Restaurant/Bar Annoyances

[Thanks for the Crepes]

Our municipality passed an ordinance during the drought a few years ago limiting water service in restaurants to request only as well. I'm not sure if it's ever been repealed although we are well out of that drought. The one that limits outdoor watering has remained in place through several serious floods. So at least here, the law has not very much to do with fairness or logic.

 

I noticed at the Turkish restaurant, they bring out water to every table first thing, and the Indian resto has always done this, ordinance or no. Most of their clientele are Indian and everyone drinks water. They must not have the widespread soda culture in India that we have here.

[gfweb]

I'm with @JoNorvelleWalker I recall the whole deal. No automatic water due to conservation measures in NYC and NJ. 

[MetsFan5]

4 hours ago, gfweb said:

I'm with @JoNorvelleWalker I recall the whole deal. No automatic water due to conservation measures in NYC and NJ. 

 

At that time I was working at both the ala carte and buffet at The Manor, as well as the Highlawn Pavilion and Rod's. None of them acknowledged such laws. And none of them have since. My husband proposed to me in the paulor cars at Rod's and we had our wedding at the Madison Hotel. Water was always a given. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.  Wonder if there is a reward for turning you in?  Have to check the statute of limitations.

 

As they say in New Jersey*:  "Crime doesn't pay but we do!"

 

 

*at least according to the poster in our library.

 

[Thanks for the Crepes]

I wouldn't worry about it on these kind of unreasonable laws as a server on the water issue, at least not much. Our city didn't deploy "water cops" Eliot Ness-style or not (although, I found that amusing JNW) on either the outdoor watering issue or the automatic water at restos. They depend for even reporting on disgruntled neighbors at the home and employees at the the restaurants. In neither case, even if caught, I don't think the "perpetrator" was up for being drawn and quartered. They could be fined, though, and I tend to think even that is ludicrous especially when we have been under flood conditions.

 

It's all about making the water treatment cheaper for the government, so people don't waste it. BUT, our municipality raised rates when people started conserving, during the drought as asked, so they (the government) would continue to get the same revenue.  Rates haven't been lowered even with flooding. Surprise, Surprise, Surprise! /Gomer Pyle

 

 

[MetsFan5]

Yea for some reason I think the owners of the establishments I worked in wouldn't be worried about the water police! 

[Kim Shook]

I remember being at a Fridays once for a lunch with co-workers.  We were refused lemon in our water because "we could have used the sugar on the table to make free lemonade".  

[liuzhou]

One thing that drives me crazy in restaurants here in China is that wait staff pounce on you the minute you sit down, hand you huge menus (or multiple menus) then hover centimetres from your face with pen poised to write down your choice. I tell them to go away and give me time to read the damned thing, but that option has been removed from their DNA.

 

When they get bored of waiting, which takes about 20 seconds, they start making suggestions, pointing at random items on the menu. I'm certain they don't even know what they are pointing at. In fact, I know they don't. One young woman did that, I snapped the menu closed and asked her what she had recommended. She had no idea.

 

I find it highly intimidating, but just part of the culture. Chinese friends don't even notice, or even expect it. Many consider it rude to hand you the menu then go away until you have read it.

[Thanks for the Crepes]

Wow! @liuzhouI would have a really hard time with this server behavior as well.

 

I love reading menus, poring over them. Thank God and Tim Berners Lee that I can now do that in the comfort of my own home thanks to the internet, for most restaurants here. I also go to the Yelp reviews and look at photos as well as reviews for even a restaurant I've visited many times before. I will not even tell you how many hours, sometimes over multiple days I spend doing this before a visit to a restaurant. I know it's not normal, but whatcha gonna do? It's all foreplay which should be long and leisurely. This allows me to act more like a normal person who can walk into an unknown restaurant and decide what to order in about five minutes, which is the norm here. And no, that is not with your server hovering over you. I despise that. Cultural difference I'd have a really hard time adjusting to, but very interesting, as usual.

 

Not sure, but I wonder if most Chinese restaurants have caught on to the advantage of having a web presence and posting their menus and pricing? If not, that would certainly make it much  worse for someone like me.

 

This leads me to another pet pea (I know it's wrong, but like it anyway  *insert picture of cute little pea with a grumpy face*) . That is restaurants who don't include pricing on their online menus. From the high end ones with an attitude of "if you have to ask, you can't afford to eat here, silent sniff" to chains which not only insist you share personal info, but start placing an order before you can learn what their food will cost you. Grrrr!

[liuzhou]

5 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

I wonder if most Chinese restaurants have caught on to the advantage of having a web presence and posting their menus and pricing?

 

I don't know any restaurants here that have a web presence. Restaurants in China are very secretive about their menus. They don't even post them outside the premises in the UK, most are required to by law) and are very careful that no one steals one. They seem to believe that some competitor will pinch their ideas (despite most menus  being very similar, anyway).

 

I agree with you that online menus without prices are very irritating.

[Shalmanese]

On 10/15/2017 at 8:45 PM, liuzhou said:

 

What?

 

It is illegal to serve unsolicited water, but OK to serve solicited water?

 

If true, (which I doubt)  it is insane,

 

California Restaurants and Bars Now Prohibited From Serving Water Sans Request

[JoNorvelleWalker]

53 minutes ago, Shalmanese said:

 

California Restaurants and Bars Now Prohibited From Serving Water Sans Request

 

I see no problem with this.  The Californians chickened out on the blue gloves though.

 

[Thanks for the Crepes]

12 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I see no problem with this.  The Californians chickened out on the blue gloves though.

 

 

Is this what you mean? If so, I don't see what "blue" has to do with it.

 

As a person who has a real aversion to wearing gloves in the kitchen with the exception of processing hot chilies and I tolerate it as a necessary evil even then, I can understand why restaurant employees don't want to wear them. Also, I've read many accounts of gloved employees handling cash, then touching food, handling raw and then cooked food. Gloves are no substitute for good hygiene habits. It's not a magic fix, and it punishes people who do follow good practices in the kitchen.

 

I have to agree with the California's governor call on that one. I think these glove laws are passed by people who never even worked in a kitchen at home, and I don't agree with them. FWIW we have the glove law in NC, and I don't think for a minute it improves restaurant food safety. Might even degrade it, as the narrow profit margins in restos encourage management to instruct employees to always be gloved in case of surprise health inspections, but discourage frequent glove changes when transitions occur. 

 

The glove laws might work better in hospitals with their big profit margins. I think hospitals kill more people here than restaurants do.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

"Two by two, hands of blue."

 

I feel strongly about this.  We shall have to disagree.

 

I recall the best sub (hoagie, zeppelin, etc) shop in the area had the cashier making the sandwiches.  She apologized that there was no sink to wash her hands.  To me this is beyond revolting.

 

This was before the New Jersey glove law.  Here patrons can request a glove change.  Gloves are cheap compared to losing a customer or making someone sick.

 

Your mileage may vary but I buy my blue gloves in large quantity.  And no plans to visit California.

 

[liuzhou]

37 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

"Two by two, hands of blue."

 

I feel strongly about this.  We shall have to disagree.

 

I recall the best sub (hoagie, zeppelin, etc) shop in the area had the cashier making the sandwiches.  She apologized that there was no sink to wash her hands.  To me this is beyond revolting.

 

This was before the New Jersey glove law.  Here patrons can request a glove change.  Gloves are cheap compared to losing a customer or making someone sick.

 

Your mileage may vary but I buy my blue gloves in large quantity.  And no plans to visit California.

 

 

Is it legal there to have no hand wash facilities in a food preparation situation? It would certainly have the place instantly shut down and the owners fined, or in extreme cases imprisoned,  in the UK.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

Is it legal there to have no hand wash facilities in a food preparation situation? It would certainly have the place instantly shut down and the owners fined, or in extreme cases imprisoned,  in the UK.

 

At the time it may have been legal.  I'm not sure.  This was pre glove law.  The employees did use hand sanitizer I noted.  In any event I chose not to eat from there.

 

[gfweb]

6 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

Is it legal there to have no hand wash facilities in a food preparation situation? It would certainly have the place instantly shut down and the owners fined, or in extreme cases imprisoned,  in the UK.

Nope

[lindag]

7 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

 

I recall the best sub (hoagie, zeppelin, etc) shop in the area had the cashier making the sandwiches.  She apologized that there was no sink to wash her hands.  To me this is beyond revolting.

 

 

 

For this we need an 'Aaack' emoji.

Surely they had a toilet, no?  But no sink?

Beyond disgusting.

Edited October 18, 2017 by lindag (log)

[curls]

17 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

"Two by two, hands of blue."

 

I feel strongly about this.  We shall have to disagree.

 

I recall the best sub (hoagie, zeppelin, etc) shop in the area had the cashier making the sandwiches.  She apologized that there was no sink to wash her hands.  To me this is beyond revolting.

 

This was before the New Jersey glove law.  Here patrons can request a glove change.  Gloves are cheap compared to losing a customer or making someone sick.

 

Your mileage may vary but I buy my blue gloves in large quantity.  And no plans to visit California.

 

Thanks for the Firefly reference.  Thought that was what you were doing earlier.  ;-)

[KennethT]

On 10/17/2017 at 12:59 AM, liuzhou said:

One thing that drives me crazy in restaurants here in China is that wait staff pounce on you the minute you sit down, hand you huge menus (or multiple menus) then hover centimetres from your face with pen poised to write down your choice. I tell them to go away and give me time to read the damned thing, but that option has been removed from their DNA.

 

When they get bored of waiting, which takes about 20 seconds, they start making suggestions, pointing at random items on the menu. I'm certain they don't even know what they are pointing at. In fact, I know they don't. One young woman did that, I snapped the menu closed and asked her what she had recommended. She had no idea.

 

I find it highly intimidating, but just part of the culture. Chinese friends don't even notice, or even expect it. Many consider it rude to hand you the menu then go away until you have read it.

I've see this too, in Beijing, Vietnam and Thailand.  The first few times I experienced it it drove me crazy - I felt like I was under the gun to make my choices as the server stood there anxiously waiting for me to so something.  It was even funnier when in Beijing and I used the Waygo translation app to translate the menus into Pinyin and English - you had to scan each line and then wait a second for the response to come up...  Doing this on a menu with about 100 lines was hilarious.  Now, I try to learn how to say "please come back in a few minutes" to give me time to peruse before the standoff... which sometimes does and sometimes does not work...  In Vietnam, I learned to say "I'm not ready" and then it's easy enough to flag them down later by saying "em, oi!!!" really loudly to get their attention...

[MetsFan5]

On 10/18/2017 at 2:34 AM, liuzhou said:

 

Is it legal there to have no hand wash facilities in a food preparation situation? It would certainly have the place instantly shut down and the owners fined, or in extreme cases imprisoned,  in the UK.

 

 

No no it isn't legal in NJ to not have a proper hand washing station. 

[MetsFan5]

And what's this glove law? For fast food establishments? Certainly not for fine dining or even any place that makes food to order in a restaurant establishment v. a fast food one. 

 

I'd prefer NOT to see gloves as well. It reeks of ignorance of sanitation to me. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by MetsFan5 (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 2:18 AM, MetsFan5 said:

And what's this glove law? For fast food establishments? Certainly not for fine dining or even any place that makes food to order in a restaurant establishment v. a fast food one. 

 

I'd prefer NOT to see gloves as well. It reeks of ignorance of sanitation to me. 

 

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwifw8fq2ojXAhXE5oMKHVBwBJ8QFggyMAI&url=ftp%3A%2F%2Fwww.njleg.state.nj.us%2F20022003%2FS1000%2F935_I1.PDF&usg=AOvVaw1bUExJ6lF0LftoxM33obSe

 

 

Edit:  "For the purposes of this section, food establishment includes a restaurant and any other place used in the production, preparation, manufacture, packing, storage or handling of food intended for sale or distribution for human consumption."

 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by JoNorvelleWalker
clarification (log)

[quiet1]

When we visited SF recently I found it quite annoying that I could ask for water but getting refills was like pulling teeth. We were walking around extensively in the summer, we needed hydration!

 

It also annoys me when restaurants of a certain quality can't or won't do any special requests.  I'm not talking about a tasting menu, but above chains where no one is actually cooking anything in the back, it's all pre-prepped. My mom has pretty strict sodium requirements and some places use a LOT of salt normally. It shouldn't be a huge challenge to get the waitstaff to find out what protein the kitchen could do without tons of salt. (There is usually some kind of simply grilled/baked item that could just have the seasoning held before cooking and the sauce brought on the side. Obviously stuff that is marinaded or braised or otherwise has a long cooking or prep time can't be un-seasoned.) Some places have been quite exceptionally good, too, though. You can usually tell it's going to be good when the waitperson goes off to talk to the kitchen without getting confused about the request twice first, and when they promptly come back with questions and suggestions from the chef. Occasionally the chef basically makes up a dish for her on the spot, and while that is above and beyond what we expect (they are busy and prepped to make certain things) it really makes my mom's meal as she gets something truly tasty and it feels more like a 'normal' restaurant experience for her. (Go out, have a nice environment, have a nice meal, enjoy the company you're with.)