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Alba v. Perigord


ulterior epicure

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Hi eGulleters.

Can somebody please explain the difference (other than geographic origin) between truffles from Alba and those from Perigord? Are Alba always white and Perigord black, or do both areas produce both black and white?

I know there's a huge price difference - what accounts for it? Availability, taste, what?

I recently had a meal which featured "Alba" truffles. It was a generous shaving of a light coloured truffle. The taste was immensely strong and pungent - very very good... but, later, I saw both black and white truffles in a store that looked the same colour on the inside... is there anyway I can tell whether I had white/black Alba truffle?

Thanks much!

U.E. :raz:

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

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I can give you the 50 cent tour.

Alba - or white - truffles are all about the aroma, and texture. They have very little actual taste. They are always shaved raw - to cook them would destroy the aroma. Also, very few Alba truffles actually come from Alba - most in fact (in Italy as well) come from former Yugoslavia, Croatia etc. Bad imitations can come from China, and I understand they're almost worthless culinarily speaking. Typical uses include as a garnish for eggs, northern Italian pasta, risotto, gnocchi - plain starches usually served with no more than butter or a little cream and reggiano.

Black - or Perigord - truffles can be served raw or cooked. They can also (unlike their paler brethren) be preserved in veal or mushroom stock, or some do in alcohol. They tend to be approximately one fifth the price of white, and thus are used far more widely. Typical uses include pates, foie gras terrines, sauce perigourdine, scallops, poulet demi deuil (with truffle under the skin) and 40 or 50 other classics.

"Gimme a pig's foot, and a bottle of beer..." Bessie Smith

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Thanks Molto E.

1. Well, I'm pretty sure from your description that I had white truffle as it was VERY aromatic and didn't have much taste. I would also venture to guess that it was the real thing... as it was at a three star... I suppose to use a knock off would be embarrassing... but to be honest, I wouldn't know the difference.

2. So, am I to understand that the term "Alba" is exclusively reserved for white and "Perigord" for black?

3. Yes, I've encountered black truffles in all of the forms you've mentioned - including the most outstanding, which was a foie and black truffle demi-glace that I had last year at Le Bernardin.

U.E.

I can give you the 50 cent tour...

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

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ulteriorepicure@gmail.com

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Mmmmm. I love Truffles of all kinds, white, black, summer, winter, smooth and grainy but mainly the desert truffle.

As to the chinese stuff, apparently you can tell them apart not only by the scent but the pimples/dimples of the chinese ones are pointed/spiky while the Italin/French are more rounded!

So a word of advise, carry your magnifier lens when shopping for fresh truffles. :cool:

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This question indirectly came up this morning when I was in a local Italian foods specialty store inquiring about truffle oil. The clerk asked "white or black?". I wasn't quite sure- I know I've used it before for flavoring, say, a mushroom risotto. Probably used the white. Do I assume that the uses for the oil are similar to the truffles themselves? I've heard that buying truffle oil can be a gamble as to varying quality, etc. Anyone have any favorites? Sources? I am frequently in NYC.

Mark A. Bauman

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Alba - or white - truffles are all about the aroma, and texture. <snip> Bad imitations can come from China, and I understand they're almost worthless culinarily speaking.

The so-called Alba truffle is Tuber magnatum. A Chinese summer white truffle exists but is rare and, according to Wikipedia, has yet to be given a scientific name.

Two types of Chinese truffle are found on world markets and both are black: Chinese (T. sinensis aka T. Indicum); and Himalayan (T. himalayensis). I have experience only with the latter. It is indeed inferior to both the Périgord aka French aka winter truffle (T. melanosporum) and the summer aka Italian black truffle (T. aestivum). The Chinese black truffle is said to be inferior to the Himalayan.

I believe Oregon white and black truffles are different species from the any of the above.

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It is indeed inferior to both the Périgord aka French aka winter truffle (T. melanosporum) and the summer aka Italian black truffle (T. aestivum). The Chinese black truffle is said to be inferior to the Himalayan.

Could you please articulate/define "inferior?"

U.E.

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

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ulteriorepicure@gmail.com

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To my nose, Himalayan truffles smell very much like Périgord truffles but are short on flavour (the best use I've found for them is to truffle eggs); in cooked dishes, what little flavour they have fades even further. According to the Wikipedia article I linked to above, Chinese truffles look like their Périgord counterparts but taste bland and have a chewy texture; no one I know who has used them has been impressed. Italian black or summer truffles — which around here are the ones most commonly seen in cans and jars (look for the scientific name Tuber aestivum on the label) — are pleasant in their own right but don't begin to approach winter truffles in the intensity or complexity of their aroma and flavour.

Edited by carswell (log)
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There are about half a dozen types of truffles foraged and sold, and plenty of confusion. In the end, there is only one white and one black species that really count. There are a few other legitimate but less interesting ones and the rest are gastronomically worthless, mostly used to cheat.

Right now is the peak of "White" truffle season. We are enjoying a very good year after two recent dissappointing seasons. "Tuber magnatum pico", the true white truffle of Alba is the most expensive and sought after of all the truffles. It is found only in Italy, mainly in Piedmont and Umbria. It ripens in the fall and should be around well into December. Chefs are paying right around 1600 dollars a pound for good quality ones in the US right now. Larger truffles, at least "walnut" size and up are considered the best. There are a few really large truffles found every year, sometimes reaching over a pound. A good white truffle is very firm with incredible fragrance. It should linger on your fingers for 15 minutes after handling. The interior should be tannish and shot through with with whitish veins. For maximum flavor, truffles should be used as soon as possible although they retain some perfume for up to two weeks. When they start to soften and turn pink around the edges, your time is up. White truffles are invariably shaved raw onto warm food, their considerable magic is all in the aroma.

There are other white truffles that can be confused with, or worse, substituted for real Tuber magnatum. Most common is the "tuber bianchetti", literally whitish truffle, which is very white on the inside and of obvious inferior quality. Insist on "tuber magnatum", read labels carefully to verify the species.

The king of the black truffles is tuber melanosporum, commonly called the Perigord truffle or black winter truffle. They are not ripe yet and will come into season in December with the peak of flavor in January. They are found in a much wider range than the white truffle, both in France and Italy, even beyond, into Spain and the Balkans. In recent years they have crept up to about half the price of white truffles. A good white truffle season bodes well for the blacks to come. If you're eating tuber melanosporum right now it is preserved or frozen. The frozen is not bad at all if used wisely, but you still don't get the perfume of fresh.

Perigord truffles are used both raw and cooked. Storing a fresh black truffle in a tightly sealed jar overnight with fresh eggs produces a miracle of nature as the eggs absorb the truffle perfume right through their shells. A jar of truffled eggs is one of my favorite gifts to give at Christmas.

There is another fairly common black winter truffle, the "tuber brumale" or musky truffle. It is much less fragrant and flavorful than the true melanosporum. It is too often mixed up with true melanosporum, smell and verify every truffle you buy.

If you are seeing fresh black truffles right now they are possibly very late or old summer truffles, "tuber aestivum". More likely they are "Burgundy" truffles, "tuber uncinatum", a fall truffle found in Burgundy and some other parts of Eastern France. Both of these are legitimate culinary truffles. They have black warty exteriors like their superior cousin, but a brown interior with white veins and a less intense more nutty flavor. They're going for around $200 a pound right now.

There are American truffles grown in Oregon, both black and white. They are true truffles, but much less worthy species than their famous European cousins. They may be better than nothing, but I have yet to find them interesting.

The scourge of truffledom is the prevalence of Chinese truffles in the market. There are two species of black truffles that have been increasingly imported from China over the last fifteen years or so, both essentially the same crap. Although they are truffles and they are black, they have zero culinary value. Their allure is their cheap price. They cost from 40 to 75 dollars a pound, and even that's too much unless you have larceny in your heart. Simply put, Chinese black truffles make it easy to cheat. Unscrupulous dealers and chefs call them "black truffles" adhering loosely to the letter but not the spirit of truffles. I have not yet seen a chef proudly touting Chinese truffles on a menu. You can put Chinese truffles and truffle oil in a dish to make it "truffled" but it's impossible to make it taste good enough for the true connoisseur.

Lastly, there is the shame of truffle oil. Unless you've infused it yourself from real truffle, chances are you're looking at a chemically enhanced rip off. Chemists figured out how to synthesize many of the aromatic components in truffles some time ago. They even use them to train truffle dogs now. In my opinion, commercial truffle oil is a crutch used by those who are too cheap, lazy or dishonest to use the real thing in abundance. Truffle oil is offensively strong, leaves a heavy stain on the palate and ruins the rest of a meal for me. There is simply no substitute for a generous amount of great fresh truffle.

There is no such thing as a truffle bargain, if you're getting a really great price, you're getting old or otherwise compromised truffles. Don't sweat the price, $50 or even $100 a pound is insignificant, given the price of truffles. Quality is everything. Buy them from a source you can trust and build a relationship. Your loyalty will be rewarded with the best truffles.

I was recently given "The Little Book of Truffles" for my birthday. It's the best truffle book I've seen yet.

ISBN # 2-0801-0627-9

About 10 bucks on Amazon

Bon Appetit

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The interior should be tannish and shot through with with whitish veins. For maximum flavor, truffles should be used as soon as possible although they retain some perfume for up to two weeks. When they start to soften and turn pink around the edges, your time is up. White truffles are invariably shaved raw onto warm food, their considerable magic is all in the aroma.

Based on this description - I definitely had white truffles.

Perigord truffles are used both raw and cooked. Storing a fresh black truffle in a tightly sealed jar overnight with fresh eggs produces a miracle of nature as the eggs absorb the truffle perfume right through their shells. A jar of truffled eggs is one of my favorite gifts to give at Christmas.

Wow! That's a great idea!

1. Can you expound on the method (number of eggs, size of truffle, etc...)?

2. How would you prepare the eggs to maximize the treatment?

Lastly, there is the shame of truffle oil. Unless you've infused it yourself from real truffle, chances are you're looking at a chemically enhanced rip off.  Chemists figured out how to synthesize many of the aromatic components in truffles some time ago. They even use them to train truffle dogs now. In my opinion, commercial truffle oil is a crutch used by those who are too cheap, lazy or dishonest to use the real thing in abundance. Truffle oil is offensively strong, leaves a heavy stain on the palate and ruins the rest of a meal for me. There is simply no substitute for a generous amount of great fresh truffle. 

I've never understood the fascination, use... it never tastes like truffles like me...

There is no such thing as a truffle bargain, if you're getting a really great price, you're getting old or otherwise compromised truffles. Don't sweat the price, $50 or even $100 a pound is insignificant, given the price of truffles. Quality is everything. Buy them from a source you can trust and build a relationship. Your loyalty will be rewarded with the best truffles.

How much would a reasonably priced walnut-sized truffle weigh (ie. cost)?

Thanks for all the info and ideas!

U.E.

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

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A walnut sized truffle would be upwards of 30 grams, a good ounce for sure. At the current market price of $1600, that's about 100 dollars.

One nice walnut sized fragrant black truffle can perfume a dozen or more eggs in a tightly sealed jar very effectively. It takes about 36 hours to acheive maximum flavor.

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Is the truffle all "truffled" out after flavoring the eggs, or is it still good for cooking/shaving? I saw a discussion on the pros and cons of adding rice/risotto.

U.E.

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

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ulteriorepicure@gmail.com

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1600$ per pound is $100 per ounce. A good "walnut" size truffle is around an ounce. The truffle is not at all "spent" by storing it with eggs. The perfume imparted into the eggs is essentially free and you can use the truffle in other dishes as well.

Lightly scramble the eggs with a generous amount of butter.

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I think that Ken has given as good a short course as one needs. Moby P does not have it quite right about sourcing, however. It is true that white truffles, sometimes of inferior quality, are found in Eastern Europe, and some make their way into Italy (I am doubtful that many Chinese truffles find their way to Alba), but it is also true that quality white truffles are found in areas of Italy other than Alba, and that most of the white truffles consumed in the Alba area are local. What IS true is that the Perigord area of France cannot possibly meet demand, and thus, many black "Perigord" truffles come from the area around Norcia in Umbria, which is Italy's source of excellent quality and quantity of black truffles. I think that it is also wrong to suggest, despite the dominant aromatics, that white truffles generally lack taste. Instead, the taste is subtle and builds as you eat them, cumulatively, so that, if you eat a generous portion of good white truffles, the wonderful taste will linger for hours. I think that Marcella Hazan said it best, with words to the effect "black truffles are something that you eat when no white truffles are available". That accounts for the fact that white truffles are generally three times the cost of black. Lastly, summer truffles are, to my mind, merely decorative. They have little aroma and less taste, and in the Alba area, where they are abundant, they are all but given away. As noted above, the last of them are seen side by side with white truffles early in the white truffle season in Alba, and sold to bargain-hunting tourists who don't know much about truffles.

Bill Klapp

bklapp@egullet.com

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Hi eGulleters.

Can somebody please explain the difference (other than geographic origin) between truffles from Alba and those from Perigord?  Are Alba always white and Perigord black, or do both areas produce both black and white?

I know there's a huge price difference - what accounts for it?  Availability, taste, what?

I recently had a meal which featured "Alba" truffles.  It was a generous shaving of a light coloured truffle.  The taste was immensely strong and pungent - very very good... but, later, I saw both black and white truffles in a store that looked the same colour on the inside... is there anyway I can tell whether I had white/black Alba truffle?

Thanks much!

U.E. :raz:

I will add a little to Ken's excellent post. When talking truffles, I think that it is best to work out the species names as then you can be sure of what you are getting.

There are numerous species of truffles in Europe (over a dozen in Italy), not all of these are collected and only two are highly prized.

The while truffle of Alba Tuber magnatum pico

The Black Perigord truffle Tuber melanosporum

These two are found ouside these regions. In these regions there are some other truffles and in some cases these inferior species are considered a pest. If you see a cheap "Perigord truffle" it will not be Tuber melanosporum.

In the UK the other species you are likely to see for sale (and it actually grows in the UK) is;

The summer truffle Tuber aestivum. The season for this truffle is quite broad and you see the fresh even now. These have a dark warty exterior similar to the Tuber melanosporum, but are quite pale inside. I have several times seen these for sale in the UK sold as "Black Truffles" and priced as Tuber melanosporum, which is terrible. As they are quite pale, they are sometimes passed of as white summer truffles in restuarants, which again is a con.

There is nothing wrong with the summer truffle, it certainly isn't to be compared with Tuber magnatum pico or Tuber melanosporum and it is nice enough shaved on pasta (more aroma then flavour), but it should be sold as what it is and in season in Italy it is cheaper then parmesan.

In the UK there is a type of puffball with a black interior, which when flavoured with truffle oil is sometimes passed off as 'Black truffle'.

Edited by Adam Balic (log)
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"Tuber magnatum pico", the true white truffle of Alba is the most expensive and sought after of all the truffles. It is found only in Italy, mainly in Piedmont and Umbria.

Tuber magnatum pico or Alba truffle is also found in Croatia and Slovenia.

They are not ripe yet and will come into season in December with the peak of flavor in January.

The season for melanosporum starts in late November but they are not particularly flavorful until late December. They start to be reasonably good in January but the real peak of flavor is often in late February or March depending on the exact origin of the truffle.

There is another fairly common black winter truffle, the "tuber brumale" or musky truffle. It is much less fragrant and flavorful than the true melanosporum. It is too often mixed up with true melanosporum, smell and verify every truffle you buy.

Indeed, when buying several unbrushed truffles in a sac one may end up having the odd brumale among the truffles. Some brumales are actually quite flavorful and if an unbrushed brumale has been around with melanosporums, it can be quite difficult to pinpoint it just by smelling it. The best way to spot them is to scratch the surface. If it easily falls of, it is a brumale. Also the pattern inside is quite different.

What IS true is that the Perigord area of France cannot possibly meet demand, and thus, many black "Perigord" truffles come from the area around Norcia in Umbria, which is Italy's source of excellent quality and quantity of black truffles. 

The vast majority of the French production (80 % or so) of Perigord truffles comes from an area in Drome, Vaucluse, Var and the Provencal Alps and not from Perigord.

I think that Marcella Hazan said it best, with words to the effect "black truffles are something that you eat when no white truffles are available".  That accounts for the fact that white truffles are generally three times the cost of black.

I think this is a complete misunderstanding of these two noble ingredients. Comparing Alba truffles and Perigord truffles is simply not meaningful. Alba truffles should be seen as a condiment and they cannot be cooked. Perigord truffles can be cooked, eaten raw, integrated into preparations or sauces or serve as a condiment like the Alba truffles. The Perigord truffles offer not only an aromatic sensation but also a textural sensation that the Alba truffle lacks. They are both great produce but so different both in taste and appearance that it is difficult to say one is better than the other. It is true however that you do not need a great chef to really enjoy Alba truffles but even a very good chef can mess up Perigord truffles.

If you measure it from simply a flavour point of view, I have had Perigord truffles at the end of the season that have been as full of flavours as the best Alba truffles I have had.

As for the pricing, well it really says nothing with respect to which is the best. The production of Perigord truffles is much larger and easier to harvest but prices are still climbing and the differences have the last years been less than previously.

When my glass is full, I empty it; when it is empty, I fill it.

Gastroville - the blog

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There is nothing wrong with the summer truffle, it certainly isn't to be compared with Tuber magnatum pico or Tuber melanosporum and it is nice enough shaved on pasta (more aroma then flavour), but it should be sold as what it is and in season in Italy it is cheaper then parmesan.

I absolutely agree. I adore truffles, but Perigord and Alba truffles are a rare treat and haven't made it onto my list of staples yet. But that doesn't mean that the cheaper "touristy" summer truffles have no value. As Adam mentioned, they're really cheap in Italy when in season and a good buy for what they are, as is the rustic salsa tartufato which can be bought in jars and is great on bruschetta.

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I'm standing at my stove popping some popcorn (something which I consume in un-Godly quantities on a regular basis)... and I had a most delicious thought... you probably know where this one's going based on the subject of this forum... YEP, has anyone ever shaved/infused/sprinkled truffles over their popcorn?

I know, it sounds like somthing only an insanely extravagent person, say A. Ducasse, would do/serve... but why not? I'm a popcorn freak - and I wonder what "truffled" popcorn would be like - well, I know - done successfully, it'd be HEAVENLY. I'm sure it's been done - anyone with an encounter?

Happy crunching on this one!

U.E.

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

My flickr account

ulteriorepicure@gmail.com

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I'm standing at my stove popping some popcorn (something which I consume in un-Godly quantities on a regular basis)... and I had a most delicious thought... you probably know where this one's going based on the subject of this forum... YEP, has anyone ever shaved/infused/sprinkled truffles over their popcorn? 

I know, it sounds like somthing only an insanely extravagent person, say A. Ducasse, would do/serve... but why not?  I'm a popcorn freak - and I wonder what "truffled" popcorn would be like - well, I know - done successfully, it'd be HEAVENLY.  I'm sure it's been done - anyone with an encounter?

Happy crunching on this one!

U.E.

Intriguing. The truffle store in Pike Place market in Seattle sells truffle salt which was actually surprisingly truffly in flavour. Maybe a sprinkle of that cut with some regular salt on popcorn would work. It's $22 for 100gm (3.5 oz?) which is not terrific value but it's not absurd either.

What about truffles from more exotic regions? I know they have started harvesting them in Tasmania recently and some in Western Australia as well. A friend of mine claims to have an aunt who harvests them in England and theres oregon ones as well. It's hard to filter out the hype from the content but I've read several accounts of chefs raving on about how they are as good if not better than Perigolds. In part though, it might be an issue of freshness more than anything else.

PS: I am a guy.

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What about truffles from more exotic regions? I know they have started harvesting them in Tasmania recently and some in Western Australia as well. A friend of mine claims to have an aunt who harvests them in England and theres oregon ones as well. It's hard to filter out the hype from the content but I've read several accounts of chefs raving on about how they are as good if not better than Perigolds. In part though, it might be an issue of freshness more than anything else.

Again it is the species that is important. The oregon truffles are a North American native that doesn't compare to he Alba and Perigord (Tuber magnatum pico and Tuber melanosporum) truffles. The English truffles will be summer truffles (Tuber aestivum), which are discussed above.

The Australian truffles are Perigord black truffles (Tuber melanosporum) that have been innoculated onto specifically planted plots of young oak. I haven't had these, but there is no reason to thik that they wil not be a good product. I have seen some comments on the basis that it would be like comparing farmed salmon to wild salmon, but these comments miss the point that most of the French harvest comes from innoculated plots as well. There could be an issue of terroir, but this works in both directions. Maybe Australian grown Tuber melanosporum will turn out to be like NZ Sav. Blanc - giving another dimension to the flavour and aroma profile of an old world product. Time will tell.

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The best way to get truffle flavor into your popcorn would be butter. Truffle flavor infuses very nicely into warm melted butter. For optimum extraction of flavor, grate the truffle with a fine microplane.

"Truffle salt" is certain to be just as artificially flavored as truffle oil.

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