Hoagies, Cheesesteaks, Pork Italiano

[mrbigjas]

Do you think our society has become a bit obsessed with "the best"?  In Philly Weekly you have the "50 best bars", in Philly Mag the "50 best restaurants", in Philly Inq the "top 45 cheesesteaks", etc.  I find myself tiring of it. 

Yes of course there is some standard here, some objective level at which food can be judged, but at some point, isn't a bit like trying to name the "100 most beautiful people in the world" or the "100 greatest films"?  Subjectivity must enter into the picture.  Someone could genuinely prefer #3 to #1 or #18 to #4.  I suppose you could say, "yes, it's true, but so what, the writers are giving their subjective opinions."  The problem is, these opinions effect business, either emotionally or financially.  It just seems too specific, to decide that #1 is better than #2, or 3.  If given forty five cheesesteak joints, would it not be preferable to simply say ten of them are really great, ten are good, and fifteen are ok? 

So does anyone agree, or is my perspective skewed because I'm in the business?

←

i think you may be reading too much into it. a media outlet does a 'best of' piece, people talk about who is ranked #2 or #3 or whatever, meanwhile, what horror, classic respected business is ranked #10! who could imagine! then more people buy the magazine/newspaper/whatever to see what other sacrelige they might have committed.

meanwhile, the 'winners' on the best of list get to hang a piece of paper in their window that says BEST OF and people see it and come buy stuff. it's a win-win!

i mean, philadelphia magazine has the formula so down pat that they use it for every single issue. top doctors, top schools, top beach towns, top plastic surgeons, top mechanics, top apartment buildings, top grocery stores, top vets, top shoe repair... and then after they do that for 11 issues, they put out their 'best of philly' issue.

of course if you're looking at the larger issue of why people like ranked lists of things, that's further into the human psyche than i'm going here....

[MarketStEl]

Did everyone see this in today's Inky?

After 45 Cheesesteaks the Best Were....

←

"The unheralded Grey Lodge Pub"?

Okay, maybe unheralded for its cheesesteaks, but how can one possibly say an establishment named one of the "10 Best Bars in America" by Esquire magazine be "unheralded"?

Which makes for a good segue to...

Do you think our society has become a bit obsessed with "the best"?  In Philly Weekly you have the "50 best bars", in Philly Mag the "50 best restaurants", in Philly Inq the "top 45 cheesesteaks", etc.  I find myself tiring of it. 

Yes of course there is some standard here, some objective level at which food can be judged, but at some point, isn't a bit like trying to name the "100 most beautiful people in the world" or the "100 greatest films"?  Subjectivity must enter into the picture.  Someone could genuinely prefer #3 to #1 or #18 to #4.  I suppose you could say, "yes, it's true, but so what, the writers are giving their subjective opinions."  The problem is, these opinions effect business, either emotionally or financially.  It just seems too specific, to decide that #1 is better than #2, or 3.  If given forty five cheesesteak joints, would it not be preferable to simply say ten of them are really great, ten are good, and fifteen are ok? 

So does anyone agree, or is my perspective skewed because I'm in the business?

←

No, I think you may have a point, at least when dealing with matters of taste. Subjective values inevitably enter into the picture, and the fine gradations that may be evident to one person may be absent to another. Nonetheless, mrbigjas does nail the dynamic that produces these lists by the score month in and month out, and frankly, I think that any business losses a highly regarded place might suffer from not making it into the Top Five or Top 10 on a "Best" list will prove transitory, as the things that make it highly regarded haven't changed. Similarly, a place that is unexpectedly placed atop such a list may not enjoy permanently increased business unless it is truly an undiscovered or overlooked gem. (I doubt that Cosmi's is doing that much better for having won "Best Cheesesteak' in the 2004 PhillyMag roundup.)

Perhaps we could take this whole issue to a meta-level: "The 50 Best 'Best' Lists"?

[Rich Pawlak]

The Grey Lodge made Esquire's "50 Best BArs in America" list in 2006. And yes, to the mainstream media, like the Inky, it is still relatively unknown.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Rich Pawlak (log)

[wkl]

i've long thought "talk of the town" makes an excellent steak that somehow seems to fly under the radar screens of most media publications,interenet sites,etc. could be the location, i guess.

[MarketStEl]

i've long thought "talk of the town" makes an excellent steak that somehow seems to fly under the radar screens of most media publications,interenet sites,etc. could be the location, i guess.

←

Which is...?

[jmbrightman]

i've long thought "talk of the town" makes an excellent steak that somehow seems to fly under the radar screens of most media publications,interenet sites,etc. could be the location, i guess.

←

Which is...?

←

Broad Street, about 100 feet north of Packer Avenue.

[wkl]

it's also sitting under an underpass in the parking lot of a gas station. it's not terriblely inviting looking and the parking is a bit haphazard.

[Mummer]

While we're talking lists, Esquire recently listed their "Best Sandwiches in America."

The Philly ones were John's roast pork with provolone and Shank's & Evelyn's chicken cutlet.

Esky Sammies

[Bluehensfan]

While we're talking lists, Esquire recently listed their "Best Sandwiches in America."

The Philly ones were John's roast pork with provolone and Shank's & Evelyn's chicken cutlet.

Esky Sammies

←

Esquire made an addendum to the list of sandwiches in this month's issue (apparently based on readers letters). For the local establishments, I seem to remember that they added Tony Lukes.

Don't kill the messenger...

[Mummer]

While we're talking lists, Esquire recently listed their "Best Sandwiches in America."

The Philly ones were John's roast pork with provolone and Shank's & Evelyn's chicken cutlet.

Esky Sammies

←

Esquire made an addendum to the list of sandwiches in this month's issue (apparently based on readers letters). For the local establishments, I seem to remember that they added Tony Lukes.

Don't kill the messenger...

←

I'm not killing anybody, but it seems too soon for a follow-up. Sandwiches appeared in March and the April (current; Clooney cover) letters are about February content.

What are you remembering about Tony Luke's?

[Rich Pawlak]

I dont see an addedndum anywhere in April's issue.

[phungi]

Went to Sacko's Subs in Ventnor NJ last night. Split a Meatball Parm (left) and Chicken Cheesesteak Hoagie (right). The photo appears to focus better on my Diet Stewart's Black Cherry, but all I had was my cell phone camera. The meatball parm has excellent tasty meatballs with a perfect consistency (more likely to crumble than shoot out the back of the roll) and the chicken CS is 1/4" chicken breast grilled. Almost as good as White House, but close to as good as it gets. Yum!

[Bluehensfan]

I dont see an addedndum anywhere in April's issue.

←

I think it was in a little box next to the letters to the editor where they added a few to the list like the muffellatta at Centeral Grocery in NOLA. If I only knew where the issue went, I'd give you a more definitive answer!

[Rich Pawlak]

I've just received the latest issue of ESQUIRE today, and a large addendum has been added om p.24 of the mag. I cant believe not one mention of a Midwestern pork tenderloin sandwich, of which one letter to the Editor makes mention.

[Tim Dolan]

Which brings me to my next point: Dalessandro's has just been sold to new owners.  THIS I am extremely worried about.  I don't know much about the details behind the sale, other than that the new owners have said the want to introduce a few new items to the menu.  I was just in there last week and everything seemed as normal as ever, and one of my friends was there yesterday and told me the same thing.  But you know how fast that can change.  I don't care what they want to introduce, as long as they don't do a damn thing differently with their normal cheesesteak!

←

Some unfortunate news. I was in tonight and the new owners are beginning to foul things up. Word from some people who know is that there is a heavy case of "we're going to do things OUR way" with the new mangement. Four or five steak jockeys who have manned the grill for the past few years caught the axe over the weekend. There's a help wanted sign in the window. They ran out of black cherry soda due to not placing the normal order. The normal bottles of Tabasco sauce have been replaced by some truly terrible homemade hot sauce. Imagine if you started with a normal bottle of Tabasco, dumped out 2/3 of it then filled it back up with one part water and one part vinegar. It was gross. The "new items" that I heard are being added to the menu are shrimp and chicken fingers. I was thinking maybe cheese fries might make sense, but shrimp?

The pleasant folks that didn't get fired yet seemed to realize that the writing is on the wall. It's pretty sad. I mean, I understand that it's completely natural for new owners to want things set up how they want and bring in their own people, but you think that maybe, just maybe, they would realize that the people who've been working there for years have a pretty good idea of what's going on?

[Jeff L]

I hate when that happens, especially a place like this which does indeed make a remarkable cheesesteak. Why fix it if it isn't broken? Ego can lead to ruination of a great place. I'm not even a big cheesesteak fan, leaning more toward Philly's other lesser known (to outsiders anyway) roast pork but I must say I've enjoyed Dalessandro's version very much and am sorry to hear this news.

[KatieLoeb]

That sucks. Several years ago I had some minor surgery that required an overnight stay for observation at Roxborough Hospital. First thing I did when I was released the next day was go over to D'Alessandro's for a cheesesteak. I was starving! Hospital food is horrid and I was pretty hungry after eating jello and soup the night before. I really wanted something to sink my teeth into and a D'Alessandro's steak was truly a life affirming meal.

Sad that the new owners don't have the common sense to leave it alone and let the folks that know the score run it for them. Fools.

[Reignking]

They ran out of black cherry soda due to not placing the normal order.

←

I haven't lived in Philly since 1982, but I remember making special trips to beverage warehouses to stock up on Frank's Black Cherry Wishniak. Is that still around? Still a regional Philadelphian thing?

[MarketStEl]

You can still find Frank's sodas around, but not as widely as you could before the company was sold to an outfit in Elizabeth, NJ.

There is now a local boutique soda bottler called Hank's that makes a good Black Cherry Wishniak.

[Tim Dolan]

Very good news. Dalessandro's is back. The place was re-sold a few weeks ago, there is a new woman in there (presumably the new owner) who is very courteous and seems to want to take a good thing and make it better. I stopped by because I hadn't been there since I last posted and I wanted to see how things were going.

Some of the old employees were back, a few things looked spruced up, the fridge was stocked with the normal stuff but now also had Hank's sodas and Vitamin Water and some other, and gone was the ridiculously bad homemade hot sauce. The Tabasco was back, along with Crystal hot sauce if Tabasco isn't your thing, AND they had Sriracha, which I now know is fantastic on a cheesesteak.

My cheesesteak wasn't as sloppy as it was last time, it was packed with meat, and had the tell-tale sign of a great Deli's steak; the molten hot American cheese. Molten hot to the point that when you take a bite, the steam almost burns your lungs. This is how a cheesesteak is supposed to be.

Now we just need the Phils to pull out the final 3 and a half innings of Game 5 and all will be right with the world again. GO PHILS!!!

[rlibkind]

This is the Italian pulled pork from DiNic's. Hard to go for anything but the roast pork, but I forced myself. And I do not regret it! The meat was as tender as any barbeque I've had, yet the flavoring was distinctly Italian. I ordered it unadorned, just the meat in its tomato-inflected, garlicky sauce.

[Holly Moore]

Just once, try their brisket. A crazy-good sandwich. DiNic's is still my favorite pork sandwich, but now the choice is not as easy as it once was.

[rlibkind]

Italian Bread Bag?

Found this morning on the counter of DiNic's at the Reading Terminal Market: bags full of bread delivered from an Italian bakery, to be filled later in the day with roast pork, veal, sausages, roast beef, brisket, pulled pork, etc., etc., etc..

Not unusual, except for the printing on some of the bags. It's in Hebrew. Hard to explain how they came into the possession of Dante's, the bakery at 8th and Watkins that supplies DiNic's, other than the bag manufacturer had an overrun.

Still, the bags are suitable, since they advertise Agadir, small Israeli chain featuring burgers, but also roast beef, sausage (merguez and chorizo) sandwiches and an interesting array of salads and starters. And yes, you can get a cheeseburger: the chain is not kosher.

[Bluehensfan]

Italian Bread Bag?

Found this morning on the counter of DiNic's at the Reading Terminal Market: bags full of bread delivered from an Italian bakery, to be filled later in the day with roast pork, veal, sausages, roast beef, brisket, pulled pork, etc., etc., etc..

Not unusual, except for the printing on some of the bags. It's in Hebrew. Hard to explain how they came into the possession of Dante's, the bakery at 8th and Watkins that supplies DiNic's, other than the bag manufacturer had an overrun.

Still, the bags are suitable, since they advertise Agadir, small Israeli chain featuring burgers, but also roast beef, sausage (merguez and chorizo) sandwiches and an interesting array of salads and starters. And yes, you can get a cheeseburger: the chain is not kosher.

←

I noticed the bags too and asked Joe if they were changing bakeries for their bread. Dashed were my hopes of having pork and cheese on a certified kosher roll (yikes).

[Chris Hennes]

No photos of any of these, but they would be redundant to others in this topic anyway. I finally got off my lazy ass and hauled out to Pat's for a Wiz Wit last week. Steak is sliced too thick, IMO, and you gotta let it sit for a couple minutes to let the Wiz work its way into the sandwich. Color me unimpressed: so far, I prefer the steak at Apollo's in Bensalem... with Provolone, not Wiz. Heresy!

I also tried the peppers along with the rabe and prov on a DiNic's roast pork: I'm not a fan. DiNic's is just about perfect with rabe and prov, the peppers did nothing for me. I also gave their roast beef a go, with just the prov: not bad at all. I'll stick with the roast pork on most visits, but the beef might be a nice change of pace on occasion.