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TallDrinkOfWater

New Generation Gins

370 posts in this topic

In a recent issue of Saveur, Mr. Wondrich had an article in which he turned up some 19th Century quotes which described Plymouth Gin as something like (don't have the article on hand), "being flavored with the wash of whiskey distilleries".

Since that article, while chatting with some folks who worked for Pernod-Ricard, they said they had tracked down a vintage sample of Plymouth and confirmed those descriptions of the product.

Anyway, it makes sense, at least in terms of English Gin's evolution from something heavily resembling Genever to modern day London Dry Gin.


Edited by eje (log)

---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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Right. So perhaps slightly malty but still highly aromatic?. Anyway, not all that much like what they're selling now, I suppose is the point. Some malty-ness certainly would have made it possible to differentiate as a stylistic category of gin distinct from London dry.

The guys at Breuckelen Distilling might be making something a bit like this, as they are distilling their base spirit from wheat mash. Whether and to what extent they have knowledge about making gin, I couldn't say. I might see if I can catch a taste of it somewhere. For a just released spirit out of a distillery that just made its first run in June and settled on gin botanicals in mid-July, almost 40 bucks a bottle is a bit too rich for my blood for all the reasons previously stated.


Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

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. . . As far as I can tell, Bols is marketing it as a substitute for Plymouth, and in the mouth it does lean more Plymouth than London, but ymmv. . . .
That's an interesting thought. My understanding is that Plymouth style gin used to be fairly different from what it is today, and kind-of split the difference between London dry and genever. It's unclear to me that there is a meaningful categorical style difference between today's Plymouth gin and what may be called London dry gin.

I guess the question is whether it would taste good (even if different) as a substitute for Plymouth.

Right. So perhaps slightly malty but still highly aromatic?. Anyway, not all that much like what they're selling now, I suppose is the point. Some malty-ness certainly would have made it possible to differentiate as a stylistic category of gin distinct from London dry. The guys at Breuckelen Distilling might be making something a bit like this, as they are distilling their base spirit from wheat mash. Whether and to what extent they have knowledge about making gin, I couldn't say. I might see if I can catch a taste of it somewhere. For a just released spirit out of a distillery that just made its first run in June and settled on gin botanicals in mid-July, almost 40 bucks a bottle is a bit too rich for my blood for all the reasons previously stated.

I think Dry Fly gin from Spokane Washington uses wheat mash. I don't recall it being very malty or junipery, though.


It's almost never bad to feed someone.

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Right. So perhaps slightly malty but still highly aromatic?. Anyway, not all that much like what they're selling now, I suppose is the point. Some malty-ness certainly would have made it possible to differentiate as a stylistic category of gin.

My understanding is that Plymouth used a mix of rectified spirit and whiskey wash, spiced with an English-style botanical mix (in fact, the same one they're using now). The word back in the nineteenth century was that it split the difference between an English-style gin and a Dutch genever, and that would definitely do it. It's sort of an on-the-fly equivalent of a blended base spirit, such as the Dutch took to using in the 1820s and 1830s, plus all the botanical spice we expect from an Old Tom or London Dry. Ironically this is more or less the procedure Tad Seestedt came up with for the ransom Old Tom, a year and a half before I found that stuff about the Plymouth (see, e.g., here), although Tad also does some barrel aging.

This process may explain why Plymouth was so popular in America at the turn of the last century, when we were switching from a Hollands drinking country to an English gin drinking country (it wasn't until 1899 or 1900 that imports of English gin surpassed those of Dutch gin).

To my palate, the Damrak has a certain irreducible Dutchness to its flavor profile. I don't know if it's the botanicals or the texture of the spirit, but it's definitely geneverish.


aka David Wondrich

There are, according to recent statistics, 147 female bartenders in the United States. In the United Kingdom the barmaid is a feature of the wayside inn, and is a young woman of intelligence and rare sagacity. --The Syracuse Standard, 1895

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Interesting! What do you think would be a workable reasonable approximation of the older Plymouth style, at least in spirit? Damrak? Damrak mixed with modern Plymouth? Modern Plymouth mixed with Bols genever? Modern Plymouth mixed with Genevieve? Ransom Old Tom?


Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

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I don't know if it's a reasonable representation, but a mix of Bols Genever and Plymouth is tasty in older cocktail recipes which call for Plymouth style gin. Plymouth and Genevieve doesn't really work, I blame Fritz' fondness for Star Anise, but Junipero and Genevieve is pretty good.

Ransom has more citrus flavor than either of the above, but is fun to play with too.


---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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Will be interesting to see how this turns out;

http://www.drinksint.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/1664

Bruichladdich to make gin

Islay: Bruichladdich distillery has started to produce gin. The Islay distillery, usually associated with peaty whisky, began making its first batch of gin today (3 August).

The gin, which is yet to be named, contains 30 botanicals - 21 Islay and 9 regular like coriander and juniper. The Islay botanicals include Angelica, Bog Myrtle, sweet Lady’s Bedstraw, Mace and Broom Flower.

Botanicals from further a field include citrus and coriander.

Bruichladdich chief executive Mark Reynier said the company’s new-found ability to produce gin is down to the purchase of an old still.

He said: “We found an old, unique still that was designed in 1955 to produce various different effects via its interchangeable neck. It’s called a Lomond still.”

Reynier said everything we know about making whisky, comes from ‘usquebaugh’.

“This is the clear spirit people were making when they were distilling illicitly in the hills. It wasn’t very pleasant and so they flavoured it with whatever they could find.

“We found a recipe from 1715 that includes Mace, Cloves and Cinnamon. It’s very similar to what you find it gin.”

Bruichladdich has been working with a local botanist called Dr Galliver to source botanicals from Islay. The first version, which is expected to be ready by September, will include the botanicals previously listed but the gin is to be a seasonal product and the next batch will include botanicals available during the season it is produced.

The gin is to be bottled at 46% and Reynier said it is to retail for around £26.


Evo-lution - Consultancy, Training and Events

Dr. Adam Elmegirab's Bitters - Bitters

The Jerry Thomas Project - Tipplings and musings

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That sounds intriguing to say the least. And we won't have to wait 12 years to try it!


Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

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That sounds intriguing to say the least. And we won't have to wait 12 years to try it!

I'm particularly interested in the 1715 recipe and how they're going to utilise it in their gin (what style of gin this'll be, I'd love to know).


Edited by evo-lution (log)

Evo-lution - Consultancy, Training and Events

Dr. Adam Elmegirab's Bitters - Bitters

The Jerry Thomas Project - Tipplings and musings

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So, we get home from work and my wife suggests a cocktail before dinner. An idea I can support with enthusiasm. What would you like? I ask. She replies, An Aviation.

I ice up a couple of glasses, grab some lemons, squeeze out the juice, strain it to get the seeds and pulp out. Ice up my shaker, hand cracked you know. Stroll over to the shelf, grab the Luxardo and the Creme de Violette.

And than it happened. I broke out into a cold sweat. My hands started to shake. My heart was pounding in my chest. There it was staring right at me. The bottle was a soothing color, but I knew it was trouble. Bluecoat. Frantically, I scanned the cabinet looking for some Beefeater or Tanqueray or Gordons. None to be found.

I stammered out to my wife, How about a Sidecar or an Americano? No she replied, I'd like an Aviation.

With shame I took the bottle over and made the drink.

I presented it to her head bowed in disgrace. Luckily for me, she loves me and did not greet me with reproach. Silently I sipped mine knowing the sin I had committed.

Oh the humanity!!!!!

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So, we get home from work and my wife suggests a cocktail before dinner. An idea I can support with enthusiasm. What would you like? I ask. She replies, An Aviation.

I ice up a couple of glasses, grab some lemons, squeeze out the juice, strain it to get the seeds and pulp out. Ice up my shaker, hand cracked you know. Stroll over to the shelf, grab the Luxardo and the Creme de Violette.

And than it happened. I broke out into a cold sweat. My hands started to shake. My heart was pounding in my chest. There it was staring right at me. The bottle was a soothing color, but I knew it was trouble. Bluecoat. Frantically, I scanned the cabinet looking for some Beefeater or Tanqueray or Gordons. None to be found.

I stammered out to my wife, How about a Sidecar or an Americano? No she replied, I'd like an Aviation.

With shame I took the bottle over and made the drink.

I presented it to her head bowed in disgrace. Luckily for me, she loves me and did not greet me with reproach. Silently I sipped mine knowing the sin I had committed.

Oh the humanity!!!!!

Bravo! That was brilliant. And shame on you for serving your loving wife something that is barely fit for degreasing Amish buggy axles. You cad!


Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

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Cold River Vodka gets a gin sibling

"Head distiller Chris Dowe bases the gin on a 400-year-old traditional gin recipe that utilizes seven botanicals -- the requisite juniper berries plus coriander, lemon and orange peel, cardamom, orris root and angelica root. The base spirit is made from potatoes grown at the family-owned Green Thumb Farms in Fryeburg, ME, just as the signature vodka is made. The finished product is gluten free with no added sugar."

Wacky, Gin on a potato vodka base?

Anyone had a chance to try this one yet?


---

Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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Wacky, Gin on a potato vodka base?

You think? My thinking is that high proof neutral ethyl alcohol is high proof neutral ethyl alcohol. Most likely, the reason grain neutral spirits is the usual choice for gin is simply because that is the cheapest and easiest sugar source in the major gin-producing areas of the world (UK and USA).

Meanwhile, $25 bucks a bottle seems reasonable enough.


Edited by slkinsey (log)

Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

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AND my friend with Celiac disease can drink it.

This is actually rather major.

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I wonder how many products there out playing in the "dry gin" playground that are not on a base of grain spirit. Cold River is on a potato spirit. G'Vine is on a grape spirit. Both should be able to be consumed by those with Celiac disease.


Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

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I wonder how many products there out playing in the "dry gin" playground that are not on a base of grain spirit. Cold River is on a potato spirit. G'Vine is on a grape spirit. Both should be able to be consumed by those with Celiac disease.

I can see I have to check into this further. Thanks. (She always has the fear that even products that claim to be based on non-grain spirits have a bit of them in there. I don't really know how to allay that.)

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I would've never guessed that gluten was volatile enough to pass through a still. Is this true?


Andy Arrington

Journeyman Drinksmith

Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

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Unless subsequently flavored, all distilled spirits should be gluten-free.


True rye and true bourbon wake delight like any great wine...dignify man as possessing a palate that responds to them and ennoble his soul as shimmering with the response.

DeVoto, The Hour

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So "gluten-free" is like the "It's toasted!" Lucky Strike campaign?

Many in the gluten-free world have horror stories about products that should have been gluten free being cross contaminated by other products in the same production/supply chain, or some unscrupulous process used by the manufacturer. So, if a brand wants to make the claim "gluten free" and are willing to back it up, more power to them. I personally don't have an issue with gluten, so I don't know how big a deal it might be...I do know the science of distillation leaves no room for gluten in the result. What the distiller does after that, we have little control over.


True rye and true bourbon wake delight like any great wine...dignify man as possessing a palate that responds to them and ennoble his soul as shimmering with the response.

DeVoto, The Hour

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Based on the comments here, I'm wondering if Death's Door didn't change their formula when they changed their label and bottle. The stuff I have is the most savory gin I've ever tasted, what with the wild juniper, a pronounced vegetal (celery?) note, and an oily mouthfeel. I'm really enjoying the 2:1 Martini I am drinking now (with old NP and a dash of Regan's/Fee's orange, lemon twist).

Anyone else have this on hand?


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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Anyone have any thoughts on Beefeater Wet? I understand that it's been discontinued, and local BevMo is unloading it for $9.99 per bottle.


"Martinis should always be stirred, not shaken, so that the molecules lie sensuously one on top of the other." - W. Somerset Maugham

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Will be interesting to see how this turns out;

http://www.drinksint.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/1664

Bruichladdich to make gin

Islay: Bruichladdich distillery has started to produce gin. The Islay distillery, usually associated with peaty whisky, began making its first batch of gin today (3 August).

The gin, which is yet to be named, contains 30 botanicals - 21 Islay and 9 regular like coriander and juniper. The Islay botanicals include Angelica, Bog Myrtle, sweet Lady’s Bedstraw, Mace and Broom Flower.

Botanicals from further a field include citrus and coriander.

Bruichladdich chief executive Mark Reynier said the company’s new-found ability to produce gin is down to the purchase of an old still.

He said: “We found an old, unique still that was designed in 1955 to produce various different effects via its interchangeable neck. It’s called a Lomond still.”

Reynier said everything we know about making whisky, comes from ‘usquebaugh’.

“This is the clear spirit people were making when they were distilling illicitly in the hills. It wasn’t very pleasant and so they flavoured it with whatever they could find.

“We found a recipe from 1715 that includes Mace, Cloves and Cinnamon. It’s very similar to what you find it gin.”

Bruichladdich has been working with a local botanist called Dr Galliver to source botanicals from Islay. The first version, which is expected to be ready by September, will include the botanicals previously listed but the gin is to be a seasonal product and the next batch will include botanicals available during the season it is produced.

The gin is to be bottled at 46% and Reynier said it is to retail for around £26.

"The Botanist" has landed!!

I ordered it direct from the Bruichladdich site (link here) and it arrived on Friday.

First impressions in a G&T using Qtonic are that it has a very complex and floral flavour, which is unlike anything I've tried before and very pleasant.

Going to try it in a martini tonight to check out what it's like.

Unlike many gins, this one does not hit you around the head with juniper. If you're after a complex floral and (sweet) herb flavoured drop, it's definitely worth a try.


Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four.
Unless there are three other people." Orson Welles
My eG Foodblog

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Ok, so preface this with the fact that I drink gin entirely in mixed drinks -- with tonic, club soda, etc. No martinis. And I'm certainly not a gin expert, and probably can't accurately describe what I love about it... But I have been totally converted from being primarily a Tanqueray drinker (which I preferred to Bombay and substantially preferred to Hendricks) to Citadelle. And several friends who are much more dedicated drinkers than I were also wowed by it. Here's their website with more information...

http://www.citadellegin.com/#/en/spiritueux/gin/citadelle

Has anyone else tried it?


Edited by Emily_R (log)

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