the menu.

I had a boyfriend who used to take me to the Colony Club sometimes for Saturday lunch with Mummy. (Heh.) One of the reasons I was curious about the current fashion detail for ladies who lunch is that the first time we were to go there, I didn't have any idea where we were going. I didn't dress. . .uh. . . right. (So what else is new.) It was a terribly difficult decision to make - would he take me to lunch with Mum and Sis decked out in my leather skirt and angora sweater? Or would we have to jump in a cab and get back to Brooklyn Heights, have me change clothes, then hop back in the cab to the club? A dreadfully stressful decision, as you might imagine.

No cabs to be found on Park Avenue.

We went to lunch. (Not wanting to cancel on Mum.)

Mum was rather taken aback by me.

I tried to make myself into an eccentric conversation piece that could then be tolerable. It worked okay.

But as for the food, I would have preferred to eat, almost anywhere else.

Papaya King, anyone?

[Carrot Top]

I am honestly startled at how vital this institution of "ladies who lunch" still seems to be! What wonderful stories, and amazing memories. The shape has changed and I guess still will continue to - but what fun!

Sounds like a good habit to take up.

[therese]

Are there still many tearooms around, Ruth? I don't think I've ever been to one. I have heard of one (specifically called a "tearoom") somewhere near DC but of course there may be tearooms that are tearooms but not named as such.

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My mom describes tea rooms in the south as basically being lunch restaurants for women, run by women. She associates them with the Depression, and points out that they were a way for women to supplement the household income without it being too very obvious that they were doing so, particularly to men.

There is a restaurant here in Atlanta called Mary Mac's Tea Room, but it's not got the sort of menu one usually associates with a tea room. It serves dinner, and its serves both genders. It was started by a woman, Mary MacKenzie, and later owned by another woman, Margaret Lupo, who ran it until recently.

For the real tea room experience, you can go to the Swan Coach House. The menu has been updated a bit (particularly with sandwiches apart from traditional tea sandwiches), but otherwise features classics like "Swan’s Favorite: Chicken salad served in delicate timbales with a creamy frozen fruit salad and cheese straws". For dessert you really should try "French Silk Swan: A meringue base filled with chocolate mousse topped with chantilly cream and almonds in the shape of a swan."

Clientele almost entirely female, dining room almost entirely upholstered in chintz.

[Pontormo]

Hi, Karen!

Your reference to tea rooms in the D.C. prompted me to log in.

There are a number of places named "Teaism" (cute, huh ?) in town that are actually a very nice alternative to the Starbucks scene.

They're not for Ladies Who Lunch, though I once lunched in one close to museums on the Mall with a Wellsley alum, briefly in town, who was wearing a pink cotton top and carrying a pink bag containing a pink wallet, VERY California casual chic vs. prissy or dear. Does that count?

Teaism is for the green tea crowd, or we who wear Birkenstocks and dangling earrings and go to farmer's markets. They sell pretty decent food, though you have to be selective. We both had ginger limeade and in bento, lightly seared tuna on a mound of rice with roasted sweet potato and probably a sesame-cucumber salad. The emphasis is on Asian or Asian-like things.

[Carrot Top]

What is the cost of being a green-tea drinking, Birkenstock-wearing, dangling earring, Farmers Market shopping type vs. a Starbucks type, Pontormo?

I hope that the undoubtedly hand-glazed painted heavy pottery mugs of tea are not approaching the four dollar "Grrrrrrrande" cappucino at Starbucks. Of course we must do our part to support small business owners, but something inside me howls (and not for mercy) each time I decide to enter the Cave of Fiends that is called Starbucks with my little plastic card that the numbers of dollar signs get so easily entered upon and drawn away from my hoard of gold that is stored in the US Treasury somewhere somehow.

Pink is always a bit dubious, I think. It takes a daring woman to wear it.

Asian food with anything sesame is always good. Right and proper for the modern teahouse. Savvy.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

However, I did not keep a good eye on how empty the plates were when taken away.  The food there is so good (and kind of overpriced) that I can't imagine not eating it when it's in front of you. 

Me too -- and that's why if you watched, those plates would be returned with one bite taken out of them. God only knows how many of those bites are spat into napkins. Try this: follow one of these tiny women who declare that they "just love to eat, eat, eat!" to the restroom after the dishes are cleared, they never, EVER leave before you. They don't make a noise in there. I have no doubt purging is going on.

When db Bistro Moderne first did it's burger, a friend from out of town went with me for a rare lunch out. Of course we had the burger, and when we went to the ladies' room after, we were near a group of women who were at db for the burger experience. None of them ate the bun, just a bite of the burger and a bite of the frites. When my friend and I spoke of how fantastic those things were and how we were licking the plates clean, we were assumed to be purgers just like them. Ewwww.

[Chris Amirault]

There are a number of places named "Teaism" (cute, huh ?) in town that are actually a very nice alternative to the Starbucks scene.

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That's interesting. Sounds very like this place called Tealuxe, which is smack in the middle of Thayer Street, the main business stretch running through Brown University's campus.

[SuzySushi]

However, I did not keep a good eye on how empty the plates were when taken away.  The food there is so good (and kind of overpriced) that I can't imagine not eating it when it's in front of you. 

Me too -- and that's why if you watched, those plates would be returned with one bite taken out of them. God only knows how many of those bites are spat into napkins. Try this: follow one of these tiny women who declare that they "just love to eat, eat, eat!" to the restroom after the dishes are cleared, they never, EVER leave before you. They don't make a noise in there. I have no doubt purging is going on.

When db Bistro Moderne first did it's burger, a friend from out of town went with me for a rare lunch out. Of course we had the burger, and when we went to the ladies' room after, we were near a group of women who were at db for the burger experience. None of them ate the bun, just a bite of the burger and a bite of the frites. When my friend and I spoke of how fantastic those things were and how we were licking the plates clean, we were assumed to be purgers just like them. Ewwww.

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I forget now which of the original LWL made famous the quotation "You can never be too rich or too thin." That was decades before anorexia and bulimia were in the vernacular.

[Pontormo]

[Carrot Top,Nov 19 2005, 02:17 PM]

What is the cost of being a green-tea drinking, Birkenstock-wearing, dangling earring, Farmers Market shopping type vs. a Starbucks type, Pontormo?

Touche'. You got me there. But Starbucks, alas, is just so damn ubiquitous that its demographics are quite diverse, if all decidedly middle class and beyond. They wear sweatshirts that say "FBI", running shoes, Armani, and T.J. Maxx. Their kids raise eyebrows when they enter, remember? Teaism doesn't attract much of the tourist or MacDonald's crowd. If there are children (?? I don't remember any, but I am not a regular at any of these places), they know how to sit motionless, palms up on their laps, fingers in proper configurations, striving for satori.

I hope that the undoubtedly hand-glazed painted heavy pottery mugs of tea are not approaching the four dollar "Grrrrrrrande" cappucino at Starbucks.

The cups are all very wabi-sabi. Funky-tasteful.

The price of tea? Don't recall. Busboy? Diva? There'll probably be someone else from these parts who knows. Not as much as a double mocha cap half non-fat with sprinkles, certainly.

Pink is always a bit dubious, I think. It takes a daring woman to wear it.

Indeed. Thanks for reserving judgment. This someday-to-be distinguished scholar is very cool, smart, kind, gorgeous, not full of herself, and knows how to use an outhouse and an axe. Learned how to cook and speak Chinese from the natives.

[ruthcooks]

Pink is always a bit dubious, I think. It takes a daring woman to wear it.

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I too have a pink purse and a pink wallet.

I'm not a bit daring, but pink is both my best color to wear and my favorite color.

Karen, the customers decide if your restaurant is a tea room by looking at your menu. There were still quite a few in Nashville when I left four years ago, although none had the words "Tea Room" included in their names. More men are now patronizing these restaurants since soup and salad lunches became popular.

[Megan Blocker]

I forget now which of the original LWL made famous the quotation "You can never be too rich or too thin." That was decades before anorexia and bulimia were in the vernacular.

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Nan Kempner.

WHY do I know these things?

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Usually attributed to the Duchess of Windsor.

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Hmmmm...I'm almost positive I saw this attributed to Nan Kempner in one of her obits recently, which is why it stuck with me. Ah, well.

ETA: Aha! I see! It seems an article about Nan was in the same issue of Vanity Fair as an article about the Duke and Duchess (not shocking, I suppose). My brain must have scrambled them like eggs.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Megan Blocker (log)

[Zucchini Mama]

I'm loving this thread and I've been humming "Miss Otis Regrets" for the past three days! So I'm being taken out for lunch by a curator. We're heading to Griffins in the Hotel Vancouver. I'm going to go in my LWL drag. I've got to pluck my eyebrows! (I think it's been months since I did that). I think I may do the fitted tweed jacket but jeans instead of the tweed skirt. But for my feet? I just don't have the Choos for it. What's a lady to do? I've got to get some height into this hair of mine. Oh, it's so much fun.

"She's unable to lunch today, Madame..." The song is getting to me, but don't worry, I won't do anything drastic. Who was it that said, "One cannot aim well or shoot well unless one has dined well..."?

Also, couple of questions: References to LWL in litereature?

Your ideal LWL lunch. Where? Who's around the table? What's on the menu? What are you wearing?

Zuke

[Carrot Top]

I'm loving this thread and I've been humming "Miss Otis Regrets" for the past three days! So I'm being taken out for lunch by a curator. We're heading to Griffins in the Hotel Vancouver. I'm going to go in my LWL drag. I've got to pluck my eyebrows! (I think it's been months since I did that). I think I may do the fitted tweed jacket but jeans instead of the tweed skirt. But for my feet? I just don't have the Choos for it. What's a lady to do? I've got to get some height into this hair of mine. Oh, it's so much fun.

"She's unable to lunch today, Madame..." The song is getting to me, but don't worry, I won't do anything drastic. Who was it that said, "One cannot aim well or shoot well unless one has dined well..."?

Also, couple of questions: References to LWL in litereature?

Your ideal LWL lunch. Where? Who's around the table? What's on the menu? What are you wearing?

Zuke

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I hope your lunch went as swimmingly as expected, Zuke. No snags in the stockings or hair that refused to "big". It sounded quite exciting!

The ideal LWL lunch. . .that's a tough one. I tried to decide this but keep having this thing with the "time". I can imagine dinners quite well of this sort, having done it often in the past. But move the thing to the middle of the day and something wierd happens. My mind just sort of slams shut and won't accept the idea!

Maybe I need to go to some sort of transitional training course to move me from the category of "Woman Who Dines" to "Lady Who Lunches". It seems quite impossible!

But I'll keep working on it. . .

[Zucchini Mama]

Hey ladies,

I had a wonderful lunch, and let me tell you it was mostly pleasure, but we did do some business! Griffins is an odd place because it's a bistro with lovely bones, but the decor definitely needs to be updated from the last renovation. It would be lovely if someone replaced the Griffins on the multicolored carpet with something understated and warm. There are small banquettes, deuces by the windows, and tables for four right in the middle of the fish bowl, which is where we sat because we hadn't made resos.

Okay, so my LWL bevvie of choice is a proper unsweetened iced tea. This is one place in Vancouver that does it right. See, in Canada we mostly have that kakky sugary premade crap. Okay, so I was presented with two tall glasses filled with ice, and one had a long spoon and a straw in it. A plate with slices of lemon. A pitcher of simple syrup. A pot of hot Orange Pekoe tea. I love it. The ritual of pouring, stirring, all the while writing last minute prep notes in my journal, looking very businesslike. (You see I've been a stay at home mom for five years, so this more than a bit thrilling for me.) The only time I've had a better iced tea service was at a place called Carmel's where they rimmed the glasses with sugar.

The curator is lovely, and had some great stories to tell. Apparently this hotel is haunted by the "Lady in Red". There is even a cocktail named after her. There have been so many "paranormal" experiences in one elevator that they shut it right down.

Cut to the chow. I had the burger. Fifteen bucks for a burger with cheddar and bacon, with fries and onion rings (allium breath be damned). The fries and rings were meh, but I loved that burger. It was so tasty and juicy and decadent. I left the fried stuff and ate up the burger. The thing is, when you only eat about three burgers a year, then you really can enjoy them for what they are. Juice drips down onto seed pearls.

We laughed, gossiped and discussed the meaning of blogs. I gave her a little gift of chocolate from Sen5es, and she rushed off to catch a plane. I am filled with gratitude for such a lovely meal.

I rushed back to pick up my son from a playdate with his friend and he gobbled down a brioche from Sen5es. "This is pretty good mom," he says. Yep, pretty damned good.

Zuke

I am still thinking about the whole ideal LWL scenario. It's fun to daydream about these things.

[MarketStEl]

Maybe I need to go to some sort of transitional training course to move me from the category of "Woman Who Dines" to "Lady Who Lunches". It seems quite impossible!

But I'll keep working on it. . .

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Let's start you off easy with those little cucumber or watercress sandwiches served on crustless thin rounds of white bread.

I believe these are often called "tea sandwiches."

Get the hang of those, and you'll be Lunchin' in no time!

[Carrot Top]

Zuke, your lunch sounded (ah. . .now here's a chance to use this word!) divine. The iced tea ritual in particular.

There *is* something highly ritualistic about the ladies lunch. Interesting.

Sandy, tea sandwiches- perfect! I love cucumber sandwiches and could definitely make a meal of them! That is an excellent temptation.

I've decided that my lunch *must* start with cucumber sandwiches.

And I'd like a Bloody Mary, please. A good one, a strong one, a big one. With a celery stick perching at a merry angle from the top. That is a good old-fashioned sort of drink.

Maybe some iced tea later. . .maybe some sort of chicken thingie in puff pastry for lunch. A tad of salad, a mere tad, on the side.

The most important thing, though, is that there must be a dessert cart.

They must roll it over to me for service.

On the cart will be at least twelve choices of desserts. Some Viennese pastries, some vaguely French or Italian pastries, one towering American cake, and at least one total show-stopper of a novel sort. Naturally, they will also offer to make zabaione or crepes tableside.

Small scaldingly hot double or triple espresso.

This would have to be in San Francisco. I don't know why.

Before going to San Francisco, though, I would have to stop in New York. An afternoon the day before would be required for shopping for the right outfit. Bergdorf's for the clothes. . (sale rack, of course darling. . .where I will be *saving* money!!!) and all, and I mean all, accesories. A good lunch deserves getting dressed up for, doesn't it? Fekkai is still there, isn't he? He can do my hair. My hair is short, very short, for I can not do *big* hair. It would have killed me during my lifetime if I'd tried - I surely would have needed to be hospitalized with the stress of it all. But a quick little two-hundred fifty dollar tousle of my locks by Freddie and hey babe, I'd be ready! (Heh. Poetry.)

Who would I be lunching with?

I've decided to choose a bunch of women just. . .from anywhere. "Random women" as my thirteen year old daughter says. ("This random girl came up to me and said blah blah blah today, Mom" she says. Apparently people are now defined as "random" if you don't know them. . ). Random women. That would be fun. Because you'd have no expectations as to what they would say.

Sigh.

That's my ladies lunch, Zuke.

[Zucchini Mama]

The most important thing, though, is that there must be a dessert cart.

They must roll it over to me for service.

On the cart will be at least twelve choices of desserts. Some Viennese pastries, some vaguely French or Italian pastries, one towering American cake, and at least one total show-stopper of a novel sort. Naturally, they will also offer to make zabaione or crepes tableside.

I've decided to choose a bunch of women just. . .from anywhere. "Random women" as my thirteen year old daughter says. ("This random girl came up to me and said blah blah blah today, Mom" she says. Apparently people are now defined as "random" if you don't know them. . ). Random women. That would be fun. Because you'd have no expectations as to what they would say.

Sigh.

That's my ladies lunch, Zuke.

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I hope I end up as one of those random ladies some day!

Okay, here's today's ideal LWL. The location: Charleston, South Carolina, as is portrayed in Laura Child's tea Shop mysteries. I've never been. I'm just really curious about rubbing shoulders with the LWL there. The women would be some friends I haven't seen for five years-women I worked with in a theatre company in England. I'd love to catch up on what we've been doing with our lives since then. Oh, and did I mention we all go to the spa first, and really get pampered, clipped and coifed? Then lunch. I don't know Charleston, but maybe someone can help me out here as to the venue and menu. I think a ladylike cocktail, an "amuse mah bouche", followed by lobster risotto and salad, and I like the idea of the dessert trolley, so I'll have one of those too! Then we go shopping. Oh, I almost forgot the clothes. I think it would be fun to dress kind of outrageously bohemian, as if we'd raided a costume museum and mixed it with our contemporary clothes. Think big hats, velvet scarves and art deco bakelite bracelets. So like I said, then we go shopping. Then we go for afternoon tea. More shopping. Dinner at "?" Then we go see a play. Oh, what a perfect day.

Although, it would be fun to do an LWL with eGullet women from all over the world. I'll just keep buying those lottery tickets and maybe some day I can fly you all to Vienna for sachertorte!

Zuke

[Megan Blocker]

What a great question, Zuke! In the interest of prepping for next week's eG Spotlight, I'm in the midst of re-reading Comfort Me With Apples, Tender at the Bone and Garlic and Sapphires, and I'm thinking that my current ideal lunch group would be: Ruth Reichl, Marion Cunningham, Cecilia Chiang and M.F.K. Fisher. Assuming, of course, that we can include, fantasy-style, those who have passed on. I'm not sure how I would get a word in edgewise, but that would be A-OK with me.

Not sure yet on the locale, but I think it will have to involve Chinatown or Little Korea...

Edited November 23, 2005 by Megan Blocker (log)

[highchef]

Marion Cunningham has a wonderful ginger muffin recipe in the WS breads book. You just throw the ginger in the cusinart unpeeled and go for it......I was hesitant, tried it and it's super. I'd really like to go to that lunch.

[Megan Blocker]

Add another to the list of new department store restaurants...David Burke is opening one in Bloomingdale's here in New York.

Link to an article on New York magazine's site, NYMetro.com.

This looks kinda cool, and may end up being a bright light in Midtown's icky mid-price-level lunch scene. I think I may take a jaunt up that way from my office (in the low 50's) sometime next week...

Edited December 6, 2005 by Megan Blocker (log)

[snekse]

At the risk of getting flamed...

The Rotunda at Neiman Marcus - San Francisco

Sorry, I saw the term "Ladies who lunch" and I had to post in this thread.

[Megan Blocker]

At the risk of getting flamed...

The Rotunda at Neiman Marcus - San Francisco

Sorry, I saw the term "Ladies who lunch" and I had to post in this thread.

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Flamed? Hardly!!!

Actually, reading this, it epitomizes to me the kind of spot traditional for a ladies' lunch. OK food (with low-cal chicken broth one of the better things on the menu), proximity to department-store shopping (in this case, to Needless Markups), and full of puppy purses.

Snekse, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

[Megan Blocker]

Just saw this article on NYTimes.com...looks like there's a group of ladies calling themselves the Dames of Beef (les Dames du Boeuf) who make the rounds of some of the city's most established establishments.