Diva Review

[McTee]

I'll put McTee on my signature as my middle name for a week and introduce myself to my customers for an entire dinner shift thus:

"Hi, my name is McTee. Can I start you off with some sparkling or still water?

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If you're referring to what I think you are....

that's what I call wit.

[chrisstearns]

I really was just wondering why Diva was the focus of an Alex Gill Review. It is the shoulder season, they are not focusing on showcasing a chef for an upcoming competition. They are just bumping along doing their thing, minding their own business. It just seemed an odd choice.

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Sorry, but I have to call bullshit on this.

"Shoulder season," "Friday before Thanksgiving" (someone else's comment), "upcoming competition" or whatever other excuses just don't hold water. The doors are open. You're taking people's money. Fair game. It's that simple.

I'm not commenting on the fairness or thoroughness of the review (one visit?).

But Gill had every right to write it.

[kontemporary]

The doors are open. You're taking people's money. Fair game. It's that simple.

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I have to say that does slightly echo Ms. Gill's concept of "If I don't pay for a meal, I won't review it." (which ended up being contrary to that philosophy) And it seems that her inability to pay the bill only escalated her impatience further.. but this may be a misunderstanding.

Would DIVA had done the same (offering a complimentary meal) for regular diners, if having seen a level of unhappiness with the way things are going?

Or was it just because it was a restaurant critic was dining there (which seemed to be the case anyways, with the amuses)? How do restaurant critics take this into consideration? (Perhaps Jamie or Andrew could explain..)

If I were to have a bad experience dining at a DIVA, being complimented the meal would signify to me that the establishment is aiming for a sense of reconciliation. They're asking for a second chance. I find it quite unprofessional per se. for her not to have returned to DIVA on a following visit. As in science experiments, multiple trials are a must.

In cases such as these, I find it most interesting when critics are critiquing other critics. It seems healthy in a way, to ensure a just opinion is formed. But sometimes you can just end up in a confusion.. and well I'll have to see for myself, what DIVA is really up to sometime.

[Ling]

"Shoulder season," "Friday before Thanksgiving" (someone else's comment), "upcoming competition" or whatever other excuses just don't hold water. The doors are open. You're taking people's money. Fair game. It's that simple.

I'm not commenting on the fairness or thoroughness of the review (one visit?).

But Gill had every right to write it.

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This was my first thought too. Perhaps the review wasn't fairly written, but I don't think the "shoulder season" means that a restaurant shouldn't be reviewed.

[Andrew Morrison]

It is hard to comprehend how Diva went down the drain in the eyes of critics.

I would argue that it hasn't.

Edited October 15, 2005 by editor@waiterblog (log)

[Zucchini Mama]

Would DIVA had done the same (offering a complimentary meal) for regular diners, if having seen a level of unhappiness with the way things are going?

Or was it just because it was a restaurant critic was dining there (which seemed to be the case anyways, with the amuses)? How do restaurant critics take this into consideration? (Perhaps Jamie or Andrew could explain..)

If I were to have a bad experience dining at a DIVA, being complimented the meal would signify to me that the establishment is aiming for a sense of reconciliation. They're asking for a second chance. I find it quite unprofessional per se. for her not to have returned to DIVA on a following visit. As in science experiments, multiple trials are a must.

In cases such as these, I find it most interesting when critics are critiquing other critics. It seems healthy in a way, to ensure a just opinion is formed. But sometimes you can just end up in a confusion.. and well I'll have to see for myself, what DIVA is really up to sometime.

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I have to agree with you, revasser. I think the evening went a bit pear-shaped in more ways than we know, and instead of keeping her head and using some graceful tactics to turn things around, Gill got increasingly embarrassed and frustrated. Instead of being discreet, tactful and going back for a revisit under different circumstances, she shouts "Off with their heads!" However, when heads roll, one has to be careful not to get too close to the guillotine.

All the more brioche for us.

[McTee]

I really was just wondering why Diva was the focus of an Alex Gill Review. It is the shoulder season, they are not focusing on showcasing a chef for an upcoming competition. They are just bumping along doing their thing, minding their own business. It just seemed an odd choice.

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Sorry, but I have to call bullshit on this.

"Shoulder season," "Friday before Thanksgiving" (someone else's comment), "upcoming competition" or whatever other excuses just don't hold water. The doors are open. You're taking people's money. Fair game. It's that simple.

I'm not commenting on the fairness or thoroughness of the review (one visit?).

But Gill had every right to write it.

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Personally, I understood Neil's comment to be in a different context. I believe that his point was that he didn't see a specific reason why it would be that a critic would choose to review Diva at this time, when usually the reviews happen at other times of the year, such as a new menu launch etc.

I believe that he was commenting that it just seems out of the pattern of a restaurant critic's usual choice of timing to review a restaurant, especially one that is as established as Diva is. I don't believe that Neil really expressed an opinion either way as to how he felt about the choice of timing at all, and did not put forth any "excuses" as to why Diva shouldn't have been reviewed.

Personally, I agree with chrisstearns in that if the doors are open and you're taking people's money, you're fair game, and I also agree with Neil that it just seems like odd timing.

Looks to me like other restauranteurs be warned: It could be you, any time of year, any day of the week.

[kurtisk]

I'd respect a reviewer's opinion much more if it was written with more constructive criticism and less maliciousness.

For me, I think this is what it all boils down to.

k.

[McTee]

I'd respect a reviewer's opinion much more if it was written with more constructive criticism and less maliciousness.

For me, I think this is what it all boils down to.

k.

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Excellent point. I find it difficult to give value to such scathing words. If the review was given respectfully, I think that more readers would give credit to it, but if a reviewer comes across as a nightmare guest, most will likely side with the establishment.

I know that I do.

[nwyles]

As a avid reader of Alex Gill's stuff, I can tell you that it is the first thing I go for on Friday morning ( pre-coffee ! )

I enjoyed the bloodbath known as Watermark and all of the stuff that followed here.

Lolita's, Fat Burger, Brown's, Nu and the like. She has my interest. I enjoy the "edge" to the review. This one just left me flat. I really hold true to the first question.

What was the point ?

There is two minutes I will never get back.

The doors are open, they are taking money, it is all fair game. I agree. I would never debate that.

There are so many things that could be written right now :

Chambar : One year after ! Is the apple still shiny.

Lumière : Ten years after opening.

Mistral : The move across the water.

Diner : The dynamo known as Heather has finally opened.

Coco Pazzo : What went wrong ! ( Ok, that would be a short column )

This one just left me flat. Diva, Hated it. So what. I am not rushing out and canceling my subscription or anything. I just expected something better

I have had ten times more enjoyment of the banter on this board than the actual article.

[transfattyacid]

If Diva is good or bad, to me it aint that much of a big deal. frankly i know it aint a place i would go, so i don`t. thus no comment on it`s quality / relevance / problems / or not.

The big deal about this article (and the ensuing eG thread), is that established dining rooms ARE being reviewed after an initial opening period.

Yes, it`s good to keep up with the new openings, but thats all you hear about in the local press. And it`s as if the media`s last year`s darlings just fell off the face of the earth. Bis Moreno being amongst one of many here that i could site as an example. Loads of reviews and hype then nothing . Not a whistle.

I for one would welcome more reviews of the "classic" household names in Vancouver dining. They deserve the attention for the commitment they have shown to the city.

[Daddy-A]

The big deal about this article (and the ensuing eG thread), is that established dining rooms ARE  being reviewed after an initial opening period.

Yes, it`s good to keep up with the new openings, but thats all you hear about in the local press. And it`s as if the media`s last year`s darlings just fell off the face of the earth.  Bis Moreno being amongst one of many here that i could site as an example. Loads of reviews and hype then nothing . Not a whistle.

I for one would welcome more reviews of the "classic" household names in Vancouver dining. They deserve the attention for the commitment they have shown to the city.

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Well said. The Vancouver food media (all four of them ) tend to be very "flavour of the month." So does this forum. That's something I hadn't taken into consideration when reading the review.

Probably because I was too busy, like Andrew, trying to figure out just who was doing the reviewing. Fair game is fair game and the honorable Ms. Gill (No reviews for comps? Good for you! ) is certainly entitled to write her impressions. In this case however, most of the impressions seemed to come from Ms. Morrow.

The whole review just left me feeling like I'd just witnessed a couple of bullies picking on the school chess team. To quote Neil "what was the point?"

A.

[Chocoholic]

Well I was going to pipe up and quote myself for a bit but Andrew beat me to it, many posts up.

That night was about 2 weeks ago now and I was joined by some executive style people who are let's say well off, well traveled and very well dined across the globe. I took them to Diva and like I said, the food was top notch. No complaints from either of them, in fact they were happily putting away the food and drinking the wine.

I will definitely repeat the experience any time. Diva still does it for me.

[jamiemaw]

There are so many things that could be written right now :

Chambar : One year after ! Is the apple still shiny.

Lumière : Ten years after opening.

Mistral : The move across the water.

Diner : The dynamo known as Heather has finally opened.

Coco Pazzo : What went wrong ! ( Ok, that would be a short column )

This one just left me flat. Diva, Hated it. So what. I am not rushing out and canceling my subscription or anything. I just expected something better

I have had ten times more enjoyment of the banter on this board than the actual article.

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Very interesting question to me--and rather near and dear. Actually Neil, I reviewed Mistral (with the backstory on the move) on September 16th in The Globe. I'm doing a short feature on Lumiere post the Charlie Trotter dinner. Cocco Pazzo we discussed (briefly) here. Chambar has tightened its service regime and motored through the summer without a patio.

But the question remains interesting nonetheless . . .

  transfattyacid  The big deal about this article (and the ensuing eG thread), is that established dining rooms ARE being reviewed after an initial opening period.

Yes, it`s good to keep up with the new openings, but thats all you hear about in the local press. And it`s as if the media`s last year`s darlings just fell off the face of the earth. Bis Moreno being amongst one of many here that i could site as an example. Loads of reviews and hype then nothing . Not a whistle.

I for one would welcome more reviews of the "classic" household names in Vancouver dining. They deserve the attention for the commitment they have shown to the city.

So your combinative question is a good one TFA and Neil. But first, a wee word about the realities of modern publishing--space. There's never enough. It is difficult to go back (especially in a monthly format) and pick up very many veteran restaurants with the frequency they deserve.

That's one important reason that we developed the concept of The Eating & Drinking Guide to BC three years ago. That periodical does recalibrate and update every important (12+/20) restaurant, every year. It's a leviathan task, but like you, we think it an important one.

This year there are 700+ restaurants (100 new additions), with many assigned stars under the new one, two and three star system. By the way, only five restaurants in the province qualified for three stars.

Thanks for your industrial perspective and thoughts, you two.

[nwyles]

I recognize the constraints of a monthly format that has to be submitted earlier than you would like to make deadline. So many things can happen in a month.

This is one of the reasons I like the Globe's new feature. Weekly. They get four point three kicks at the can to Jamie's one. "Classic restaurants" can be revisited, rekindling a love affair with an old favourite that deserves some attention ie : Bishop's

Let's see what interesting topic comes up next Friday !

P.S. Sorry Jamie, I must have missed the Mistral review but it certainly is on the list for an evening out real soon. Can you provide a link ?

Let's not forget Andrew ! Multi talented Wunderkind. He is everywhere ! This boy is five times a month but the delivery of the Westender in Yaletown is a little sporadic. I actually have to whip around the neighbourhood to find one, and sometimes it is raining and I really don't put that much effort in to going out in the rain. Does that make me a bad person ?

Edited October 15, 2005 by nwyles (log)

[transfattyacid]

Dear Mr Maw.

With response to your last statements.

I used to enjoy the way Fay Maschler would interject her esteemed column in the ' standard with a " revisited " section , a small space to extoll the virtues ( or not ) of an established business, and in doing so she helped to keep these places in the mindset of her readers and in turn painted a fuller picture of the cities restaurant culture.

Now, i`m not meaning to compare the Vancouver scene with that of London. its just a reference point for me, and an example of which i`m sure your aware Mr Maw.

(OT) With regard to Mistral. I believe not enough has been said about this place, here on eG or in the media . As it is in my eyes the most significant restaurant opening this year ( thus far ). (OT)

[jamiemaw]

Dear Mr Maw.

With response to your last statements.

I used to enjoy the way Fay Maschler would interject her esteemed column in the ' standard with a " revisited " section , a small space to extoll the virtues ( or not ) of an established business, and in doing so she helped to keep these places in the mindset of her readers and in turn painted a fuller picture of the cities restaurant culture.

[sNIP]

(OT) With regard to Mistral. I believe not enough has been said about this place, here on eG or in the media . As it is in my eyes the most significant restaurant opening this year ( thus far ). (OT)

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First, please call me Jamie, Mr. Transfattyacid.

Second, as you're probably aware, we intersperse our reviews with backround features on the busines of restaurateuring and other issues such as sustainability, liquor legislation, distribution, farming and fishing etc. that face the industry and our readers.

That being said, I am a huge fan of Fay Maschler. My (non-food) business career in finance has taken me many times to England over the past 25 years and I remain loyal to her judgement and also, importantly, to the fact that she is emotionally detached.

Of course she has a weekly platform. I don't always enjoy that pleasure, although time permitting, I have been fortunate to extend beyond Vancouver magazine half a dozen times this year for The Globe.

Perhaps most importantly for consistently excellent local restaurants though, are the articles that few locals ever see, often for overseas periodicals. They do tend to review the stalwart restaurants, because their editors and readers demand 'best of the best' lists. Additionally, we host many visiting food and travel journalists. The same rules typically apply.

But please also take into consideration what I mentioned upthread--our publication of the Vancouver magazine Eating & Drinking Guide to British Columbia. That provides updated reviews, ratings and other important information. It will be available on newstands next week for $7.95.

With regard to your last point, i.e. Mistral, upthread I mentioned that I wrote an extensive (and positive) review of the restaurant a month ago. It was in the Globe DISH section. Upon return visits, I decided I liked it so much that we ran an updated review, incorporating their new lunch service, for the November issue of Vancouver. That will be available to you in two weeks.

Jamie

Edited October 16, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[transfattyacid]

Dear Mr Maw.

With response to your last statements.

I used to enjoy the way Fay Maschler would interject her esteemed column in the ' standard with a " revisited " section , a small space to extoll the virtues ( or not ) of an established business, and in doing so she helped to keep these places in the mindset of her readers and in turn painted a fuller picture of the cities restaurant culture.

[sNIP]

(OT) With regard to Mistral. I believe not enough has been said about this place, here on eG or in the media . As it is in my eyes the most significant restaurant opening this year ( thus far ). (OT)

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First, please call me Jamie, Mr. Transfattyacid.

Second, as you're probably aware, we intersperse our reviews with backround features on the busines of restaurateuring and other issues such as sustainability, liquor legislation, distribution, farming and fishing etc. that face the industry and our readers.

That being said, I am a huge fan of Fay Maschler. My (non-food) business career in finance has taken me many times to England over the past 25 years and I remain loyal to her judgement and also, importantly, to the fact that she is emotionally detached.

Of course she has a weekly platform. I don't always enjoy that pleasure, although time permitting, I have been fortunate to extend beyond Vancouver magazine half a dozen times this year for The Globe.

Perhaps most importantly for consistently excellent local restaurants though, are the articles that few locals ever see, often for overseas periodicals. They do tend to review the stalwart restaurants, because their editors and readers demand 'best of the best' lists. Additionally, we host many visiting food and travel journalists. The same rules typically apply.

But please also take into consideration what I mentioned upthread--our publication of the Vancouver magazine Eating & Drinking Guide to British Columbia. That provides updated reviews, ratings and other important information. It will be available on newstands next week for $7.95.

With regard to your last point, i.e. Mistral, upthread I mentioned that I wrote an extensive (and positive) review of the restaurant a month ago. It was in the Globe DISH section. Upon return visits, I decided I liked it so much that we ran an updated review, incorporating their new lunch service, for the November issue of Vancouver. That will be available to you in two weeks.

Jamie

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Right you are Mr Maw , right you are.

[jamiemaw]

Right you are Mr Maw , right you are.

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No worries at all--happy to be of help. And you're right, I was kind of surprised that Mistral hasn't warranted more attention.

Have a good shift,

Jamie

Edited October 16, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[MightyMrQ]

Hello E-Gulleters,

Mr Kane has been kind enough to allow me to use his account here to remark at my total and utter disgust at the article I had the misfortune of reading.

At the invitation of Chef Henry I spent an evening of pure bliss at Diva last week. I had heard nothing but wonderful things and after my last course felt intoxicated with the magnificent flavor, presentation and spotless service i recieved.

I could not reccomend Diva highly enough and have been doing so to all of my patrons since the evening i walked out.

We can only hope that an article published in such a reputable newspaper, as vicous and poorly executed as this one, will garner the same sort of foul taste from the everyday reader as it has on these forums.

Mark Brand Chambar

[Junior]

Ray Henry is without a doubt one of the best chef's I've ever worked for and to this day he is the only chef, I call chef.

To read Ms. Gill's review, I think to myself; she was maybe somewhere else and/or mixed up her notes.

This is not the chef that I spent time with. This is a guy that bends over backwards to please all of the guests who walk through the door of the restaurant. He instilled in every cook that was in the brigade that we had to cook with excellance all the time. He also made sure that he spent time with each of us making sure that we could produce his expectations.

He taught, he cooked, and he showed us passion for the profession.

[FannyBay]

I have some thoughts on the Globe and Mail review but first my thoughts on Diva at the Met.

I dined there recently. I did not enjoy the experience and I really didn't enjoy the food. I found the suggested wine pairing by the waiter best as an increase to the cheque average, and therefore his tip (when I asked to see a list to make my own choices I noticed he had, in every case, recommended the most expensive, and often the least appropriate, wine by the glass). The food was uninspired, though I suppose quite well executed, however every dish displayed that rather annoying Nike style "swish" of some root vegetable puree that seems to be on all the restaurant plates right now.

But I also want to say that I paid attention to the food, I paid attention to the menu descriptions and the ingredients (and consequently knew when the wrong wine was suggested), all which I expect a restaurant reviewer to do, and which it appears Gill does not.

So…being in the biz, I sniffed around. I understand from the staff that when Gill was "dining" at Diva she constantly left the table to go outside and smoke (which I understand she routinely does), which is why her meal took so long, and she got rather drunk (which I understand she also routinely does). My guess is she took the menu home and wrote her review based on a rather cloudy memory and some kind of need to be the next Joanne Kates, best known for her ability to write unkind remarks, rather then her ability to properly and fairly review a restaurant.

Gill may well have had a point in a number of issues, and there are some things she says that I agree with, however her mandate seems to be established before she sets foot in a place. I don't respect her reviews and am glad they only appear in the BC edition of the paper where they can do little damage.

[Bubbalicious]

Ate at Diva recently for lunch. Quite honestly dissapointed with the food. (Wrote about it here.)

Read about Gill's experience at Diva recently and was just as disappointed. It is not responsible as a journalist to write a review of a restaurant based on one visit. If that were real food journalism than the G&M may as well publish a page of eGullet and save themselves a little cash.

I love reading restaurant reviews. The little ones in the New Yorker and the Wednesday Dining section of the NYT are my favourites. These are comprehensive reviews based on a few anonymous visits. I also enjoy Mr. Maw's writing, although I know firsthand that the dining experience of the staff of Western Living and Vancouver Magazine is often more than enhanced, so I read these articles with a couple of grains of salt.

I am a little embarassed and more than perplexed that one of our national newspapers would allow Gill's slapdash reviews to be published. To quote Gill, this seems a little "backwater." Maybe the G&M will step it up in ten years or so and give us some real food journalism, not just a tidbit of Mr. Maw now and then.

Am I going to cancel my subscription? Nope. Do I respect Ms. Gill's writing? Nope. Am I still gonna read her articles? Yup, but with more than a shaker of salt and more as a little background info into new and interesting restaurants. Not as a serious review of food/service/ambience. I will leave that to the pros on Egullet.

[chrisstearns]

Do I respect Ms. Gill's writing?  Nope.    Am I still gonna read her articles?  Yup, but with more than a shaker of salt and more as a little background info into new and interesting restaurants.  Not as a serious review of food/service/ambience.  I will leave that to the pros on Egullet.

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Pros? Excuse me?

You had me right up to your last sentence. I find it curious that you excoriate Gill for the things you do (a review based on one visit, lack of long food pedigree), then go on to say that you appreciate just the same qualities of writers on eGullet, home of the amateur one-vist review. You can't have it both ways.

Some obvious truths about Gill's Friday Globe and Mail reviews:

1. She reviews from a consumer, not a foodie, perspective. Her reactions as a consumer are as relevant as yours or mine would be if we were dining in the restaurant.

2. She likes to gossip and stir the pot (her reviews run alongside an industry gossip section, after all).

3. She is not big on sacred cows, and is not consumed with concern for bruised feelings. She knows that honesty makes for a good review. She also knows (perhaps better) that brutal honesty makes for good copy. Does she step over the line in an effort to make her reviews more "punchy?" Maybe. The Diva review reads a bit like a car wreck made into a train wreck.

[kurtisk]

...Her reactions as a consumer are as relevant as yours or mine would be if we were dining in the restaurant.

Except she has a hell of a lot more influence... And, really, I don't know many people (eGulleters included) who would be so flat-out insulting.

btw- has anyone here who's really fired up actually sent a letter to the editor?

-edited to ponder that last question

Edited October 16, 2005 by kurtisk (log)