Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Dutch Cooking (2005-2006)


Recommended Posts

My non-snert contribution for today. :wink:

Upthread, I remember some people were asking Chufi questions about spices and the evolution of Dutch foodways etc. and also about Dutch cookbooks in English. I took this book out of the public library recently and it is FASCINATING. I think it was translated as part of a big Hudson River Valley History project on the one-time Dutch colony in that area.

The Sensible Cook

Dutch Foodways in the Old and the New World

Rose, Peter

With this book, Dutch-American authoress Peter Rose creates a window on Dutch colonial cooking as well as on the foodways in the 17th century Lowlands. In addition to historic recipes from the 300-year-old book ‘de Verstandige Kock’, Rose provides information on cooking methods, weights, measures, ingredients, and what kind of native and imported goods were used. This book adds fun to cooking, exploring 17th century recipes with the conveniences of the twentieth century.

(Rose has also collaborated on a new Dutch art/food/culture book called Matters of Taste, which also looks beautiful).

I just did a google and found these books along with the other three English Dutch cookbooks my mother and I have between the two of us (The Art of Dutch Cooking, Let's Go Dutch and Let's Go Dutch Again) here, if anyone wants a closer look.

http://www.godutch.com/catalogue/bookN.asp?id=445

That said, it's way more fun to cook from Chufi's recipes here anyway!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[...]I knew nothing about Dutch cuisine, apart from a vague thought that croquettes might appear somewhere on the menu.  I was hungry - tired - dirty and was quite looking forward to some croquettes.[...]

A thought off the top of my head: Could the Japanese have gotten korokke from the Dutch?

Michael aka "Pan"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A thought off the top of my head: Could the Japanese have gotten korokke from the Dutch?

FWIW, the korokke entry from the Japanese Wikipedia site mentions that it could have come from the French (croquette) or Dutch (kroket). However, it favors the French origin because korokke were already in Japan by 1903 based on historical references.

Wikipedia claims that croquettes did not make their way to the Dutch until 1909. Maybe Chufi can confirm the latter fact, as the Wikipedia entry does not give any supporting evidence.

EDITED TO CORRECT DATES

Edited by sanrensho (log)
Baker of "impaired" cakes...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A thought off the top of my head: Could the Japanese have gotten korokke from the Dutch?

I wrote a post on a tangentially related subject in the Japan forum quite recently. For anyone who wants to wade through it, the post is here (plus there are a few posts before and after that one). That was actually about whether korokke could have been introduced to Japan by the Portuguese, and the answer was: No, they could not have been.

Summarizing and changing the focus from the Portuguese to the Dutch, the period when the Dutch were present as the sole European traders in Nagasaki (late 1630s till the late 1800s) does not appear to coincide with the time when korokke became widespread in Western Europe.

However, in the late 1800s, there were Dutch, Portuguese, and French (as well as other foreign nationals) living in the so-called treaty ports in Japan - Nagasaki, Yokohama, Niigata, and Kobe. Korokke were almost certainly introduced to Japan around that time from one of these groups, but there do not seem to be records as to which group it was.

On the topic of Portia Smith's comment about Dutch cuisine not having any noticeable affect on Japanese cuisine: a couple of years back I was looking through the cookbook/food section in a public library in Japan, and one of the books was about the history of and recipes for candies in Japan in the pre-modern era (before the later 1800s). I could easily be recalling this incorrectly, but I think the author claimed that the technique and concepts of making hard candies had been learnt from the Dutch.

If I am recalling correctly, then, there would have been Dutch influence on Japanese food in this area at least. However, since sugar was an extremely expensive food that mostly had to be imported into Japan (in fact, contemporary Europeans complained that Japanese sweets were 'not sweet' because they used so little sugar), I suspect it would only have affected the food of the richest in Japanese society.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is incredibly informative and mouth - watering.  Thank you for all the hard work you have put in over the last few months.  I'm so incredibly appreciative of what you have done to show us all about 'everyday' Dutch food and baking. 

Thanks Portia! and thank you for sharing your memories of "holland in Japan". I am so sorry that when you were here, all you saw of my country was the trainstation and the Utrecht Dom through a window! If you're ever in Amsterdam again, please let me know and I'll take you out for the very best "broodje kroket" in the city! :smile:

I just did a google and found these books along with the other three English Dutch cookbooks my mother and I have between the two of us (The Art of Dutch Cooking, Let's Go Dutch and Let's Go Dutch Again) here, if anyone wants a closer look.

http://www.godutch.com/catalogue/bookN.asp?id=445

That said, it's way more fun to cook from Chufi's recipes here anyway!

Bunniver, thanks for that link, those books look very interesting. I'm going to see if my English bookstore can order them for me, especially the Sensible Cook.

And thanks for reporting back about the snert! Yes, it can get very very thick. I usually dilute it with a bit of water or stock when reheating, otherwise it can become a little bit too stodgy for modern tastes...

Wikipedia claims that croquettes did not make their way to the Dutch until 1909. Maybe Chufi can confirm the latter fact, as the Wikipedia entry does not give any supporting evidence.

the common story is that around 1909, a patissier from Amsterdam (a certain Mr. Kwekkeboom, there are still Kwekkeboom patisseries in The Netherlands) went to France and fell in love with the croquettes there. Their popularity over here has transformed them from an elegant lunch or dinner course to the ultimate fast snackfood: eaten on a soft white roll or just on it's own, in a snackbar, or on the street.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the topic of Portia Smith's comment about Dutch cuisine not having any noticeable affect on Japanese cuisine: a couple of years back I was looking through the cookbook/food section in a public library in Japan, and one of the books was about the history of and recipes for candies in Japan in the pre-modern era (before the later 1800s). I could easily be recalling this incorrectly, but I think the author claimed that the technique and concepts of making hard candies had been learnt from the Dutch. 

If I am recalling correctly, then, there would have been Dutch influence on Japanese food in this area at least. However, since sugar was an extremely expensive food that mostly had to be imported into Japan (in fact, contemporary Europeans complained that Japanese sweets were 'not sweet' because they used so little sugar), I suspect it would only have affected the food of the richest in Japanese society.

Anzu that's interesting about the candy!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the common story is that around 1909, a patissier from Amsterdam (a certain Mr. Kwekkeboom, there are still Kwekkeboom patisseries in The Netherlands) went to France and fell in love with the croquettes there. Their popularity over here has transformed them from an elegant lunch or dinner course to the ultimate fast snackfood: eaten on a soft white roll or just on it's own, in a snackbar, or on the street.

Fascinating. The irony is that Japanese bakeries commonly sell (potato) croquettes on rolls, as a sandwich drizzled with tonkatsu or similar sauce!

http://gourmet.yahoo.co.jp/gourmet/images/P/E900306_P_5.jpg

Edited by sanrensho (log)
Baker of "impaired" cakes...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, I think that this is a uniquely Dutch tradition, but somebody please correct me if I'm wrong!

In the Netherlands, when you turn fifty, it is said that you "see Abraham" (for women: Sarah). (referring to the bibletext, John 8:57 where it is said to Jesus: "you are not yet 50, yet you claim to have seen Abraham?"

You are either presented with a lifesize ugly doll sitting in your frontlawn for your birthday, or (more traditional) you are given an "Abraham" or Sarah in the shape of a very large cookie. This is similar to the gevulde koeken I made upthread: buttery pastry with an almond paste filling.

No, I'm not fifty yet :biggrin: but my husband is, and he received this today:

gallery_21505_1968_26582.jpg

the wineglass is there to give you a sense of the size of this thing.

Now we just have to eat it all... :shock:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's very interesting. Do you know the history of this tradition? Here in the mid-western U.S., you are more likely to get a bunch of black balloons declaring that you are "Over the Hill". The cookies sound much better.

April

One cantaloupe is ripe and lush/Another's green, another's mush/I'd buy a lot more cantaloupe/ If I possessed a fluoroscope. Ogden Nash

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems it has long been a reginal tradition, especially in parts of the province Noord Holland. Not clear how far back this tradition goes though.

It became popular all over the country since 1959, which was the year (then) queen Juliana turned fifty. A local bakery presented her with an Abraham (at that time, both men and women got an Abraham).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, I think that this is a uniquely Dutch tradition, but somebody please correct me if I'm wrong!

In the Netherlands, when you turn fifty, it is said that you "see Abraham" (for women: Sarah). (referring to the bibletext, John 8:57 where it is said to Jesus: "you are not yet 50, yet you claim to have seen Abraham?"

You are either presented with a lifesize ugly doll sitting in your frontlawn for your birthday, or (more traditional) you are given an "Abraham" or Sarah in the shape of a very large cookie. This is similar to the gevulde koeken I made upthread: buttery pastry with an almond paste filling.

No, I'm not fifty yet  :biggrin:  but my husband is, and he received this today:

the wineglass is there to give you a sense of the size of this thing.

Now we just have to eat it all...  :shock:

I wish I had one of those for David's 50th birthday. That is very cool. The birthday cake you made looks delicious. I love marscapone and lemon curd together. I bet it was heavenly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Klary, a question about your braised beef with butter. It calls for 2 cloves. Just to be sure I'm not mistaking this, do you mean the spice or garlic?

Thanks!

the spice!

garlic had no place in my grandmother's kitchen.. I don't think she ever touched it :biggrin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Klary, a question about your braised beef with butter. It calls for 2 cloves. Just to be sure I'm not mistaking this, do you mean the spice or garlic?

Thanks!

the spice!

garlic had no place in my grandmother's kitchen.. I don't think she ever touched it :biggrin:

Fabulous! Thank you. I'm doing this tomorrow, I think.

But how could your grandmother have lived without garlic?!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, I think that this is a uniquely Dutch tradition, but somebody please correct me if I'm wrong!

In the Netherlands, when you turn fifty, it is said that you "see Abraham" (for women: Sarah). (referring to the bibletext, John 8:57 where it is said to Jesus: "you are not yet 50, yet you claim to have seen Abraham?"

You are either presented with a lifesize ugly doll sitting in your frontlawn for your birthday, or (more traditional) you are given an "Abraham" or Sarah in the shape of a very large cookie. This is similar to the gevulde koeken I made upthread: buttery pastry with an almond paste filling.

No, I'm not fifty yet  :biggrin:  but my husband is, and he received this today:

gallery_21505_1968_26582.jpg

the wineglass is there to give you a sense of the size of this thing.

Now we just have to eat it all...  :shock:

gee and all i got was a "Birthday Survivor" ribbon to wear at work (hadn't found the right tiara then)

Klary - your cake looks like the white fruit cake we used to make though they were soaked in rum weekly from the time they were baked(late november) until eaten (around christmas).

Nothing is better than frying in lard.

Nothing.  Do not quote me on this.

 

Linda Ellerbee

Take Big Bites

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh my goodness... as if I needed another reason to put Amsterdam at the top of my travel list. Those broodje kroket look divine.

It reminds me of japanese katsu-sand, too. <drool>

Edited by ScorchedPalate (log)

Anita Crotty travel writer & mexican-food addictwww.marriedwithdinner.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Braised beef, Dutch style

Hi Chufi,

just wanted to thank you for this wonderful recipe! I hadn't really cooked beef before, but after seeing this dish here at eGullet, I just had to try the recipe last weekend. It was absolutely delicious and everyone around the table was very pleased. I will definitely make this dish again soon, it was so delicious!

Here's how it looked:

Chufi%20veiseliha.jpg

And here's my blog entry about preparing the dish:

Well Hung & Tender (or braised beef, Dutch style)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

here mine :wink:

gallery_23695_426_81435.jpg

tracey

The great thing about barbeque is that when you get hungry 3 hours later....you can lick your fingers

Maxine

Avoid cutting yourself while slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them while you chop away.

"It is the government's fault, they've eaten everything."

My Webpage

garden state motorcyle association

Link to comment
Share on other sites

here mine :wink:

gallery_23695_426_81435.jpg

tracey

This picture is almost obscene...I love seeing the bubbling butter around the hunks of meat. Wowza.

"We had dry martinis; great wing-shaped glasses of perfumed fire, tangy as the early morning air." - Elaine Dundy, The Dud Avocado

Queenie Takes Manhattan

eG Foodblogs: 2006 - 2007

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...