Ladies Who Lunch

[Carrot Top]

And other than the salad salad salad and broiled fish and bottled water lunch, there seems to be a theme of some comfort foods of sorts on the menus.

Elegant comfort foods of course - let's rule out meatloaf and mashed potatoes I think but perhaps a bit of Shrafft's nonetheless in style. Small dishes with some sense of style?

I wonder if ice cream in all its ways is consumed at the same rate as it used to be.

[Zucchini Mama]

Okay, I have a confession to make. I've wanted to be a Lady Who Lunches since I was about twelve years old, living on the sun baked prairie 150 miles from the nearest city. I've entertained this fantasy in various ways ever since. Furthermore, I have a been a voyeur studying LWL's wherever I travel.

In Vancouver I think of Seasons in the Park (Bill Clinton has dined there), Trafalger's (lots of university profs or wives profs), and Provence on W10 (also close to the university of B.C.). I was invited to my MOL's birthday at Seasons when I was very pregnant and nauseaus. It was a shame I couldn't enjoy my meal as I listened to these women talk about their lives, their children, grandchildren, and even their fights with cancer. I remember thinking: "I have arrived. I am an LWL." Unfortunately I've never been asked back since! At Trafalger's I must admit I eavesdrop on conversations about plastic surgery and trips to the Panama canal.

I hope it is not a dying tradition to enjoy lunching with girlfriends as a theatrical ritual: getting dressed up and spilling your guts while filling your gullets. I am disturbed by the term men use to describe LWL in Vancouver as either the young "Yummy Mommies" or the middle aged "Cougars". Obviously they are threatened by the female power lunch. Which brings me to another couple of points: some women are lunching for business reasons. Some ladies are lunching alone as a treat they give themselves. Whatever the case, I know women who reclaim these derogatory terms, and use the phrases themselves, tongue firmly in cheek as they swirl their Sauvignon Blanc and test for mouthfeel and finish.

In Germany I have observed women in furs, taking a break from shopping for kaffe mit schlagobers and a nice piece of torte. In England I had a memorable lunch in Bath in a tiny cafe above a cheese shop where we agreed to sit at the same table since the place was packed. We had a lovely conversation and I invited her to our performance at a theatre nearby. I hope she came to the show. Maybe one day I will go back and sit with her again. I think we had tarte tatin for dessert.

What I think of as typical LWL dishes: warm seafood salad, Sauv Blanc, and creme brulée; quiche and salad (or more recently a savory rustic tart and salad); or rissotto cakes and salad. Prix Fixe menus. Comforting desserts. A cup of tea. We leave feeling connected, grounded, warmed, and smiling with secrets. Long live the Ladies Who Lunch!

Zuke

Edited November 17, 2005 by Zucchini Mama (log)

[Marlene]

There is of course, the Red Hat Society. while they certainly do more than eat, these ladies have Lunching down pat. They can often be seen at the King Edward Hotel here in Toronto, for example. Particularly for high tea.

[rooftop1000]

I spent 15 yrs serving the LWLs now I am temping in an office. I cant wait till I get a slow day and can do lunch. I may actually manage a lunch with my daughter next week during work...regular people get a lunch HOUR not 2 bites of a sandwich in the store room

tracey

[Pontormo]

Interesting about that definition of the style of the younger set, Megan. I admit I am curious about the shoes. Do tell. Does the height of the heel define a woman?

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Of course! The higher the heel, the more likely she is to have both a driver and a podiatrist on call.

I wear flats.

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First, might I gush? I just think EVERYTHING, EVERYONE has to say is so very, very

MARVELOUS!!!!

Sigh.

I've just finished being a DWD (Diva who Dines), only not quite a diva since I did the cooking and that meant at 6:45 throwing everything on every surface in my place into a box and hurling that into my bedroom and shutting the door, seconds before I heard a knock.

I hope this isn't TOO off-topic, but I gotta mention a seminar that was cross-listed with Women's Studies. All women except one brave, good-natured male soul. All who registered were asked to bring one item that they owned for show and tell on the first day of class, something that they thought was gender-specific and explain why.

Emma [not real name] was, so I thought, this sweet, quiet, very traditional, unshowy young woman. What did she bring? After kind of apologizing as she unzipped her backpack, saying that they, like, were you know, really on sale, she pulled out...

...a pair of Jimmy Choo shoes!!!!!

Judging by the way she described how they made her feel when she wore them, I suspect there might be a small (Post)Modern Lady Who Lunches hidden within what proved to be a brave, smart, opiniated, hard-working, ambitious self, one that will be let out only on an occasional basis which doesn't quite count.

I gotta say, the rest of this is so much better than washing dishes!

Speaking of high heeled shoes (and by the way, POINTY matters, too. Poor, poor squished toes!), thank you Fabulous for a sense of what replaces the cucumber and watercress sandwiches or Chicken Kiev at The Russian Tea Room. I had thought it would be chicken Caesar salad, but I guess that's too vulgar.

And Jennahan, I have to say one of the reasons you are only a part-time LWL is absolutely adorable! Your Fridays do sound amazing.

Finally, I LOVE the idea of the museum ladies. We have our fair share in D.C.

But because we like to compare ourselves to the OTHER national capital, the Style section of today's Washington Post did a story on power lunches at Michael's in Manhattan.

[*Deborah*]

I find that Zucchini Mama and I have a closet LWL urge in common.

When I was a (poor) student, last year of McGill, having (as now) no idea what I wanted to do with my life, I would buy early issues of Details Magazine. This was in its first incarnation (it is now, I believe, in its third). It was definitely about Style, in the New York City manner. It was not, then, gender-specific, but fabulous-specific. It had ads for milliners in Chelsea, and the sorts of handbags without which one could not be au courant. I believe it was the age of Maud Frizon, B.M. (Before Manolo). It had ads for men's haberdashers, Polo Ralph Lauren, Stephen Smith, Colours by Alexander Julian. It had an ad for a Karl Lagerfeld woman's suit, grey wool crepe, nipped and pencilled and stitched, the sketched mannequin for which was be-hatted, be-handbagged, and be-slingbacked, and the skirt was (oddly, for that time) long enough that one could reasonably infer the presence of a silk Lanvin garter belt and stockings in lieu of pedestrian pantyhose.

I dubbed this suit the Lady Who Lunches suit, and imagined my glamourous life visiting NYC, shopping on Fifth Avenue, wearing this perfect suit, lunching at Le Cirque or The Four Seasons or Tavern on the Green, or maybe somewhere a little more Downtown, with all the glamourous friends the wearer of such a suit would surely have.

Lunch would entail something like quiche and a green salad (no garlic, darling, I have a date later!) or something like the chicken en papillotte I would treat myself to once a month at La Tulipe Noir. My dark red Christian Dior lipstick would leave glamourous marks on my wine glass and espresso cup. (This was the 80s, remember ) Later, I would get my hair done by one of those fabulous stylists who only needed one name, go to my Park Lane hotel room, remove my perfect LWL suit, and have a disco nap in preparation for the evening's festivities...which would be recounted to the glamourous friends the next day, in another perfect suit, at another glamourous lunch.

As it is, Mooshmouse and I from time to time will don our cutest shoes and something pink and sally forth for High Tea, which is our version of a Ladies' Lunch.

[Carrot Top]

I am almost certain that the restaurant in NY that was referred to at the beginning of  this topic was Mortimer's. It was owned by Glenn Bernbaum. Here's a link to an article about the place, the owner and the leisure-class clientele.

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/food/industry/features/3157/

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Thanks for that fun link, Oceangroveguy!

I meant to thank you yesterday, but got carried away with all the stories and had to spend all night checking my wardrobe to see if indeed, I "had anything to wear" or not. For any purpose.

I think the article that was in my mind was more recent, but you've provided us with yet another example of the classic piece of journalism that tells of an end of a restaurant and hints at the end of a fabulous era because of it.

[Carrot Top]

Neither my mother nor I was ever a lady who lunched, but it seems that one of the blows to that demographic -- at least here in DC -- has been the demise of the department store restaurant.  The big old department stores -- the 7-story downtown Woodward & Lothrop and the tonier Garfinkles -- has what passed for decent restaurants back in the day. Megan and her mom wouldn't have even have had to leave the store.  DC being less rich and more button-downed than New York, I wonder if the ladies would have gone to La Grenouille even if an equivalent had been available.

I notice that certain restaurants in upscale neighborhoods, Black Salt, for example, seem to be extra hard to reserve at lunch, though they are far from the business crowd.  Perhaps that's where the ladies are today.

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One group that I've noticed as having some sort of social significance in DC are the Congressman's Wives. Are they generally too busy in their days divided between doing good acts and studying Macchiavelli to "lunch" I wonder? Or is there some special place they have their own indulgements as ladies who lunch?

Edit note: I've been reminded by a friend that not all members of Congress are men and not all spouses of Congress members function in the traditional sense of supportive "seconds" to the major, but instead have their own independent careers. This is of course, completely true.

My use of the term "Congressmen's Wives" was meant in a way that would be inclusive of all those who would fit the general concept of that term as it has been traditionally understood in times throughout history - it could even include men if it were a man in the role.

If the term offended anyone, my apologies.

To me, though, the group that I speak of does seem to exist and to be of a definite shape. What it should be called I can not imagine - new terms for old things that will redefine our society is a mindbendingly awesome task.

Edited November 17, 2005 by Carrot Top (log)

[Carrot Top]

I'm also curious to know whether the concept of "ladies who lunch" exists in other cultures - so far our answers are Western-culture based. Does this concept exist in some form in Eastern cultures?

[Megan Blocker]

Well, speak of the devil! Here's an article from today's New York Times about department store restaurants.

Click!

And, here's a bit of a preview:

Each place offers a tiny sliver of consumer society. Cafe SFA gets jammed on Wednesdays, the line snaking past the Vera Wang Lavender Label in evening wear, because it's matinee day. The crowd, almost uniformly women who have come in from the suburbs to shop in the morning, watches the chef make a chopped salad and sees a show. Occasionally ladies who like to be seen gossiping at lunch - at Michael's or Swifty's, restaurants that offer patrons the chance to perform in front of a crowd, much like the opera did in the 19th century - will dine at Cafe SFA when they are in discretion mode, hoping not to be seen. The nastier the socialite, the more worried you should be when you spot her here.

Edited November 17, 2005 by Megan Blocker (log)

[Carrot Top]

How does that happen when all of a sudden things start showing up in lots of places at the same time about the same subject? That's awesome. Leads me to believe in telepathy or something.

Or else we are all just always talking about everything and only notice what we're talking about when we want to?

Thanks for the link, Megan.

Now I am off to lunch. Not as a lady today, but as a Mom. I'll raise a glass of school-lunch cafeteria chocolate milk to y'all!

[Busboy]

Neither my mother nor I was ever a lady who lunched, but it seems that one of the blows to that demographic -- at least here in DC -- has been the demise of the department store restaurant.  The big old department stores -- the 7-story downtown Woodward & Lothrop and the tonier Garfinkles -- has what passed for decent restaurants back in the day. Megan and her mom wouldn't have even have had to leave the store.  DC being less rich and more button-downed than New York, I wonder if the ladies would have gone to La Grenouille even if an equivalent had been available.

I notice that certain restaurants in upscale neighborhoods, Black Salt, for example, seem to be extra hard to reserve at lunch, though they are far from the business crowd.  Perhaps that's where the ladies are today.

←

One group that I've noticed as having some sort of social significance in DC are the Congressman's Wives. Are they generally too busy in their days divided between doing good acts and studying Macchiavelli to "lunch" I wonder? Or is there some special place they have their own indulgements as ladies who lunch?

Edit note: I've been reminded by a friend that not all members of Congress are men and not all spouses of Congress members function in the traditional sense of supportive "seconds" to the major, but instead have their own independent careers. This is of course, completely true.

My use of the term "Congressmen's Wives" was meant in a way that would be inclusive of all those who would fit the general concept of that term as it has been traditionally understood in times throughout history - it could even include men if it were a man in the role.

If the term offended anyone, my apologies.

To me, though, the group that I speak of does seem to exist and to be of a definite shape. What it should be called I can not imagine - new terms for old things that will redefine our society is a mindbendingly awesome task.

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Although Washington is a place that pushes "wives of" into at least the trappings of traditional roles (note that Ms. Rodham became Mrs. Clinton), my experience is that, much of the time, the permanent campaign keeps them almost as busy as their husbands. Think of them as "Ladies who Luncheon" and look for them at the Hilton, addressing a lunch meeting of the Greater Minneapolis Board of Trade or the "YWCA 5th Annual Women Achiever Awards Luncheon." Though they are found at many a non-gender specific event, they do carry a disproportionate share of the women's group burden.

Also note that, today, many stay back in the home state or district, since their husbands are home every weekend to campaign, and many more, of course, have jobs, meaning that it's harder to reach lunching critical mass.

I think, back when the Congressional Session was shorter (when Washington had a "Season"), transportation back home took longer, and Congress was a Boys Club, you had a bigger Congressional LWL contingent. LWL now are more the Permanent Washington Upper Class -- think Sally Quinn, not Mrs. Dennis Hastert.

Washington is so enmeshed in tradition, good and bad, that we still haven't figured out what to do with Congressional Husbands, who do not yet have either a group personality or stereotype to fall back on.

[Pontormo]

Busboy, I KNEW you'd pipe up with the reference to congressmen's wives!

And Megan, here's the link to the article on Michael's, which I guess is shared by Ladies Who Lunch and Women Who Power Lunch: Table d'Hot

[Megan Blocker]

How does that happen when all of a sudden things start showing up in lots of places at the same time about the same subject? That's awesome. Leads me to believe in telepathy or something.

Or else we are all just always talking about everything and only notice what we're talking about when we want to?

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Synchronicity, baby!

I was so psyched to see that article this morning...I felt so ahead of the trend. Because, you know, the Grey Lady is known for her trendiness.

Yes, Michael's! I always think of Michael's as power lunch central for the media crowd...I had no idea it was so popular with our dear ladies who lunch!

[Rehovot]

I am a lady (when I'm not cursing at bugs). And I eat lunch.

Therefore, I am a Lady Who Lunches. Party of one.

Yes, bring me the wine menu!

Occasionally, when I was little, my mother would take me to lunch at Neiman Marcus, in Fashion Island, where I learned how difficult it was, socially, to butter a popover. These lunches, more frequent before my brother came along, taught me manners and the value of conversation with one's mom.

The most recent meeting of LWL in my family was last summer, when my two aunts took me to lunch at a golf course in Wailea. A breezy lanai, a view of the ocean, tropical cocktails, and conversation with women I admire and can learn volumes from--not bad for an afternoon.

Did I mention we had salads?

Now that I eat leftovers for lunch in between stints at the computer, I spend a lot of time reminiscing about what I learned from the women I lunched with.

[cathrynapple]

whoever's missing these women, please come and PICK THEM UP from the restautant (uh, DELI) where i work, because we're about to start charging them rent if something doesn't change.

let's remember that i live in Lafayette, IN. there is no high society here. unfortunately, many women (most of whom have made a career out of having parties catered by us) consider themselves to part of teh "ladies who lunch" group. they come in, get overpriced spinach salads, and stay for appropximately six or seven hours.

the red hats visit us frequently. some groups are more enjoyable than others.

we have no idea why they've chosen us. to be honest, there's a much nicer place a few blocks away. better food, same prices, better atmosphere, and consistent music. out place is a groumet deli witha small grocery section run by us, a group of rowdy twenty somethings. we choose the music and make roast beef sandwiches for husband's dragged in and ladle soup for the very elderly.

maybe it has something to do with the grossly seasonal decor? (currently, there are fake autumn leaves pressed between the plexiglass (yes, plexiglass) and tablecloths. there is ornage tinsle hanging from the ceiling. they love this. the more of it the better.

the ladies stay utnil four or four thirty (we stop serving at two pm.)

they ask for any and all music to be turned off while we're mopping and sweeping. they ask us to microwave the half cup of coffee they've been nursing for an hour over and over again. (heaven forbid we bring a fresh cup! they aren't finished with the first!)

so yes, we have our own version of this group in lafayette. and, like a said, it's about time for them to go home.

[hannnah]

There's an organized Senate Spouses group (easier to keep track of since there are substantially fewer Senators than Representatives). Details here. They do one official "luncheon" per year for the First Lady, plus various less formal ones.

[Carrot Top]

I've personally been in about six lunches with groups of people (in this case they were women) who were married to members of Congress. There was no focus or intent to exclude men from this group but there were no men there.

The lunches were for the purpose of finalizing menu planning for several large functions that involved showcasing New York State foods. I was there as consultant. It was a business/political thing that I was required to do because of where I worked, and I was also required to develop the final menu which would be presented to the Executive Chef at the hotel where the function (which would be for about 1200 people) would be held.

The group was quite animated and extremely knowledgeable about the districts that they were there to represent. So much so that the cant of identity politics overtook the discussion at large which was supposed to be about finding a menu and it was nigh impossible to finally define one for the intensity with which each district's identity was fought over as the more important.

This group of people seemed quite vitally involved in what they were doing. Seemed to me that there would be somewhere they might lunch in DC together at times. But maybe not.

[highchef]

I have to add, if the cat will allow, that I' ve had many a lunch where some of the husbands would come in and we'd get an 'My, I'd love to be a lady who lunched"......soon I realized that we were seeing the same guys, over and over..... hello ladies, here's the laddies...

[chow guy]

In the eighties I worked at Doubles at the Sherry Netherland Hotel and The River Club in the River House on East 58th street. They were very exclusive private clubs that were filled daily, with large parties of Chanel clad, fully quaffed and perfectly pedigreed, ladies, in full tonsorial splendor, drinking champagne, martinis and stingers. Are these clubs still in existence?

I loved the documetary about the recording of the "Company" sound track. It was heartbreaking watching Ms. Strich do "Ladies Who Lunch" for so many takes but... the final result was no less than brilliant.

[Pontormo]

My stepfamily in Connecticut is very good friends with a family whose Pater has spent a good portion of a lucrative career working as a chef at private clubs, including those associated with the Ivy League, I think.

Now, of course, the Ivy League is no longer gender-exclusive. Some--most?--but not all of the Sister Schools are no longer places for ladies, Bourdain being one of their well-known alumnI.

I wonder if there is a reader here who has visited clubs affiliated with elite schools that still preserve the character of the Old Boy's/Girl's Club, or worked in their kitchens during the lunch shift.

If so, do you recall anything about the single-sex character of lunchers that reeked not only of class, but of gender?

Were there any significant shifts when these worlds went co-ed?

Come to think of it, I went to a large public university for grad school that had different buildings for its male and female student bodies to congregate. After the radical days of the late sixties, when the sexes were finally allowed to mingle architecturally-speaking, the cafeteria in the women's "club" became the most popular for penny-pinching grad students and retired townies. The fare was hardly tinged in girly shades: chili and thick, warming soups were what they did best.

Edited November 18, 2005 by Pontormo (log)

[Megan Blocker]

I have had the opportunity to spend a lot of time at the Harvard Club here in NYC (my brother and grandfather both attended Harvard as undergrads, and are both members).

I've really only ever been at night, at which point the crowd is pretty evenly divided between men and women, and, more and more, between age groups. I've met high school friends there for drinks, spent time at the bar or in the lounge with my brother, and met my grandparents for dinner.

My brother, due to an unusual work schedule, got to spend a lot of time there during the day when he first moved to the city. He said there are all sorts of clubs (History, Latin, Backgammon...) that meet before, during and after lunch, and that most are exclusively made up of retired men.

When my mom used to go to the club with her parents, women were not allowed in the main dining room. Times are changing* - I think as the female members of the club begin to retire in larger numbers, you may see more and more of them spend their days at the Harvard Club (or the Princeton Club, Yale Club, and so on), and those lunch clubs will become co-ed, or maybe even dominated by women.

For those who are curious, the menu is very WASPy/northeastern - prime rib, surf and turf, popovers, lamb chops, and so on. Good, solid and filling, but nothing too daring.

*ETA: Times may be changing, but they still won't let you use your cell phone anywhere but in the phone booth or coat rooms, which I love!

Edited November 18, 2005 by Megan Blocker (log)

[ruthcooks]

In the South, the ladies lunch on chicken salad and spiced tea in tearooms. A tearoom is defined by the absence of a grill and deep fryer in the kitchen. There are also lunches at "the club" (country clubs) and other private or public clubs such as those at colleges and museums. These ladies are likely to be older and more well off than the average.

[MarketStEl]

You mention the BEST song...and singer, surely.  However, there's also a Cole Porter song, not a favorite of mine, "Miss Otis Regrets" ["....she's unable to lunch today" is the first line] about a woman who cannot fulfill her social obligations having just shot her lover dead.

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Mabel Mercer does a wonderful rendition of this song, which is among my favorites.

Bette Midler, a pop performer who I by and large adore, wrecked it with her overly brassy rendition. It's supposed to be tasteful and decorous and understated, dont'cha know?

[MarketStEl]

Maybe a thread should be started on "Lads Who Lunch".

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In the circles I travel in, the lads do Sunday brunch, not lunch.

The men even take over the city's lone lesbian club at Sunday brunch, so ingrained is this ritual in gay male culture here.

Back to the ladies:

In Philadelphia, the Ladies Who Lunched did so at the Crystal Tea Room on the ninth floor of the old John Wanamaker department store. (Trivial aside: I am currently a part-time proofreader at an ad agency located on the 24th floor of One South Broad, a skyscraper erected by Mr. Wanamaker in the late 1920s (originally called the Victory Building). The street floors once housed his men's store; the 25th floor--also part of the agency's office space now--was his personal apartment.)

Wanamakers having long since been sold, and the nine-story, million-square-foot-plus store radically downsized to a three-story Lord & Taylor, the Crystal Tea Room is no longer open to LWLs, though you are certainly welcome to have your next wedding or corporate meeting there. L&T has installed a smaller cafe on their third floor, overlooking the seven-story-high Great Court in its center. I suspect that it gets a few LWLs now, but more can probably be found closer to Rittenhouse Square, where all the tonier shops decamped after Chestnut Street went into a retail coma circa 1983.

If you'd like to see some of these places, and you happen to be in Philadelphia, let me know. You can "Meet Me at the Eagle."