Where to shop for special ingredients?

[hzrt8w]

I have difficulties shopping for some special ingredients for Chinese cooking. I would like to ask the board for some tips. I thought others may have difficulties finding certain ingredients too so feel free to ask in this thread.

In general, you can find many grocery items and dry goods for cooking Chinese food in an Asian grocery market in the USA/Canada/etc.. If you live in an area populated with Chinese immigrants (e.g. Bay Area, Los Angeles), those grocery stores are very comprehensive. There are, however, some special items that you would not find in general Asian grocery markets. Examples: bird nest, dried oysters, dried conpoy, ginseng (maybe). In Hong Kong, these special items are carried in what is called hoi mei [Cantonese] (dry seafood) shops. There are plenty of these specialty shops along Stockton Street in San Francisco China Town. But in Sacramento where I live, they are far and between.

And for some herbal types of ingredients, you may need to go to a Chinese herbal medicine shop to purchase.

Recently, what I have been unable to find in my neighborhood Asian grocery markets are:

1) Dried shrimp roes (Har Gee [Cantonese]) - to be used to braise with sea cucumbers.

2) Dried fish maw (Yu To [Cantonese] - literally this is a fish's stomach. To be used to in a steamed dish with chicken.

Has anybody purchased the above items for cooking? Where did you find them? In specialty stores or general Asian grocery stores (which section)?

[Dejah]

I have difficulties shopping for some special ingredients for Chinese cooking.  I would like to ask the board for some tips.  I thought others may have

Recently, what I have been unable to find in my neighborhood Asian grocery markets are:

2)  Dried fish maw (Yu To [Cantonese] - literally this is a fish's stomach.  To be used to in a steamed dish with chicken.

Has anybody purchased the above items for cooking?  Where did you find them?  In specialty stores or general Asian grocery stores (which section)?

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In the Asian grocery store I go to, the dried fish maw is usually found where other ingredients are located: dried mushrooms, oysters, squid, etc.

Is that going to be in an upcoming pictorial?

[hzrt8w]

Is that going to be in an upcoming pictorial?

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Thanks, I will give it a try. Sure, if I can find fish maw or shrimp roe.

Fish maw - steamed chicken with fish maw in lotus leaves

Shrimp roe - braised sea cucumber with shrimp roe

The ginseng chicken soup is brewing in the sssslllloooowww cooker!

And some yummy beef shank pics will be uploaded shortly!

<---- that's a rolling tongue smiley

Edited October 25, 2005 by hzrt8w (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Just to state an obvious tip, get to know the owners and ask. Many small businesses are very happy to cultivate relationships with individuals, and thus would be more than willing to order special items or add those items to their stocks. In my area, a lot of shop owners also import or work closely with importers (mainly in NYC); I'd imagine that's true in Sacramento, too.

[SuzySushi]

Recently, what I have been unable to find in my neighborhood Asian grocery markets are:

1)  Dried shrimp roes (Har Gee [Cantonese]) - to be used to braise with sea cucumbers.

2)  Dried fish maw (Yu To [Cantonese] - literally this is a fish's stomach.  To be used to in a steamed dish with chicken.

Has anybody purchased the above items for cooking?  Where did you find them?  In specialty stores or general Asian grocery stores (which section)?

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Never purchased either, but to add to chrisamault's advice: ask! Because these ingredients are somewhat weird (and possibly expensive? dried shrimp roes?) they may be kept behind the counter instead of out in the open. The Asian supermarkets here all have a food-medicine section, which is where they keep stuff like ginseng, white fungus, and birds nest, as well as Chinese medicinal herbs.

Or, if they don't normally carry them, they might be able to special-order some because they know they'll have a customer (you). I even do this with regular foods at my local supermarkets -- if they don't have what I want, I'll ask if they can special-order it for me.

[hzrt8w]

I finally found some fish maw in a local Asian grocery store. They were located in the section where dried shitake mushrooms, dried dates and such were placed. Out of the only few packages that the store carried, they looked very dusty and unappealing. US $11.00 for a 3-oz pack, about 5 pieces of fish maw.

I think I will wait until a trip to San Francisco China Town to see if there are better selections.

[Dejah]

  Out of the only few packages that the store carried, they looked very dusty and unappealing.  US $11.00 for a 3-oz pack, about 5 pieces of fish maw.

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That's even more expensive than in Manitoba!

Hurry up and go to "Frisco, Ah Leung. I want fish maw/chicken in lotus leaf!

[jo-mel]

The only time I've seen and bought them was in NYC's Chinatown and they were hanging from the ceiling in plastic packages. You couldn't miss them there!!

I'm with Chrisamirault and for asking at a grocer --- or even a restaurant.

But then a trip to SF's Chinatown would be fun. If you go-- stop at Bow Hon on Grant St. and have one of their clay pot dishes and then do a chicken/sausage sandy pot for us.

--- will ya? Huh?Huh?

[hzrt8w]

But then a trip to SF's Chinatown would be fun. If you go-- stop at Bow Hon on Grant St. and have one of their clay pot dishes and then do a chicken/sausage  sandy pot for us.

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Thanks for the tip. I need to look them up.

Chicken/sausage in sandy pot...

Steamed chicken with fish maw wrapped in lotus leave...

Hmmmmmm....

Mouth is watering!

[BarbaraY]

I have never looked for these particular items but I shop for most things Chinese at Kwong Tuck Wo on the corner of Hazelton and San Joaquin in Stockton.

They have a large selection of things beyond my comprehension but are always very helpful when asked questions.

[hzrt8w]

I really like doing dry good shopping at China Town, San Francisco. The most popular shops are along Stockton Street. Grant is just for tourists.

Because so many shops essentially carrying the same merchandise, competition is high. Prices are very competitive. Their typical patrons, old immigrants in their 60's and 70's, know!

I found the fish maw. A big bag. US $14.00 for about 1/2 lb. Looks very nice too. Much better than what I saw (and only one brand) in Sacramento. I forgot to ask them about dry shrimp roes. Perhaps next time.

I also bought some nice, big dry scallops, US $38.00 a pound. (The really good ones can go for US $100 a pound. Big dry oysters, US $15.00 a pound. Even a big salted fish (haam yu), Dejah, for about US $7.00. It is the "three teeth" like you mentioned. But mine is not fermented. There are just endless numbers of salted fish, laap cheung (Chinese sausages), dry sea cucumbers, gin seng to choose from.

I saw some small dry shark fins, between US $200 to $300 a pound. Maybe I will get some next time. Along with some dry abalone.

While I am at it, of course, I bought some Hong Kong style pastries and BBQ pork and roast pork and soya sauce chicken - US $2.50 a chicken, you wouldn't believe...

[hzrt8w]

But then a trip to SF's Chinatown would be fun. If you go-- stop at Bow Hon on Grant St. and have one of their clay pot dishes and then do a chicken/sausage  sandy pot for us.

--- will ya? Huh?Huh?

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jo-mel: I did stop by Bow Hon Restaurant that you mentioned last Saturday.

I took a look at their menu. Lots of sandy pot dishes! Excellent! When I came home, I found that Bow Hon is featured in Martin Yan's cookbook "Chinatown"! That restaurant must have a long history.

I went in to the restaurant to take a look, and also got a take-out version of their menu. The menu is hugh! Looks more like a folded city map.

Let's see... Specialty Rice in Clay Pots...

Mushrooms, Chicken & Sausage... (done that, minus the sausage)

Salted Fish & Sliced Pork... (done that)

Poached Egg & Beef...

Preserved Duck & Sausage...

I've bought some laap cheung (Chinese sausage) and laap gnap (Preserved duck)... we can certainly do that... almost too easy...

[Dejah]

  Even a big salted fish (haam yu), Dejah, for about US $7.00.  It is the "three teeth" like you mentioned.  But mine is not fermented. 

soya sauce chicken - US $2.50 a chicken, you wouldn't believe...

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The ham yu is about the same price then, depending on the weight. I noticed that the fermented variety was a little more expensive than the firm texture ones. Really! They charge more for the "rotten stuff!" Shouldn't they charge less for "old stuff gone bad?"

I can't believe $2.50 for a soya chicken! Can't buy a fresh one for that! Are you sure it is not infected with avain flu ?

[hzrt8w]

I can't believe $2.50 for a soya chicken! Can't buy a fresh one for that! Are you sure it is not infected with avain flu ?  

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The fermented variety costs more because it's in demand and tastes better! Takes more work to produce too.

They have been selling soya sauce chicken for under $3.00 each for ages... If I live near China Town I would not need to cook. (My wife used to. For about a year. Good for her as she doesn't cook...)

[hzrt8w]

I would like to experiment with Cantonese BBQ at home: roast chicken, roast ducks and such. I see that in restaurants, they use some hooks to hook up the birds (while roasting as well as when displaying at the store front). Does anybody know of a source to get these "hooks" at a retail level? Have you seen them? Or are there some ingenious ways to skew up the birds and rotate them inside a conventional oven? I have tried some of those much-touted rotisserie chicken ovens (like the George Foreman oven) but they don't seem to work well at all. With one model that I have tried, the skewers kept falling off the rotating rack!

Also, how do you sew the opening of a duck or chicken to keep the marinade in the cavity? Do they use special (big) needles and threads?

[jo-mel]

I would like to experiment with Cantonese BBQ at home:  roast chicken, roast ducks and such.  I see that in restaurants, they use some hooks to hook up the birds (while roasting as well as when displaying at the store front).  Does anybody know of a source to get these "hooks" at a retail level?  Have you seen them?  Or are there some ingenious ways to skew up the birds and rotate them inside a conventional oven?  I have tried some of those much-touted rotisserie chicken ovens (like the George Foreman oven) but they don't seem to work well at all.  With one model that I have tried, the skewers kept falling off the rotating rack!

Also, how do you sew the opening of a duck or chicken to keep the marinade in the cavity?  Do they use special (big) needles and threads?

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I've made a hook using a thin wire clothes hanger. Just twisted the metal till it broke and then used a length to form the s-shaped hook.

[I_call_the_duck]

Also, how do you sew the opening of a duck or chicken to keep the marinade in the cavity?  Do they use special (big) needles and threads?

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I don't have an answer to rotating the bird in the oven, but think I saw a rotisserie that goes in your oven. I've seen the hooks in various sizes in NY Chinatown, but Jo-mel's idea sounds like a good one.

As far as sewing the opening, I've seen people just take a giant skewer to close up the opening. I just take my biggest sewing needle and sew it up with unwaxed dental floss, which works better than string because it doesn't stick to the skin. I'm not sure if this will work, but how about freezing the marinade before putting it into the cavity so it seeps slowly while roasting?

[Dejah]

I'm not sure if this will work, but how about freezing the marinade before putting it into the cavity so it seeps slowly while roasting?

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That freezer idea for the marinade would work well, but you may want the marinade to sit and work on the bird a couple of hours before you roast it.

The dental floss works well. I use a big curved needle that comes in packets of sewing needles when I sew up meat of any kind.

As for hooks, check in restaurant supply shops. These would have sharpened ends. Or you can try plant nurseries. They have big S hooks for hanging plant baskets.

Jo's idea with the hanger would work well unless the bird is really heavy.

[hzrt8w]

[...]I don't have an answer to rotating the bird in the oven, but think I saw a rotisserie that goes in your oven.  I've seen the hooks in various sizes in NY Chinatown, but Jo-mel's idea sounds like a good one.

[...]

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Thanks for the ideas, ladies. jo-mel's idea is good. But I am concerned on: (1) sterilization of the coat hangers, and (2) how to prevent them from rusting, and (3) whether they have enough strength to hold up a chicken/duck.

Karen: do you have more specifies on what you saw? That seems very interesting and it is something I want to take a closer look at. Where did you see the rotisserie set up? What store? How does it look?

The dental fross trick is great! It might just work very well.

Edited December 9, 2005 by hzrt8w (log)

[I_call_the_duck]

Thanks for the ideas, ladies.  jo-mel's idea is good.  But I am concerned on: (1) sterilization of the coat hangers, and (2) how to prevent them from rusting, and (3) whether they have enough strength to hold up a chicken/duck.

Karen: do you have more specifies on what you saw?  That seems very interesting and it is something I want to take a closer look at.  Where did you see the rotisserie set up?  What store?  How does it look?

The dental fross trick is great!  It might just work very well.

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Ah Leung, I’m afraid I don't have many specifics about that oven. I haven’t actually seen one—I remember reading a cookbook many years ago (back in the 70s) which referred to a rotisserie inside an oven. I looked around, and found that there were some stoves made back in the 50s and 60s that actually had built-in rotisserie attachments in their ovens (Fridgidaire and maybe GE--no good pics). I may have been thinking about that, because now I'm not sure if there is an actual machine that goes inside your oven.

I saw these that go on your stovetop by: Jenn-Air (for electric stoves) and Whirlpool.

Most everything else that I’ve googled turned up with either the Ronco “set it and forget it” type of machine or an attachment for an outside grill. Sorry if I can’t be of more help.

…and if you’re using dental floss, don’t forget to use unwaxed (you may have a big mess otherwise ).

[SuzySushi]

I don't think you need to worry about sterilizing the coat hangers because the ducks/chickens/whatever are roasted after they're hung up to dry. Or you could always buy chrome plated S hooks at a hardware store. They sell various sizes.

[Seitch]

Next time you go to SF, be sure to try the sausages from Mow Li. It's on Commercial, right off of Grant, near the Eastern bakery. Commercial is a tiny street so you can't miss it.

[jo-mel]

As far as how clean or sterile a clothes hanger is, it is just as clean as any utensil anywhere. I had mine for years and they never even rusted.

Also , they are strong enough to hold a duck. There are several guages of wire that I have seen. A thin white one which I didn't use. a much thicker one which I didn't use either, and a middle thickness which I used. If you bend the wire over and over, metal fatigue sets in and it breaks right off. Then find the length you wish and work on that end till it, too, breaks. Then just form an "S"and there you have it!

[Less-is-More]

I have difficulties shopping for some special ingredients for Chinese cooking.  I would like to ask the board for some tips.

There are plenty of these specialty shops along Stockton Street in San Francisco China Town.  But in Sacramento where I live, they are far and between.

I live in northern California, and Sacramento is the closest metroplitan area. (I moved from SF, so I miss Chinatown)

I like to cook dim sum, and am looking for a source for a great chinese grocery -- wide array of ingredients. I recently went to Asian Food Center (13th & Broadway) and found most, but not all of the things I was looking for.

A friend told me about a few groceries next to "Ocean Gardens" restaurant, but I'm wondering if he got the wrong restaurant name, because I can't locate it.

Any help locating that or other great grocers/areas would be appreciated!

Aside: just made dim sum for friends... Har Gau, Wor Tip (potstickers), Nor Mai Gai (Steamed Rice in Lotus leaves), Hoisin wings, Steamed Anise Almond Buns. YUM cha, indeed!

[hzrt8w]

I live in northern California, and Sacramento is the closest metroplitan area.  (I moved from SF, so I miss Chinatown)

I like to cook dim sum, and am looking for a source for a great chinese grocery -- wide array of ingredients. I recently went to Asian Food Center (13th & Broadway) and found most, but not all of the things I was looking for.

A friend told me about a few groceries next to "Ocean Gardens" restaurant, but I'm wondering if he got the wrong restaurant name, because I can't locate it.

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Less-is-More: Welcome to eGullet to you too! We seem to have many new participants lately. That's wonderful!

Asian Food Center is very small with limited selections. Your friend has the name mixed up. The restaurant is called "Happy Garden", which is the one I frequent. Along Stockton Blvd, between Fruitridge and Florin, you can find about half a dozen big Asian grocery stores. My favorite is called "SF Market", at the corner of 65th and Stockton Blvd. It is the most modern and cleanest/tidest you can find. I also go to other smaller ones for better price on certain items. The second favorite is Vihn Phat, and Wing Wa. A&A and Goldstar are okay. And there is Kwan Hing. Between these half a dozen grocery stores, and a few specialized dried seafood/herb stores, you should be able to find >90% of the ingredients to use in Chinese cookings. For some hard-to-get stuff, or for quality dried seafood/herb, I go out to San Francisco China Town once a quarter to 4 months to shop (really... just an excuse to get my fix of some nice dim sum and seafood dinners... )

Edited January 3, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)